Clingy Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Hmmm. I was set upon not getting that castellan. Now I'm back to considering it, after watching the GMG review. That plasma relic really makes it worth considering. Problem is getting enough knights to make a lance, while somehow getting CP to make it work. Not as a competitive list, but at least a list that can do something. Making it harder is the fact that my Castigator is my most expensive (and precious) model, and I want to bring it with my knight list. But that fixed 500 points tag makes that a tad harder, when you also want armiger helverins, and it seems you can't bring the FW ones as household knights and all that. Maybe later on, but at least not now. Hopefully the FAQ will hit soon, before I go make a decision to either get Renegade or Castellan. Where did you hear forgeworld can’t use (household) I’ve been told that can actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Let's look at something silly, variant on a list but since 1750 is the GT standard now, we have to play oddball. 1720/1750 Point Force, 12 CP Super Heavy Lance Gallant - 354 Gallant - 354 Gallant - 354 Custodes Supreme Command Shield Captain, Spear - 122 Shield Captain, Spear - 122 Shield Captain, Spear - 122 Vexilla, Spear, Vexilla Defensor - 112 Guard CP Regen Battalion - 180 Company Commander, Kurovs Aquila Company Commander, Brilliant Strategist 3x10 Infantry Squads So Exalted Court for 3CP straight off the bat, what else am I doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Hmmm. I was set upon not getting that castellan. Now I'm back to considering it, after watching the GMG review. That plasma relic really makes it worth considering. Problem is getting enough knights to make a lance, while somehow getting CP to make it work. Not as a competitive list, but at least a list that can do something. Making it harder is the fact that my Castigator is my most expensive (and precious) model, and I want to bring it with my knight list. But that fixed 500 points tag makes that a tad harder, when you also want armiger helverins, and it seems you can't bring the FW ones as household knights and all that. Maybe later on, but at least not now. Hopefully the FAQ will hit soon, before I go make a decision to either get Renegade or Castellan. Where did you hear forgeworld can’t use (household) I’ve been told that can actually Because technically you need to be in a Knight Lance to get the benefits of traditions. Cerastus Knights RAW, can't join Lances. The codex writer did himself even state this isn't intended though, so really you shouldn't have any issues - even before the obvious FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Let's look at something silly, variant on a list but since 1750 is the GT standard now, we have to play oddball. 1720/1750 Point Force, 12 CP Super Heavy Lance Gallant - 354 Gallant - 354 Gallant - 354 Custodes Supreme Command Shield Captain, Spear - 122 Shield Captain, Spear - 122 Shield Captain, Spear - 122 Vexilla, Spear, Vexilla Defensor - 112 Guard CP Regen Battalion - 180 Company Commander, Kurovs Aquila Company Commander, Brilliant Strategist 3x10 Infantry Squads So Exalted Court for 3CP straight off the bat, what else am I doing? Might as well give one Gallant 'Cunning Commander' for the re-roll (saves you a CP in game), and the extra CP refund. Meaning you now only spent 2 on Exalted Court effectively? Krast's tradition makes arguably the most sense for 3 Gallants. You get re-rolls in the fight phase, which averages out as more consistent damage than Griffiths extra attack, plus you don't need stuff like the HI, as you have it baked into the fact that all your Knights are characters. You also have that pretty tasty exploding 6's Strat with them, AND because you'd be a Mechanicus house, you also get access to Machine Spirit resurgent, which is a no-brainer really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Also would it get a house trait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Also would it get a house trait? No, I don't believe so. You could take it, but just as an ordinary Castellan. To get the other benefits it MUST be in a lance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Also would it get a house trait? No, I don't believe so. You could take it, but just as an ordinary Castellan. To get the other benefits it MUST be in a lance. You can but it won't be your warlord. Two stratagems to use. The relic one makes a knight a character and gives it a relic, the other makes it a character and gives it a trait. Cost the same as all other relic strats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 200 point IG batalliobs are an issue for peeps wanting to slow down soup. In fact in my meta IG rule. It's hard to get over the amount of CP they bring and generate, not to mention rule-of-three