New releases for Dark Angels

[Grand Master Raziel]

I wish GW had made this decision before they created the plastic Scouts.  The old Scout Bikers with pewter parts had some cool bolters with drum magazines and forward pistol grips.

[Shadowseer]

I dunno why people get so worked up about scout bikers.

 

First of all, it's a new option for the army, so yay.

 

Secondly, can you imagine a Space Marine who can't ride a bike? They teach them to pilot a Thunderhawk while still in scouts!

 

And lastly, you have all sorts of characters riding bikes - I can't possibly imagine they took a class after becoming Chaplains and Librarians, and not during the hypnoinduction in the 10th company.

[SinnerBeta]

@shabbadoo

 

Wrong. You can see my previous post in this thread for more.

 

@Shadowseer

 

There are fitting options and there are options that don't fit. Dark Angels don't get say, Tyranic War Veterans because it's not their option and they have their option.

 

And I don't understand how you can't see them learning such specialized skills as this process makes more sense. Can I get the source on the Thunderhawk bit because this is the first time hearing it ?

[Shadowseer]

@SinnerBeta piloting is mentioned in 'Pharos' by Haley.

And what's so special about riding a _motorcycle_? Even some people can manage it, not just superhuman soldiers.

[Helycon]

@SinnerBeta piloting is mentioned in 'Pharos' by Haley.

And what's so special about riding a _motorcycle_? Even some people can manage it, not just superhuman soldiers.

I can! Not sure if I could shoot a gun from it whilst riding, but I'll give it a go and see what happens! :P

[SinnerBeta]

@Shadowseer

Ah, Black Library, so not canon, that's explains it and shoots it down as an argument.

 

There's nothing *special* about riding bikes, which part of my point. What's "special" about *them* in this case is that all bikes go to Ravenwing and officers. As there's nothing special about riding them, you don't need to have it incorporated in the basic training and can pick it up later.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Makes sense we have Scout Bikers because that's where it starts to show who has affinity with bikes and who hasn't. While everyone can ride, some can ride better and those are the potential candidates for the Ravenwing. Well at least t makes more sense to have them then not having them because we already have more bike options.

Plus rule of cool: a RW army with a Scout bike detachment... those scout dreaming of one day ridding Raven clad makes a great story.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

@shabbadoo

 

Wrong. You can see my previous post in this thread for more.

 

Not wrong. You've just been stating an opinion, with not much more basis on canon than any other source. 

Yes. DA did not have access to scout bikers so far, but it's pretty funny to assume that marines just learn to drive when someone decides they're going to the RW.

 

A difference in opinion is fine. But that doesn't make other people's opinion on this matter "wrong".

Me, I'm indifferent about scout bikers, thunderfire cannons, and whatnot. But I can see a case made for all these things being available. The Rock's armories are deep indeed, and the training is comprehensive.

 

@Shadowseer

Ah, Black Library, so not canon, that's explains it and shoots it down as an argument.

 

Everything is canon, despite what you may wish. Furthermore, the codex and yes, even BL writers define what's canon, not you or your preferences.

Is it a retcon? Maybe. Is it possible? Definitely. Is it stupid? Depends on your opinion.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Cpt. Bannockburn

[FlamingDeth]

Scouts don't get training in terminator armor or anything else that requires a black carapace because they don't have one yet. Bikes are different, and I don't see someone getting promoted to the Ravenwing, one of the most elite mounted forces in the galaxy, without starting with the basic training elsewhere first. This is going to have to be an agree to disagree thing though because I'm getting a defensive vibe, it's derailing the post, and whether you choose to take a stand on the hill of scout bikers being a fluff abomination or not, I'm going to welcome them into my army because I have the models already and the only time I've been able to field a remotely acceptable 10th co list was in 6th edition.

[SinnerBeta]

@Cpt. Bannockburn

 

You're free to have an opinion and if the discussion is about something subjective like tastes both people can be right like one person liking chocolate and the other vanilla - I'm not arguing that people can't like the change. But if you're discussing something that's not subjective, one person is bound to be wrong - if you think that this is how it should be then I say that you are wrong, same as if you said that earth is flat, because facts aren't the same as opinions. Despite you saying it's "your opinion", you tell me I can't tell someone they're "wrong" which ironically boils down to telling me that I'm wrong, even if you try not to use that word.

 

Moreover, google "is black library canon" for quotes directly from BL staff, such as:

 

"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it." - so not canon. Unless they're confirmed to be 100% canon, or even 90%, it's as good as 100% not canon because you can point to any detail in BL and say "not canon". So not only I can point at BL and say not canon, I can point at the "scouts trained for piloting thunderhawks" and call *extra* not canon as Chapters that aren't Dark Angels leave pilot training to Techmarines according to codex.

Edited November 27, 2017 by SinnerBeta

[Berzul]

Did you guys see the sneak peak for the Blood Angels? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/27/chapter-focus-blood-angels/

[Komodo]

Funny thing, I went out to check scout bikers and they are gone from the web site!

[Sete]

Eh scout bikers or not it's all the same. Primaris is the way.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

@Cpt. Bannockburn

 

You're free to have an opinion and if the discussion is about something subjective like tastes both people can be right like one person liking chocolate and the other vanilla - I'm not arguing that people can't like the change. But if you're discussing something that's not subjective, one person is bound to be wrong - if you think that this is how it should be then I say that you are wrong, same as if you said that earth is flat, because facts aren't the same as opinions. Despite you saying it's "your opinion", you tell me I can't tell someone they're "wrong" which ironically boils down to telling me that I'm wrong, even if you try not to use that word.

