Your plans

[Panzer]

 

I think it's better go all in. Target saturation and all that; 6x5 havocs with 4 miniguns each is only 600 points (champ with bolt pistol and chainsword). That's also an insane amount of shots. For less than 400 pts you can add 3 dreadclaws for fun factor.

 

I don't know if I'm going to do that (yet), because the list is still wip, and formations to be decided.

 

Rule of 3. Can only have 3 units of Havocs in matched play games. 

 

 

Only in tournaments who enforce it. It's a suggestion, not a rule after all.

[Relic]

Rule of 3 and all that. 

 

Horde clearing for CSM I have not really found to be an issue. Berzerks, noise marines, buffed cultists and bikers all pump out a volume of shots. 

 

I know people are excited about Havocs, but I am finding it hard to get away from the line of thinking that MEQ's in general are still...not good. Even with T5 and ignoring penalty to move..5 marines will die very quickly if someone wants them dead. Space marine Dev's were better then CSM havocs and you don't seem them dominating either. 

 

The additional changes to Cultists are a kick. It is like GW picked every option to nerf them rather then going with one in the past few months. That said with the Dark Apostle prayers dishing out invulnerable saves in a radius and other such buffs maybe GW thought it would stack too well on 40 man units. 

 

I think you will still want to take cultists as normal marines are definitely meh and filling up board space with cheap models is a thing. I think i'll still run about 60 cultists either with Iron Warrior fearless bubble or Abaddon.

 

A 20 man CSM red corsair unit interests me - but I am doubtful as you will want Abaddon to make them fearless and 3 CP to recycle them. Your going to be putting additional CP into the unit to make them fire twice most likely and some psychic powers/prayers to buff a fairly expensive unit. 

 

Obliterators will most likely get changed back in pts so that is kind of moot. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

I think it's better go all in. Target saturation and all that; 6x5 havocs with 4 miniguns each is only 600 points (champ with bolt pistol and chainsword). That's also an insane amount of shots. For less than 400 pts you can add 3 dreadclaws for fun factor.

 

I don't know if I'm going to do that (yet), because the list is still wip, and formations to be decided.

 

Rule of 3. Can only have 3 units of Havocs in matched play games. 

 

 

Only in tournaments who enforce it. It's a suggestion, not a rule after all.

 

 

What? I thought it was for all matched play games. (That and it is enforced in tourneys that I have seen thankfully lol) 

 

 

[Wayniac]

I think the 3 unit ("Rule of Three") is Matched Play, it's the 3 detachment which is organized/tournament only (despite most people thinking it's matched play and apply it to all games)

[Guzzlrr]

I think the 3 unit ("Rule of Three") is Matched Play, it's the 3 detachment which is organized/tournament only (despite most people thinking it's matched play and apply it to all games)

Yeah I believe it's just a suggestion. But I think it's a valid rule to keep things relatively interesting and not so cheesey. My gaming group is very competitive at times so wee rules like that keeps it PC

[Sception]

In honor of new releases, i'm testing out a slight modification to my Black Legion color scheme, picking up some of those fancy, alcohol-based vallejo 'liquid gold' metallics and gw's shiny gloss mixes of earthshade & nuln oil, to see if I can't get a brighter, more striking gold trim going.

[Wayniac]

In honor of new releases, i'm testing out a slight modification to my Black Legion color scheme, picking up some of those fancy, alcohol-based vallejo 'liquid gold' metallics and gw's shiny gloss mixes of earthshade & nuln oil, to see if I can't get a brighter, more striking gold trim going.

I'm curious how the gloss paints work on the gold, I've been using just nuln over the gold to tarnish it a little.

[Sception]

I'm curious how the gloss paints work on the gold, I've been using just nuln over the gold to tarnish it a little.

There will be pictures when I'm done, though I'm not sure how well photographs will convey the final effect.

[Danny Cyanide]

Vallejo liquid gold are amazing paints!

[Subtle Discord]

In honor of new releases, i'm testing out a slight modification to my Black Legion color scheme, picking up some of those fancy, alcohol-based vallejo 'liquid gold' metallics and gw's shiny gloss mixes of earthshade & nuln oil, to see if I can't get a brighter, more striking gold trim going.