breaking squadrons, horde infantry, and non-LOS shooting options. They're a tough fight. I wish there was another way to boost CP for knights, as well as other armies. I was hoping armorers would do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Honestly, I've watched two games now and 6 CP seems more than enough for a pure IK force. You just have to be careful when and what you use them on. Sure you can drop in an IG battalion, hell it is even kind of fluffy, but you don't need the 5 extra CP from it. Just keep in mind that the 5CP and 32 models you get cost the same as a Helverin, actually maybe a little bit more. The Knights are seriously strong. I'm looking forward to GMG's second game where he will be running up against one of the more powerful ITC lists that Eldar can bring. Are Knights unbeatable? No. But I've said this before and it is true for every army in the game right now, every army has a counter. IKs counter is anti-tank. But if you field an entire army of anti-tank you are not going to win a tournament. You would just be doing it to piss off IK players. Even swarm lists are going to be a grind for the IKs. If you don't have enough anti-infantry you're going to struggle. But with that said I still feel this is a very balanced and strong codex. It is not an alpha codex, but a good player will be able to make it shine. Target priority and knowledge of the game is going to be super important with this codex as it takes the "elite" army to the extreme. What is even better is that the codex allows you to be competitive with a melee/ranged/mixed focused list making it difficult for most opponented to plan for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Honestly, I've watched two games now and 6 CP seems more than enough for a pure IK force. You just have to be careful when and what you use them on. Sure you can drop in an IG battalion, hell it is even kind of fluffy, but you don't need the 5 extra CP from it. Just keep in mind that the 5CP and 32 models you get cost the same as a Helverin, actually maybe a little bit more. The Knights are seriously strong. I'm looking forward to GMG's second game where he will be running up against one of the more powerful ITC lists that Eldar can bring. Are Knights unbeatable? No. But I've said this before and it is true for every army in the game right now, every army has a counter. IKs counter is anti-tank. But if you field an entire army of anti-tank you are not going to win a tournament. You would just be doing it to piss off IK players. Even swarm lists are going to be a grind for the IKs. If you don't have enough anti-infantry you're going to struggle. But with that said I still feel this is a very balanced and strong codex. It is not an alpha codex, but a good player will be able to make it shine. Target priority and knowledge of the game is going to be super important with this codex as it takes the "elite" army to the extreme. What is even better is that the codex allows you to be competitive with a melee/ranged/mixed focused list making it difficult for most opponented to plan for. So I'll probably take allies in most of my lists just to have enough CP to experiment with strats but if I did a pure knight list with 6 CP I'd probably only use the relic and warlord strat once each so 4 CP to use for key moments. It might be enough but I'll need a few games to be sure on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 So I'll probably take allies in most of my lists just to have enough CP to experiment with strats but if I did a pure knight list with 6 CP I'd probably only use the relic and warlord strat once each so 4 CP to use for key moments. It might be enough but I'll need a few games to be sure on that. I hear ya. Something to also keep in mind that the stratagem that you're building around needs to not be game breaking when you can't use it. Keep in mind a Dark Eldar army will keep 3 CP just to make sure you can't do it. I think building the IK pure lists need to be built around not relying on those stratagems and just figure they are a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Also would it get a house trait? No, I don't believe so. You could take it, but just as an ordinary Castellan. To get the other benefits it MUST be in a lance. You can but it won't be your warlord. Two stratagems to use. The relic one makes a knight a character and gives it a relic, the other makes it a character and gives it a trait. Cost the same as all other relic strats. Oh I thought I would need to use the strat that makes it a character and then a strat to give it a relic because not being in a lance it wouldnt get a relic? That strat that makes it a character gives it a WL trait though? I know won't be my warlord. Is it that you don't get a house trait unless in a lance with 3 big knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Also