PiñaColada Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I'm hoping for some rewording in the FAQ to be honest. Less punitive terrain rules would be nice. And for GW to pretend they meant 1/2cp for rotate ion shields. As of right now a dominus is effectively less durable than a questoris. 4 more wounds of the same stats is not a lot, especially when you won't afford 3cp to rotate that shield since the armigers don't give cp anymore.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 There are a lot of interesting things going on, with a bit of tweaking can do some good stuff with a pure knight army, if I take some of the examples given so far. Preceptor + 2 helverin is an excellent combo the Preceptor allowing the Armiger to reroll 1's to hit and with 4d3 main weapon shots per little dude, that's a minimum of 8 shots and (in a vacuum) up to 24 damage not including the Preceptor shots coming out of back field. If you do take the 3 big knights, and go battleforged ttt says 6cp and a stratagem for 1 cp allows you to take another "warlord" thus giving you another trait and the army they're using has 2 relics. They've also picked the cunning commander warlord trait for the second warlord returning 1 cp so effectively a free stratagem. This isn't bad. 6 isn't loads at all buuut it's not nothing. Not including house shenanigans. Once we have books in hand I think we will all find our little niches and be able to have some effective forces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 The knight lance detachment everyone is freaking out over is an optional detachment that you can take instead of the regular SHD. You can still take 3 armigers in a separate detachment and get 3 points. Also, people are misquoting the house raven stratagem. You only re roll die results of 1. I believe this, but do we have a full text of the Lance? Previous page. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushkilla Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Part of me is hoping that they are planning on buffing super heavy detachments to 5CP in an upcoming FAQ in which case the lance rules make sense... Also no objective secure. Gallants are now awesome though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I think I'll try House Krast for my Porphyrion + 2 armigers and a fleet of ostriches list. 4++ and reroll 1s to hit on the Porphyrion, while the armigers reroll all to hit when assaulting.On first glance the Terryn Gallant Lance seems very strong, with all the stratagems for advancing and charging, fighting twice etc. Anyone spotted some other combinations yet? Hawkshroud Valiant with the relic flamer overwatching for his allies is also a neat trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 List for laughs and tournament friendly 1750pts list Ad mech battalion (5cp) Magos: Volkite Tech priest 10 man Rangers: 2 arquebus 10 man vanguard: maul, arc pistol, 2 arc rifle 9 man vanguard: taser goad (466) Super heavy detachment Valiant: relic conflagration cannon, harpoon, 2 sets of rockets, 1 pair of cannon 2x Armiger warglaive: meltagun 2x Armiger Helverin: stubbers (1,284pts) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Cant we just take 3 armigers in a super heavy detachment and not call it a imperialt knight detachment and then gain the 3cp. They wont get house traits and stuff..but that would be all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I think I'll try House Krast for my Porphyrion + 2 armigers and a fleet of ostriches list. 4++ and reroll 1s to hit on the Porphyrion, while the armigers reroll all to hit when assaulting. On first glance the Terryn Gallant Lance seems very strong, with all the stratagems for advancing and charging, fighting twice etc. Anyone spotted some other combinations yet? Hawkshroud Valiant with the relic flamer overwatching for his allies is also a neat trick. I’m on the forgeworld page at the moment hovering over the buy button lol. I own a magnetised crusader as my only knight. I have a smattering of various Admech models. Trying to piece together a list of sorts. Going to have to consider a couple of armiger class mini knights too. What would you bring with the big bad Porphy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Cant we just take 3 armigers in a super heavy detachment and not call it a imperialt knight detachment and then gain the 3cp. They wont get house traits and stuff..but that would be all. I'll put my chin out and say we can even though I don't have the codex. I just don't see any reason why we couldn't. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong. EDIT: Isn't it that Armigers don't only qualify for CP's for being part in the specific "Knight Lance" detachment thingy? Not that they uiversally "do not qualify" for CP generation? So... they'd still potentially get house bonuses etc, just not part of this particular lance, but still from a generic super heavy knight detachment of 3 armigers? I'm clearly not as well versed in the rules here so I'm on thin ice with my reasoning (which is also why I've been avoiding this whole CP meltdown for the past few pages of the thread...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSquishiness Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 The way I understand it, 3 Armigers will net 3 CP. But if you want to make a regular/dominus Knight a character, it needs to be in a SHD with at least 2 other regular/dominus knights, otherwise you lose the CP. So, you could take 6 Armigers in 2 SHD and a SHA with a regular or Dominus Knight and make that your character. That's the way I understand it, I could be wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 The way I understand it, 3 Armigers will net 3 CP. But if you want to make a regular/dominus Knight a character, it needs to be in a SHD with at least 2 other regular/dominus knights, otherwise you lose the CP. So, you could take 6 Armigers in 2 SHD and a SHA with a regular or Dominus Knight and make that your character. That's the way I understand it, I could be wrong. But this method of making a regular/dominus knight a character is an added perk that comes with some restrictions as he is in addition to your warlord, correct? If you you want him to be character and also generate as many CP as possible, he needs two big wingmen for the full 3 points (making him essense a knight commander or subcommander, but not neccessarily the warlord). Flanking him with 2 cheap commoner armigers won't cut it for this purpose, but you have other options to field these for more CP, just without this character bonus...? That's what