Hermanista's Knights Mechanicus

[hermanista]

So two games, two wins as well as winning best painted warlord for my Styrix. Was never really in doubt as painting isn't a focus for the gamers there. Also was the only person of twelve with a fully painted army, unfortunately no soft scores on that side.

 

List wise, I took a reworked version of my ToS list, however this was points not power. Also beta rules were in effect so no double super heavy detachment.

 

Super heavy detachment

Crusader with rfbc/gc/2x stubber/heavy flanker

Styrix with claw, Warlord, Tenacious Survivor.

2x Armiger with melta

Armiger with melta

Armiger with melts

 

6 cp... that was rubbish...

 

Unfortunately I didn't get many pics and the quality was awful.

 

Game one vs Dark elder

 

New codex for the fella, standard army really

 

3 ravaged

4 squads in raiders

2x10 watches, smattering of characters

 

Won 9-8 which was a close one.

 

The lack of Command Points really sucks, 6 for a battle isn't enough, when your only actual stratagems are rotate shields and reroll.

 

 

 

Game 2 vs Death Guard

 

Played against the lad who is probably best player in store and one of the main organisers for 40k events there.

 

Morty, Nurgle Prince, 2 Helbrutes with Lascannon, 3 spotter drones, warp time sorceror, 3 deathshroud, some cultists and 2x3 nurglings.

 

Got priority, toasted the 2 nurglings squads for first blood and then steadily lost knights to a warp time, purification Morty flying round one shorting knights.

 

Won out 13-10 on victory points though when I shouldn't have.

 

 

 

 

I left before the final scores, they'll come only shortly I expect.

 

Fiver gift voucher for best painted mini was nice though.

[Thousand Eyes]

Finally found your B&C thread. Great to see the larger sized pictures. I only see the FB stuff on my phone.

 

Did you stock up on the FW paints before they are gone?

[hermanista]

Finally found your B&C thread. Great to see the larger sized pictures. I only see the FB stuff on my phone.

 

Did you stock up on the FW paints before they are gone?

Yikes, a stalker!

 

I have a couple of reds, and supposedly 5 on the way through the post from Australia, but they've been on the way since April 10th so we'll see if they ever arrive.

 

And thanks

 

:-)

[Vel'Cona]

You should get +1 VP automatically for having your stuff painted when apparently noone else does :P

 

Good games though, way to show off the IK in spectacular fashion!  What was your takeaway on the Armigers overall?

[hermanista]

You should get +1 VP automatically for having your stuff painted when apparently noone else does :P

 

Good games though, way to show off the IK in spectacular fashion! What was your takeaway on the Armigers overall?

I said that, the store owners come t was "we're working towards it, give it time"

 

There were some other nearly fully painted armies in some other games.

 

 

Turns out I only won one game too, I didn't realise tabling would override winning on the actual mission victory conditions. Stupid game, lol.

 

 

My take aways on the Armigers

 

They are overpriced, when I could drop one and take a guard battalion with tactical brilliance/Kurovs Aquila for +5 cp and cp regen, its only my narrative style approach to gaming stopping it.

 

Apart from that, they're ok, maybe they could do with the ability to withdraw still, they are still LoW after all.

 

If they drop 50-80 points then they would be brilliant.

 

I still love the models though and it's the only real way to play pure knights.

 

I can do 3 crusaders and an Armiger for 2k though irc... which is probably more competative on damage output, but harder to win on objectives.

 

I do hope the knight objective cards are more aggressive though, playing with lots of secure/control cards from the standard deck is a killer as it slows the army down so much meaning you go in piecemeal rather than in force.

[Vel'Cona]

Yeah, I get that on the painted models thing; my comment was more of an observation than a criticism of your FLGS community.  This does seem to be a troubling trend recently, though . . .

 

 

My take aways on the Armigers

They are overpriced, when I could drop one and take a guard battalion with tactical brilliance/Kurovs Aquila for +5 cp and cp regen, its only my narrative style approach to gaming stopping it.

Apart from that, they're ok, maybe they could do with the ability to withdraw still, they are still LoW after all.

If they drop 50-80 points then they would be brilliant.

I still love the models though and it's the only real way to play pure knights.

I can do 3 crusaders and an Armiger for 2k though irc... which is probably more competative on damage output, but harder to win on objectives.

 

Fair points on all, and reflect much of what has been said around the AdMech subforum.  I for one love the look of the Armigers and I wanted to like their rules, but they seem to lose so much in the transition to "mini-Knight" that it almost makes one wonder what the point is.  Especially troubling to me is the complete lack of arm weapon options; it seems like common sense to me that there should be some kind of flamer/plasma/bolter gun option and likely a power fist of some kind, as well.  It's a real shame as I was very excited for their release but early adopters resounding cry of "meh" made me shy away (I do have 2 on sprues, though).

[Stray]

 

Fair points on all, and reflect much of what has been said around the AdMech subforum.  I for one love the look of the Armigers and I wanted to like their rules, but they seem to lose so much in the transition to "mini-Knight" that it almost makes one wonder what the point is.  Especially troubling to me is the complete lack of arm weapon options; it seems like common sense to me that there should be some kind of flamer/plasma/bolter gun option and likely a power fist of some kind, as well.  It's a real shame as I was very excited for their release but early adopters resounding cry of "meh" made me shy away (I do have 2 on sprues, though).

 

With their speed, their role screams to me: 'Get me into melee so I can tie up a unit for you, preventing it from assault/shooting.'

