Marshal Arthur Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 While I see your point with the importance of transport for the champ I’d prefer he stay a first born (unless of course they decide to do a first born and primaris Champion) So I can make use of the many transport options available for first born marines. I think Grimaldus would take to the primaris treatment well. He’s best used to buff larger units with volume of attacks and can footslog relatively well whereas Helbrecht is better used buffing small elite units with good AP (at least how I use him) and I prefer to keep him in a LRC or Stormraven with his sword brethren. Plus Grimaldus has the highest chance of surviving the Rubicon based on his fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 On second thought, Chaplains with +2" charge distance are a lot less useful than I thought since you can't have it active the same turn you Deep Strike the Chaplain. Nor can you use it when you are in a vehicle, so no +2 for charging out of a LRC so you have to take a Chaplain with Jump pack btw.... I dont think we get a Primaris treatment so fast. It will come but there are many other characters that: 1. need it because of designt 2. need it because the story 3. were (sadly) 1 founding chapter based There are Azrael, Dante, ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirtySixNights Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I mean having an option for both a primaris and a regular EC. For every type of crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 On second thought, Chaplains with +2" charge distance are a lot less useful than I thought since you can't have it active the same turn you Deep Strike the Chaplain.Nor can you use it when you are in a vehicle, so no +2 for charging out of a LRC so you have to take a Chaplain with Jump pack btw.... I dont think we get a Primaris treatment so fast. It will come but there are many other characters that: 1. need it because of designt 2. need it because the story 3. were (sadly) 1 founding chapter based There are Azrael, Dante, ... If GW threw IH a bone with a char and already made 2 for Ultras, they can easily give us one or 2 chars aswell. Dante and Azrael will have their time to shine on their own codex releases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 On second thought, Chaplains with +2" charge distance are a lot less useful than I thought since you can't have it active the same turn you Deep Strike the Chaplain. dont forget - just the chaplain have to be on board at the start of the battleround.... AND its not just +2 on charge - there is still 6" consolidate - WHAT is one of the most BT iconic rules I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Guys, have we also considered that if the Crusader's helm survives this transfer, out chaplains will have a much bigger aura as well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Guys, have we also considered that if the Crusader's helm survives this transfer, out chaplains will have a much bigger aura as well? Right now, without knowing what we get in Chapter specific relics, I think: ancient might leave my list. Wont invest in the Relic Standard atleast. Helm on a jumping Chaplain, who will be on the board turn 1. Means 24'' for that charge aura. ToT on marshal law Maybe we dont have to spend the points on the vigilus detachment anymore when we get our own supplement? How was it with Ultras and their special detachments? Indominatus crusaders became superflous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyWalrus Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Hey, if we're lucky the Sword Brethren stratagems might have been fixed to work on all Sword Brethren rather than just Company Veterans. 6 attacks at AP-1 reroll wound Vanguard Sword Brethren with the Assault Doctrine, or 4 attacks at AP-4 D3 reroll wounds and hitting on 3+ (thanks to the "Fury of the First" stratagem) TH/SS Terminator Sword Brethren? Sign me up! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST.Lazarus Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Guys, have we also considered that if the Crusader's helm survives this transfer, out chaplains will have a much bigger aura as well? It has survived but is a free for all relic now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyWalrus Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Guys, have we also considered that if the Crusader's helm survives this transfer, out chaplains will have a much bigger aura as well? It has survived but is a free for all relic now. Primaris only though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Hey, if we're lucky the Sword Brethren stratagems might have been fixed to work on all Sword Brethren rather than just Company Veterans. 6 attacks at AP-1 reroll wound Vanguard Sword Brethren with the Assault Doctrine, or 4 attacks at AP-4 D3 reroll wounds and hitting on 3+ (thanks to the "Fury of the First" stratagem) TH/SS Terminator Sword Brethren? Sign me up! but then we will loose the extra attack I think... But yes - this is what I hope so far. And a relic for Chaplains that they dont have to roll for buffs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Actually Kind of miffed that they arent pushing out the Supplements asap now. This means that for the next 14 days, barring a FAQ we cant really play our armies of said armies contain Crusader squads. Or we can via old books but loos the doctrines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I dont think that GW would make this too long... I think 2 weeks --> 2 Supplements Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Actually Kind of miffed that they arent pushing out the Supplements asap now. This means that for the next 14 days, barring a FAQ we cant really play our armies of said armies contain Crusader squads. Or we can via old books but loos the doctrines. I'm hella mad. Super annoyed by it. Way to kill the hype. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Laeroth Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Aye, it's a bit annoying. However, I should hope that GW would understand that removing a vital unique unit for a lot of Black Templars players is not a great idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Aye, it's a bit annoying. However, I should hope that GW would understand that removing a vital unique unit for a lot of Black Templars players is not a great idea. And hopefully they should understand that Templars, primaris or not, will always follow the same organisation method. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Well wrote a Mail asking for a short FAQ on "old" c:sm units ans fw units. Gonna meet some orks next month and want my Leviathan ready for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5364901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Surely the same principle applies to datasheets in the old codex as does the Indexes? So play Crusader Squads using the old sheet until our supplement comes out? Technically, however, those units don't have the 'Angels of Death' keyword. So if you're playing That Guy, he may argue that you can't use combat doctrines or the new rules... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 so there we have to wait. There is no other possiblilty. But what did you think we will get? I think its possible that we get +1 attack in the Assault phase. Maybe we get our vows back - but how should this work? Maybe in each doctrine there is a lithanie of battle always activated for each BT unit. Maybe a Stratagem before the game starts and choose one vow/lithanie Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Honestly I dont know what to expect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I think something akin to vows may replace what other chapters will gain with their specific librarius doctrines. But that also slightly depends upon which supplement we fall into. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 We'll likely get our special characters and some version of the crusader squad back but should we expect to get anything else tho ? We have a new extended chapter trait, did ultramarines and white scars get more than that ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Warlord traits, relics and librarius disciplines. Plus other data sheets. (I hope we get a new Chapter WL trait, Oathkeeper sucks.) Did the Vigilus UM detachment find its way into the new book? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kombatwombat Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Given that we’re in the Fists supplement, my best guess: -80% chance we get the same level of treatment as we got in Angels of Death - a token effort that doesn’t help us at all. -10% chance we get just datasheets for our unique units, and our existing relics/stratagems/warlord traits ported over, with special characters still locked to the awful one from the last codex -10% chance we get fair treatment and get something close to what the other chapters get Also, I would give my right arm to have a unique Librarius replaced with Vows for us... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyliadan Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 We'll likely get our special characters and some version of the crusader squad back but should we expect to get anything else tho ? We have a new extended chapter trait, did ultramarines and white scars get more than that ? Warlord traits, relics and librarius disciplines. Plus other data sheets. (I hope we get a new Chapter WL trait, Oathkeeper sucks.) Did the Vigilus UM detachment find its way into the new book? Both White Scars and Ultramarines got a universal rule that ties in with their prefered doctrine. I believe this is strong evidence that we will get one, and I'm willing to be it will be related to the Assault Doctrine. So far, what we can see from the Codex and the two supplements point out to GW really trying to pull Marines back to where they belong and trying to give flavour to the chapters. I understand the "once bitten, twice shy" way of thinking, but it would make no sense if we were left in the dust out of spite. I, for one, have faith. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357500-discussion-on-the-new-csm-possible-bt-supplement/page/12/#findComment-5365162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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