I'm reading from all this. I think it makes sense. I'm guessing what people lost their minds over is that it was misunderstood to mean that armigers don't generate any CP in ANY detachment, which isn't the case? Again, on thin ice here as I have a weak understanding of the rules and no better access to the codex than anyone else here. EDIT: That'll teach me for thinking I had it figured out. I assume the below wording is accurate? Knight Lances If your army is Battle-forged, select one model in each IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Detachment in your army. Each model you selected gains the CHARACTER keyword. However, the Command Benefit of each Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment is changed to 'None' unless it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units. So... every super heavy detachment is a knight lance if we're battleforged, and gets to select a character. However, they stop generating CP if they're not at least 3 big knights... I guess a lot hinges on wether we're forced to do this? Can we just not designate a model in the detachment as a character, lose the perks of having a character in the detachment but have them generate CP, regardless of frame make up? Or wait, is the knight lance not the only way to to run Imperial Knights as a battle-forged army? Yes I'm late to this worrying party. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 UK preorders arte up people, fortunately castellan/valiant is £100 so it's just NZ prices that are weird Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 UK preorders arte up people, fortunately castellan/valiant is £100 so it's just NZ prices that are weird massive sigh of relief Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Aaaaaand also a Castellan snuck into a shopping basket alongside some Helverins, the codex and that sweet battlegauge. Some strange rules regarding the armigers and CP that I hope are cleared up son but modelswise everything is so dang cool! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushkilla Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 We've also learnt that even if someone who works high up at GW builds a knight with two avengers it's just for a laugh. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MistaGav Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 We've also learnt that even if someone who works high up at GW builds a knight with two avengers it's just for a laugh. I had a feeling they would do it under the excuse of 'If it's not in the box it doesn't get rules' and all that. Still sucks as I would have loved to field knights with two guns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 So my Taranis Knights are not as bad as we thought... I think the 6+++ is a nice to have ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Those buying knights. If I wanted to armiger warglaives, is the only current way to get them forgebane? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphonne Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Points values below, these are from SS82s preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZII_xblylU&t=1s These do not include carapace weapons! Sorry for the formatting, also note, might have some mistakes Warden 285 + (75 + 17) + 30 + 4 = 411 Errant 285 + 76 + 30 + 4 = 395 Gallant 285(?) + 30 + 35 + 4 = 354 Warglaive 160 + 4 (includes Thermal Spear and Chaincleaver) Helverin 170 + 4 (includes Armiger Autocannon) Paladin 285 + (100 + 4) + 30 + 4 = 423 Crusader 285 + (75 + 17) + (100 + 4) + 4 = 485 Canis Rex 450 (Includes all wargear) Valiant 500, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints Castellan 510, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints Preceptor 385 (Includes Las Impulsor) + 30 + 4 = 419 Also, Gallant is now 5 attacks and WS2+. Thermal Cannon 76 Stormspear 45 Reaper chainsword 30 Gauntlet 35 Avenger Gatling 75 Heavy Flamer 17 Rapid Fire BC 100 Stubber 4 Shieldbreaker Missile 12 Siegebreaker Cannon 35 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 RFBC still most expensive? I am thinking about a good old Gallant Lance with Landstrider WLT... add 5++ in CC or Regeneration to taste :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Those buying knights. If I wanted to armiger warglaives, is the only current way to get them forgebane? For now, yes. I see no reason not to expect them next week along Canis Rex. I'll be very surprised if this is not the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsmacht Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Not sure if this is the right place to ask. I plan on pre-ordering a Dominus but not sure which one. I currently have an Errant and a Warden. Which Dominus would fit with them if I plan on gaming? Would like to one day and these big mechs are the only things that interest me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 RFBC still most expensive? I am thinking about a good old Gallant Lance with Landstrider WLT Yeah, from what i've heard its not actually got a point cost reduction as was rumored. A bit surprised. But we're still getting price reduction from the frames themselves so less prone to whine. But the weapon in question feels more questionable now than ever Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicHat Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 A bit disappointed with the Lance rules... Maybe they could have allowed a unit of 2 Armigers count as a knight. Forgeshrine seems pointless in most circumstances. The stratagem that makes another knight a character with warlord trait (Especially when one trait gives one CP...) looks like a nobrainer, especially considering the sheer power of some of those relics. EDIT: The way they made the Dominus sprue work looks really neat though, and supposedly allows more poses. Only one helmet though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Not sure if this is the right place to ask. I plan on pre-ordering a Dominus but not sure which one. I currently have an Errant and a Warden. Which Dominus would fit with them if I plan on gaming? Would like to one day and these big mechs are the only things that interest me. I'm gonna cautiously urge you towards the Castellan for some long range support. Errant and Warden are relatively short range (well mid range) so I think you would do well with one who stands back and deals pain from across the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/39/#findComment-5096832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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