Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Abadon's amazing, but is going to lose some points efficiency. I personally find the black legion trait to be rubbish, but the stratagem's pretty good, and we're getting at least one decent looking new relic. Plus there's whatever "warmaster's legion" is. Maybe troop chosen again? Who knows. Mostly I'm sticking with the black legion for fluff and aesthetics. Supposedly a ton of support inc just for BL so I think that our trait will remain meh at best but our relic and strategem options may end up making up for that by a big margin. About par the course for most legions, seems like if the legion trait sucks the relics and strats usually make up for it. (at least from my perspective its something like that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Hmm...this would work with the shooting attacks of raptors too, wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Brotherhood Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Yes, not really worth it though if you already have a chaos lord nearby. All it would net you is being able to reroll 2s or any would be failures after modifiers and even then only on one unit. If you don't run your shooty Raptors with a chaos lord then sure knock yourself out. But you've got to pay 1CP to unlock the detatchment and then a further 1CP for the strategem. Better off just doing endless cacophony or VotLW to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Agreed with Midnight Brotherhood. It's probably the best use of the Stratagem but still not a really great use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I was more thinking of a small character assassination squad, like jump down behind enemy lines and fire at an exposed character or something. Six overcharged plasma shots is quite nice when you re-roll to hit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Brotherhood Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 It could work, but at that point you'd be better off with 3 meltas and 2CP on endless cacophony for 6 melta shots as opposed to 6 supercharged plasma shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 It could work, but at that point you'd be better off with 3 meltas and 2CP on endless cacophony for 6 melta shots as opposed to 6 supercharged plasma shots. It would be either 3 Melta shots vs 6 Plasma shots or 6 Melta shots vs 12 Plasma shots though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I'm glad all these Renegade groups are getting some love, but I just can't picture myself diverging from pure Black Legion. Maybe stubbornness, I'm returning after a long while but I've always just played any army I felt like no matter how hard or easy. Besides, with my deep love of Daemon Engines and other units that don't benefit from the Legion trait it's not really a big issue to me. I'll probably experiment with the specialist detachment thing since it's a new concept for me, and I could see allying in some Daemons or something, but I feel fine with my chosen faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Brotherhood Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 meltas + endless cacophony would be 2CP - 6 shots 3 plasmas + vicious descent would be 2CP (incl detachment) - 6 shots supercharged 3 plasmas + vicious descent + endless cacophony would be 4CP - 12 shots supercharged. If you're running a solo raptor unit to hunt a character I don't think you'd want to supercharge and endless cacophony without any kind of rerolls, that is unless you don't mind if some of them die in the first volley. Melta seems better as just 1 or 2 shots getting through could easily kill a character for 2CP and without risk of blowing yourself up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 meltas + endless cacophony would be 2CP - 6 shots 3 plasmas + vicious descent would be 2CP (incl detachment) - 6 shots supercharged 3 plasmas + vicious descent + endless cacophony would be 4CP - 12 shots supercharged. If you're running a solo raptor unit to hunt a character I don't think you'd want to supercharge and endless cacophony without any kind of rerolls, that is unless you don't mind if some of them die in the first volley. Melta seems better as just 1 or 2 shots getting through could easily kill a character for 2CP and without risk of blowing yourself up. It's the opposite imo. If you already invest a whole unit and 2CP to hunt a character you might as well go all in with 4CP and overcharge the plasma to ensure your target really dies because they sure as hell won't survive the backlash anyway. That being said, most characters already die easily against cacophony Plasma Raptors (and they do more damage on average than cacophony Melta even) and against more squishy characters even just vicious descent is enough so it wouldn't necessarily cost more CP. Plus if there's no opportunity to use them as a character assassination squad they are just way more flexible with Plasma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Brotherhood Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 meltas + endless cacophony would be 2CP - 6 shots 3 plasmas + vicious descent would be 2CP (incl detachment) - 6 shots supercharged 3 plasmas + vicious descent + endless cacophony would be 4CP - 12 shots supercharged. If you're running a solo raptor unit to hunt a character I don't think you'd want to supercharge and endless cacophony without any kind of rerolls, that is unless you don't mind if some of them die in the first volley. Melta seems better as just 1 or 2 shots getting through could easily kill a character for 2CP and without risk of blowing yourself up. It's the opposite imo. If you already invest a whole unit and 2CP to hunt a character you might as well go all in with 4CP and overcharge the plasma to ensure your target really dies because they sure as hell won't survive the backlash anyway. That being said, most characters already die easily against cacophony Plasma Raptors (and they do more damage on average than cacophony Melta even) and against more squishy characters even just vicious descent is enough so it wouldn't necessarily cost more CP. Plus if there's no opportunity to use them as a character assassination squad they are just way more flexible with Plasma. True! I guess it depends on how much CP you have free to play with. But if you're Red Corsairs 4CP is nothing to you anyway harharhar...!....