 

Moreover, google "is black library canon" for quotes directly from BL staff, such as:

 

"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it." - so not canon. Unless they're confirmed to be 100% canon, or even 90%, it's as good as 100% not canon because you can point to any detail in BL and say "not canon". So not only I can point at BL and say not canon, I can point at the "scouts trained for piloting thunderhawks" and call *extra* not canon as Chapters that aren't Dark Angels leave pilot training to Techmarines according to codex.

 

First of all, you don't state facts. You state your opinion, because there are no hard facts on the issue. You state what you'd like to be facts, but it is still your opinion. A valid one, but not less or - for that matter - more than that. 

 

Secondly, it's interesting how you confuse truth and rumours with canon. The exact quote you offer says it very well. Everything in BL is canon. It is not necessary truth, but that doesn't make it any less canon for the wider universe. We don't need to discuss Obi-Wan Sherlock Clouseau here, but everything stated in every novel, and more importantly the codex is canon. Just not necessarily the truth, since narrators and storytellers may be unreliable, embellish, or even outright tell lies.

 

That's both the weakness and strength of the 40k universe: On the one hand, you don't get the luxury of true and factual coverage, but on the other - and this is why your outright statement of "facts" falls short - it leaves everyone free to imagine their dudes and their stories the way they like it. AKA head-canon

 

It also makes discussions and arguments somewhat frustrating, especially if one side insists on being factual and everything else being bad wrong fun.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited November 27, 2017 by Cpt. Bannockburn

[exsulis81]

There's nothing *special* about riding bikes, which part of my point. What's "special" about *them* in this case is that all bikes go to Ravenwing and officers. As there's nothing special about riding them, you don't need to have it incorporated in the basic training and can pick it up later.

 

That isn't exactly true,  there are people that ride motorcycles,  and then those that can RIDE motorcycles.  Those that truely have the talent to ride can do some insane corners,  and stunts.  A few years back,  i was watching a race,  the leader literally had his shoulder on the ground but didn't crash out of a corner.  That is the kind of thing that someone with amazing talent can do. 

 

As to the whole it issue,  we had regular bikers way back in the day.  JJ took them out in the 3.0 & 4.0 codexes, and we have been lacking them ever since. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by exsulis81

[SinnerBeta]

@Cpt. Bannockburn

 

Not only did I state facts, here's another one: "I like this changed and want scouts to have bikes." is an opinion with which I will disagree with because of my own, but won't call a fact. "DA scouts should have bikes." is a statement and is, in fact, wrong. You can argue that it's an opinion. You can argue that "a kidney is not somewhere you should put your combat knife" is an opinion, but it's a fact.

 

Going back to BL, saying "it's canon but probably not true" is as good as saying something is not canon, which is the point you seem to have skipped. Also, I do not appreciate your thinly veiled sarcastic insult about how I "confuse rumors with canon", because that's what that comment was.

 

If something is wrong then it's wrong. You can get frustrated about it just as you can frustrated when throwing a rubber ball in the air and gravity somehow not listening to your arguments. If you have an opinion and like the scouts ? I disagree but it's fine. You want to argue against facts and say DA scouts *should* have bikes ? I will reply to point out that you're wrong.

[G8Keeper]

I think this argument has been done to death now guys. Shall we move on?

[exsulis81]

@g8keeper there are merits to the old comparison of regular bikers to Ravenwing bikers.  

 

I still have a few green bikers from back in the day. Primarily,  it was a body count advantage verses surviving with the jinx. Background wise it was based upon where the ranks of Ravenwing came from. 

[robofish7591]

I'm honestly excited about the new codex.  The blood angels preview on warhammer community was sounding pretty cool.  I don't doubt that ours is going to be pretty good too.  I still have some mk3 and 4 armor still on sprue as well as one of the raven wing battleforces to build too.... 

[G8Keeper]

I agree exsulis81 but the scout bike discussion is lookingto be circling the drain now.

[SinnerBeta]

Ok, no more bike scout discussion from me.

 

On the other hand, I'm very happy that BA are getting the Heresy-era terminator suits as it suggests our codex will get them too. Can't wait to diversify my Deathwing force

Edited November 27, 2017 by SinnerBeta

[StormLion]

I'm honestly excited about the new codex.  The blood angels preview on warhammer community was sounding pretty cool.  I don't doubt that ours is going to be pretty good too.  I still have some mk3 and 4 armor still on sprue as well as one of the raven wing battleforces to build too....

 

Me too, though more from a diversifying primaris gear. What gives me hope, specifically, is the intercessors sergeant with a chain sword. If the BAs get that, maybe my guys can get some options.

[robofish7591]

Yes, I am looking forward to converting up some cataphractii and tartaros deathwing.  A cataphractii deathwing captain would be brutal too.

 

@StormLion

My primaris Blades of Vengeance will probably get some reinforcements too, you have to let the successors have some fun as well 

Edited November 27, 2017 by robofish7591

[Cpt_Reaper]

Wait...so my repeated posting of my "obligatory wishlist" worked?

 

Now the question: If we have Deathwing Terminators and Deathwing Knights, will Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators be separate choices or will we be able to take our current Deathwing choices as heresy-era suits?

 

Because if my Cataphractii Knights are a thing...ooooh boy

[Matt_149]

Looking at the blood angel preview, wow! I'm excited for what they may have I'm store for us!