would it get a house trait? No, I don't believe so. You could take it, but just as an ordinary Castellan. To get the other benefits it MUST be in a lance. You can but it won't be your warlord. Two stratagems to use. The relic one makes a knight a character and gives it a relic, the other makes it a character and gives it a trait. Cost the same as all other relic strats.Oh I thought I would need to use the strat that makes it a character and then a strat to give it a relic because not being in a lance it wouldnt get a relic? That strat that makes it a character gives it a WL trait though? I know won't be my warlord. Is it that you don't get a house trait unless in a lance with 3 big knights? I got to see a copy of the codex today and the relic strat makes the knight a character as well so you can use them separately but if you only have the one knight you'd need both to get the warlord trait and the relic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Also would it get a house trait? No, I don't believe so. You could take it, but just as an ordinary Castellan. To get the other benefits it MUST be in a lance. Which is crazy to me, itd be like you can only have iron hands chapter tactics if you take three tech marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 If running just 1 knight to complement another force, make it a freeblade knight to get those rule benefits? My plan seems to be a 2000 point list along these lines: Super Heavy Detachment (not a lance), 3 CP Cerastus knight Castigator Armiger Helverine Armiger Helverine Lance detachment, 3 CP and the other benefits, probably house Raven Knight Gallant Knight Gallant Knight Warden or Crusader (depending on points) Not having the trait on 2 helverines is no disaster. If it's going to be a Crusader, he could be swapped with the castigator, but could also swap with one of the gallants (when the FW knights will be allowed to join lances and have benefits), as they don't really shoot a lot anyways (missing a heavy stubber really isn't a big deal). The knight in the CP SHD should ideally be a freeblade for rules benefits. You get more CP with allies, but if you want a pure knights list, that can do OK in a setting that is not top tier competitive play, I think the above might be viable. It at least has both some shooting that can help a bit against chaff, and has 3 or 4 quite capable CC knights. I haven't gotten too deeply into stratagems, (how many) relics and WL traits, so I'll refrain from posting suggestions for those. The charge after advancing strat seems to be a no brainer to use though, and replacing a weapon on at least one of the gallants with the relic version would be a good idea too. Then perhaps the relic avenger gatling on the warden/crusader and something to toughen up the warlord (castigator?), if possible. The above list is my base formed by what I have and am willing to get. I have the crusader/warden and the castigator, the helverines are on order with the codex, and I'm hoping I can pick up a renegade box come next paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Hmmm. I was set upon not getting that castellan. Now I'm back to considering it, after watching the GMG review. That plasma relic really makes it worth considering. Problem is getting enough knights to make a lance, while somehow getting CP to make it work. Not as a competitive list, but at least a list that can do something. Making it harder is the fact that my Castigator is my most expensive (and precious) model, and I want to bring it with my knight list. But that fixed 500 points tag makes that a tad harder, when you also want armiger helverins, and it seems you can't bring the FW ones as household knights and all that. Maybe later on, but at least not now. Hopefully the FAQ will hit soon, before I go make a decision to either get Renegade or Castellan.Where did you hear forgeworld can’t use (household) I’ve been told that can actually Because technically you need to be in a Knight Lance to get the benefits of traditions. Cerastus Knights RAW, can't join Lances. The codex writer did himself even state this isn't intended though, so really you shouldn't have any issues - even before the obvious FAQ. Oh that’s interesting. Hmm that does make things a bit up in the air. Thanks for the info though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Well my group seems to want to move towards 1750 point matches, which I'm fine with but that does limit things a bit. I had planned to use a Castellan, a preceptor and the rest would be a mix of the armiger chassis. Now it seems that list would only net me 3cp for being battleforged, which honestly feels a bit ridiculous. Fortunately the gallant might have walked out of this codex as an unlikely hero, but still. I really wish they hadn't invented a CP system that merely punishes pure IK lists. Or