I can say first hand that these are amazing paints. They do have a bit of a learning curve and can be a bit harder to control if you want clean edges, but with black as a cleanup colour they are excellent. No acrylic gold I've ever used covers like Liquid Gold; one coat with just a few touch-ups for thin spots is all it takes. Just be sure to shake the crap out of them and even stir them up if the've been sitting a long time and keep mixing, swirling, and stirring frequently as you work because the pigment flakes settle very quickly. They also dry very fast which is a blessing and a curse so be sure to get some 95%+ isopropyl alcohol to keep things fluid and for cleanup.

 

If you're anything like me, I paint my gold as bright as possible and then just used the washes carefully darken them. I mention this because I've found that the Green Gold in the line is actually the brightest and the name might turn people off. It does have an ever-so-slight green tint to it, but as soon as even a light wash is added it vanishes. All of the golds in the line are great (and that extends to the copper and silver) so you can't go wrong with any of them, but I still like the little bit extra brightness I get from the Green Gold.

[Subtle Discord]

 

In honor of new releases, i'm testing out a slight modification to my Black Legion color scheme, picking up some of those fancy, alcohol-based vallejo 'liquid gold' metallics and gw's shiny gloss mixes of earthshade & nuln oil, to see if I can't get a brighter, more striking gold trim going.

I'm curious how the gloss paints work on the gold, I've been using just nuln over the gold to tarnish it a little.

 

I find Nuln too harsh neet and prefer to just add a touch of it to Earthshade or Sepia. If your aim is a bright gold I highly recommend starting with a very light wash of Sepia and then just carefully build it up very strategically. It's surprising how quickly it darkens after the second layer. Keep a clean damp brush handy while you work and just put little smears and hits where you want and feather out the edge and it's not that hard to get really nice transitions.

[DuskRaider]

I'm painting mine up as Sons of Horus and running True Sons. It'll limit what I can bring to the table, but I think it'll be worth it. Purchased Some of Horus heads and the Command Squad off of FW as well. I may go back for the transfers too.

 

Edit: as for the gold, pretty much what Subtle said. Sepia will make it a more warm, rich gold while both Agrax Earthshade and Nuln Oil will make it aged. I personally prefer Agrax Earthshade, I like mine to look more worn.

[Sception]

Current plan is rich gold (thinned with isopropyl, 2 coats), wash with gloss earthshade, highlight with rich again, then rich mixed with the liquid silver, then 50/50 gloss earthshade/nuln oil mix around the rivets (might go non-gloss for this, since point is depth & making rivets stand out?), then pick out the rivets and maybe sharpest corners with just the silver. First test model just got the first wash out of that, looking ok so far.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

I think it's better go all in. Target saturation and all that; 6x5 havocs with 4 miniguns each is only 600 points (champ with bolt pistol and chainsword). That's also an insane amount of shots. For less than 400 pts you can add 3 dreadclaws for fun factor.

 

I don't know if I'm going to do that (yet), because the list is still wip, and formations to be decided.

 

Rule of 3. Can only have 3 units of Havocs in matched play games. 

 

 

Only in tournaments who enforce it. It's a suggestion, not a rule after all.

 

 

What? I thought it was for all matched play games. (That and it is enforced in tourneys that I have seen thankfully lol) 

 

 

 

 

It's in the Rulebook FAQ/Errata.

 

[Furnace Lord]

Oddball question, but in North America at what point value are games usually played? I thought I'd read that most limit armies to three detachments, as well. Just curious, as I plot out my army.

[Panzer]

Oddball question, but in North America at what point value are games usually played? I thought I'd read that most limit armies to three detachments, as well. Just curious, as I plot out my army.

 

Between 1001 and 2000 points so the 3 detachment limit applies for tournaments who care about it according to the table. ;)

[Ironandforge]

Im planning Alpha Legion, no limit on what i can use for models and rules.  

[Hellrender]

Questions

1) as red corsair, which is correct:
A: move - advance - shoot assault weapons - charge
b: move - advance - shoot OR charge

2) can i have a detachment of fallen to negate cp regen abilities, and still have my "main" detachment of x legion/renegade?