*sobs* Vicious descent could be a good way to free up my list taking a Chaos Lord on foot with my gunline rather having to have one with a jump pack to support Raptors. I'll have to play around with this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 I really love the purge rules leaked yesterday. Very thematic. Tie down someone's expensive unit with a blob of cultists and unleash hell with your havocs lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 My first army was chaos (painted as Black Legion of course!), but I haven't touched them in quite a long time as there are quite a few loyalist chapters I like, plus IG. Once a heretic, always a heretic I suppose. I just couldn't resist starting a chaos army again after seeing the lord discordant! And while my original army was Black Legion, the Night Lords are the legion that is really calling to me now. I even have a metal sorcerer and some metal raptors that need some paint. Being metal, they are true veterans of the long war and it would be a shame if they didn't see the table again! and the new 32mm bases might mean that those flying chunks of pewter might actually be able to stand up for more than 2 minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the emperor is scottish Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 My first army was chaos (painted as Black Legion of course!), but I haven't touched them in quite a long time as there are quite a few loyalist chapters I like, plus IG. Once a heretic, always a heretic I suppose. I just couldn't resist starting a chaos army again after seeing the lord discordant! And while my original army was Black Legion, the Night Lords are the legion that is really calling to me now. I even have a metal sorcerer and some metal raptors that need some paint. Being metal, they are true veterans of the long war and it would be a shame if they didn't see the table again! and the new 32mm bases might mean that those flying chunks of pewter might actually be able to stand up for more than 2 minutes! The metal avian looking raptors are still some of the best minis released by Gw in my opinion. I've been trying for ages to get my hands on finecast ones to scale up but no success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I had a full squad plus extras but sold them on Ebay. They did solid work for me in 3rd Edition, but the damn things never wanted to stay standing. And besides, the new plastic ones are great too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Well the Word Bearers article is up. I'm still playing Black Legion but I'm taking Possessed and a Dark Apostle now :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 My big gripe right now is that the specialist detachments and stratagems are really cool, but they're just encouraging more CP farming like with the "Heretical 17". really really hope the FAQ reigns it in, that's my last hope that GW really doesn't intend for the game to be about CP batteries to power stratagems and specialist detachments. Because so far everything they've done, while it looks like it's meant to spend CP so you have less during the game, has just encouraged MORE CP farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Little bit nervous about these Dark Apostle rules. I don't like the idea of rolling to see if my guys can reroll their missed attacks or not, and I really hope that's a Word Bearer only "feature". I don't want to have to use Khârn. I'm demotivated regarding painting, and I'm feeling pretty nervous about all this. A dark apostle is a cornerstone of my World Eaters. I do not need some RanDumb crap thrown on top of my guys, it defeats the purpose for taking a dark apostle. Really, really don't want to have to take "Whoops, looks like you're getting that "fun" Ork experience of killing your own guys!" Khârn. Excited for Fallen...but expecting crap because it's GW and Chaos. Just wanting World Eaters to come out so I can see how screwed I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I did have to laugh at the 'new and improved HQ options' comment that was immediately followed by an update to the dark apostle that made their attack reroll aura /worse/ by making you roll to activate it instead of being automatic. Jokes aside, though, there are a lot of somewhat redundant attack reroll buffs of various kinds available to CSMs in general, so with 10 other prayers to choose from, chances are at least one or two of those will be a significant upgrade on the old aura, even needing a roll to activate them. As such, I'm betting that apostles will overall prove more useful than they are now, even if they're slightly less good at doing the specific job they currently do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I'll certainly be swapping my Berzerkers' attendant Apostle for a Lord after this. Well, most likely in any case. We did only see two of his prayers and there's going to be, what, 11 (including Dark Zealotry)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 And he has god specific prayers which makes me curious as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 While only having their buffs go off on a 3+ is a huge change, I think they could still be pretty good depending on what the other 10 prayers do. They still have potential to be an interesting unit on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 First off, I'm heartened to see such a wave of enthusiasm down here! Long may it continue! As to my plans, I'm gonna use the new Marines for my Black Legion, the new daemony stuff for my Word Bearers and try and resist the call of a Red Corsair army, if for no other reason that after 9 armies I'm running out of unit combinations to try out. Dragonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I love the prayers. Much more interesting that this lame re-roll aura. I'm looking forward to the other 9 prayers and hope I can use him as Emperor's Children too once they get their own Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithrilForge Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Little bit nervous about these Dark Apostle rules. I don't like the idea of rolling to see if my guys can reroll their missed attacks or not, and I really hope that's a Word Bearer only "feature". I don't want to have to use Khârn. I'm demotivated regarding painting, and I'm feeling pretty nervous about all this. A dark apostle is a cornerstone of my World Eaters. I do not need some RanDumb crap thrown on top of my guys, it defeats the purpose for taking a dark apostle. Really, really don't want to have to take "Whoops, looks like you're getting that "fun" Ork experience of killing your own guys!" Khârn. Excited for Fallen...but expecting crap because it's GW and Chaos. Just wanting World Eaters to come out so I can see how screwed I am. Dude... your cup really is half empty all the time...most of your posts are super negative (like eeyore) do you enjoy the game? or are you just a crusty veteran of the long war i dont ask it being sarcastic...just asking... Mithril Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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