 

Thing is, I can't see how they'd make enough of an impact in terms of damage output or survivability, and without the ability to withdraw at will like their bigger cousins, we'd probably just end up tar-pitting several hundred points of Armiger :/

 

Maybe the codex will give us something here.

[Thousand Eyes]

@Stray is right there. I always assumed they could move out of combat freely like the regular knights. Personally I would be keen on having two for my AdMech for threatening flanks at speed.

 

Thankfully AdMech can use 41 point Vanguard squads to fill out a batllion pretty quick.

[hermanista]

The other options will come in the separate release I'm sure, so that cover that size.

 

But yeah otherwise, great models, poor utility.

 

Still, as with the comment from my Throne of Skulls trip, having two kill a greater brass scorpion was a truly awesome and cinematic moment.

 

I just wish they were betterer.

[Charlo]

Hermanista, you'll know... What are parts 25, 29, 24 & 26 for on the armiger?

 

They make two tiny little pipes... I've built one without it with no ill effects...

[hermanista]

They go from the indent on the inside leg to between the "train tracks" onthe groin.

 

You can just about see them here.

 

[Charlo]

AHHHHH got it. Cheers!

[hermanista]

So the details for the warhammer 40k GT have been released this morning with some interesting developments.

 

Now four heats instead of three.

 

It's now 1750 points!

 

So my grand plan of a pure knight list for the GT may have taken a massive hit unless we see some real point changes in the codex.

 

It'll definitely be rise of the #Aeldarii lists now I think at that points.

 

Some major rethinks coming now.

[Stray]

Oh wow, that's an interesting change - especially out of the blue like that O.o

 

Well, we've all been saying we could use some QoL adjustments in terms of points... let's hope GW have felt the same way!

 

All the best planning the revised list buddy.

[Vel'Cona]

Oh wow, that's an interesting change - especially out of the blue like that O.o

 

Well, we've all been saying we could use some QoL adjustments in terms of points... let's hope GW have felt the same way!

 

All the best planning the revised list buddy.

 

It's a reaction to the massive number of unfinished games in tournaments.  Slow play is an issue for some, OFC, but simply lowering the points available by 12.5% will hopefully reduce the overall time needed per turn.  Most tournament players SEEMED to agree that lowering points was the best solution, and for GW to absorb this means they likely agreed.  It's interesting because from a marketing perspective, it's in GW's best interest to enforce larger armies, so they must actually care quite a bit about competitive balance to take this step when it could very easily affect their bottom line.

 

TL:DR; 1750 sounds great to me, and I fully support this shift :)

[Stray]

I'm going to risk sounding like a terrible cynic here Vel... :P

 

My first impression when Hermanista posted this was, much like yours, something was being altered in an effort to speed games up. I suppose reducing points has to influence that to a degree, but I don't know whether a 250 pt decrease will make all that much difference realistically to how long a game takes. 

 

It's not a huge decrease, so I figure it really won't have an impact on the people who are determined to 'slow play', especially those doing it for advantage?

It is probably enough of a decrease to really adversely effect some armies (Knights are the elephant in the room here, if no changes happen), and have relatively little impact on the feasibility of others.

 

I think my worry is that, although I really, really like seeing GW making changes based on feedback, I'm not sure whether they're not sometimes guilty of making the wrong changes? Not that I am to say what changes are right or wrong of course :) - but a game like 40K, with as many elements as it has, must be nigh impossible to balance - I wouldn't envy anyone that task.

I would like to see some attempt at it though beyond little things like this? While making a points reduction like this (and it's a small matter in the great scheme of things really - it's one event afterall) looks good, is it well thought through when we as a playerbase have a reasonable suspicion that the points system is possibly fundamentally... damaged? (I don't know enough to know if I'd want to say broken!)

 

In that way, it seems a little like adding additional weight to a structures foundation when you can't be sure it's actually sound... O.o

 

I'll be really interested to hear feedback after the event in either case :)

[hermanista]

You know, at this point, I could live with deathclocks for tournaments.

 

If you can't play your army in the correct amount of time, get better or pick a smaller amount of models to use.

 

- That's why my army is 6 models currently :-)

[Battybattybats]

You know, at this point, I could live with deathclocks for tournaments.

 

If you can't play your army in the correct amount of time, get better or pick a smaller amount of models to use.

 

- That's why my army is 6 models currently :-)

I think if giving a reasonable amount of time for horde armies that'd be a much better solution, considering it's to fix people apparently going deliberately slow to abuse the system.

[hermanista]

Spend 1 cp to add 10 mins to your death clock

[noigrim]

tactical note: if you have 6 knights you can fill two superheavy detachments for a total of 6+3 9CP

 

nice knights

[hermanista]

You could

 

Until the rule of 3 appeared meaning you couldn't take 4 Armigers any more making the army obsolete in that form

[Clingy]

But you could take 3 Armigers and 1 Helliger or 2 and 2 to avoid data sheet restrictions couldn’t you.

[PiñaColada]

That should be possible. And if we get that rumoured 60 point drop for armigers they could actually be pretty good. 180 points with extra melta alongside a trait doesn't actually sound all that bad.

[Black Knight]

If it is a separate datasheet yes but if its a simple weapon swap then no. We wont know until the codex, but the separate name usually means a separate datasheet.

[hermanista]

Yeah I've already worked out the styrix/crusader/4 Armigers will probably generate enough left over points to include a helliger/hellverin.

 

And if the Armigers get the swipe attack. Great