[Brother Aiwass]

Questions

 

1) as red corsair, which is correct:

A) move - advance - shoot assault weapons - charge

move - advance - shoot OR charge

 

2) can i have a detachment of fallen to negate cp regen abilities, and still have my "main" detachment of x legion/renegade?

A is correct :)

[the emperor is scottish]

 

However a name keeps surfacing in my head that I can't help but add to every time it does.

The wolves of horus.

 

"Hounds of Horus". Eh? Alliterative, if you like that.

 

Really loving those new Chaos Terminators. Also Havocs. Shame about the lack of chaincannons, but to be expected.

 

 

The reason i went with wolves was the idea came about thinking of how much freedom certain individuals would have had during the chaos of the heresy. Like Marines who under any other circumstance wouldn't have risen to a position of power or leadership now leading warbands. Librarians now free to use powers denied to them but in this case apothecaries able to conduct any type of experiment or twisted vise they see fit.  

In this case a SoH apothecary who tampers with gene seed and gene manipulation.  Failure after Failure greeting him until the 'success' of managing to splice the already ferocious Soh gene template with the savagery of The space wolves. 

 

Completely unsupported by the legion in this matter they either A) become a rogue element or B.) held on a tight leash my maloghurst and going unknown to Horus they become Maloghursts executioners. An axe above the head of anyone speaking out or even dare think about turning on Horus. 

 

I was trying to write some sort of short to better explain them but its not my forte and grammar and spelling always a struggled. I usually end up that frustrated and dejected what I've tried to write ends up as confete.

 

Could always go an easier rout and say they are space wolves turned traitor and swear themselves to horus.  

[Wayniac]

Oddball question, but in North America at what point value are games usually played? I thought I'd read that most limit armies to three detachments, as well. Just curious, as I plot out my army.

Usually 2k but YMMV depending on the place.  Typically though I find that whatever is "tournament standard" gets applied to all games regardless of if they are in a tournament or game night at the local game store.  Same reason why you see the "rule of 3" and "3 detachment" limit enforced all over.  Again, YMMV but from what I've seen those might as well have been adjustments to Matched Play as a whole since that's what they are treated as; core Matched Play rules not suggestions for organized events.  I have yet to meet anyone who didn't expect those to be enforced for any game, from the most casual to the most competitive.

[Iron_Within]

I think a weakness I'm worried about with havoc's is there restricted to 5 now, and despite the T5 there soft hell. One way I would protect them is hiding out of Los which is obvious, another is in a rhino.

Two chain gun havoc's in a rhino hiding out of Los the first turn will resist the no Los shots from the likes of mortars and they can get a nice 9" move to get into position.

96 shots (with endless cacophony) on the opening turn will ruin the day of any ig screen or Ork horde.

[adreal]

I think a weakness I'm worried about with havoc's is there restricted to 5 now, and despite the T5 there soft hell. One way I would protect them is hiding out of Los which is obvious, another is in a rhino.

Two chain gun havoc's in a rhino hiding out of Los the first turn will resist the no Los shots from the likes of mortars and they can get a nice 9" move to get into position.

96 shots (with endless cacophony) on the opening turn will ruin the day of any ig screen or Ork horde.

Make them -1 to hit, or -2 if nurgle, or -3 if alpha legion and nurgle

[techsoldaten]

I think a weakness I'm worried about with havoc's is there restricted to 5 now, and despite the T5 there soft hell. One way I would protect them is hiding out of Los which is obvious, another is in a rhino.

Two chain gun havoc's in a rhino hiding out of Los the first turn will resist the no Los shots from the likes of mortars and they can get a nice 9" move to get into position.

96 shots (with endless cacophony) on the opening turn will ruin the day of any ig screen or Ork horde.

 

For about 30 points more than a Rhino, you can get guaranteed delivery of those Havocs with a Termite Assault Drill.

 

The drill is big enough to block LOS on transported units and has outstanding melee. A pair of them is enough to assassinate a Knight, for instance.

[Sception]

does the drill arrive turn one, or does it show up turn 2 like deep striking units?  Ideally, I'd like havocs to be stripping screens turn one so that my deep striking unit can land in range to threaten key targets on the second turn.