at least give the lance 5CP, since it's impossible to fit two of those at 2k (3x gallants are 1062points) Also, I understand that it's a good problem to have, but man do we have some good warlord traits and stratagems. I'm thinking a Castellan with adamantium knight as a trait and with the Cawl's Wrath relic. Then a Gallant with Knight Seneschal warlord trait and The Paragon Gauntlet relic. By the way, is there no relic version of the Las Impulsor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 So assuming FW knights are going to work with lances.. If you take a knight lancer.. and make it house terryn and use the land strider warlord trait. You can move 14. advance 3d6+2 and pick the 2 highest and then use the full tilt strat so you can charge after advance. then charge 3d6+2 and chose the to highest.. So around 36 move-charge on average?. and a potential 42. That is just silly:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Also would it get a house trait? No, I don't believe so. You could take it, but just as an ordinary Castellan. To get the other benefits it MUST be in a lance. You can but it won't be your warlord. Two stratagems to use. The relic one makes a knight a character and gives it a relic, the other makes it a character and gives it a trait. Cost the same as all other relic strats.Oh I thought I would need to use the strat that makes it a character and then a strat to give it a relic because not being in a lance it wouldnt get a relic? That strat that makes it a character gives it a WL trait though? I know won't be my warlord. Is it that you don't get a house trait unless in a lance with 3 big knights? I got to see a copy of the codex today and the relic strat makes the knight a character as well so you can use them separately but if you only have the one knight you'd need both to get the warlord trait and the relic.OK so just 1cp for the relic which makes the knight a Character, but could spend another for a warlord trait (always should because worse case you use the trait to get +1 CP and a free reroll at some point) Have I got this correct? 1cp for that Castellan seems pretty good, I'd say another CP for the 4++ is worth it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 So assuming FW knights are going to work with lances.. If you take a knight lancer.. and make it house terryn and use the land strider warlord trait. You can move 14. advance 3d6+2 and pick the 2 highest and then use the full tilt strat so you can charge after advance. then charge 3d6+2 and chose the to highest.. So around 36 move-charge on average?. and a potential 42. That is just silly:) Whilst it's 75 points more currently, I'm wondering if you'd get a better return with an Atrapos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 So assuming FW knights are going to work with lances.. If you take a knight lancer.. and make it house terryn and use the land strider warlord trait. You can move 14. advance 3d6+2 and pick the 2 highest and then use the full tilt strat so you can charge after advance. then charge 3d6+2 and chose the to highest.. So around 36 move-charge on average?. and a potential 42. That is just silly:) Whilst it's 75 points more currently, I'm wondering if you'd get a better return with an Atrapos? Honestly i would rather do this with a gallant. while not as fast(2+1d6slower) or hardy its better at stomping chaff and i wont be so sad when it blows up:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I really am struggling on the 1750 front, maybe biting the bullet and going 6cp as others have mentioned is gonna have to happen, but even then it's hard. I really hope the FW knights get points reductions but I'm not holding out much hope given how awful FW are at that side of things nowadays Atrapos Gallant Crusader And either another Gallant or 2x Helverin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I'm definitely going to add some helverins to the force, flat damage 3 is just so useful! - Against anything with a FnP (even nurgle terminators) - Custodes - Bikes - Fast flyes (because they're often T6 and not too many wounds) - Kataphrons or centurions if you ever see those - A lot of medium vehicles - Good amount of damage against the horrible quantum shielding ability - Move around and snipe weak/medium characters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I have a weird feeling that they are going to do the dumb gw thing and FAQ that 3 damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I'd be okay with that if they changed the stats to get us more shots I guess, if they just changed the damage from 3 to d3 I'll be real sad. Buuut if they did this, I'd be okay with it. (They won't) Heavy 2d3 60" S7 AP-1 D3 changed into Heavy 6 60" S7 AP-1 Dd3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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