Iron Hands nerf?

[RandomMarine]

The Faq has been updated it has some actual nerfs in now but nothing to savage. IMO IH are still top tier but not op anymore

[Kallas]

The Faq has been updated it has some actual nerfs in now but nothing to savage. IMO IH are still top tier but not op anymore

 

Link for those who haven't seen it: warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/warhammer_40000_iron_hands_en-1.pdf?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40kfaq171019&fbclid=IwAR0qu_DLdUkXX-2JOFFve3rzbduDcMjD_KMqhJAyjTQEA77J8G4DgoIg-08

 

Run down:

1. Nerf to Feirros' invulnerable aura: now only affects Infantry units
2. Ironstone affects one vehicle, chosen at the start of each battle round
3. Character Dread strat can be used once per battle
4. Souls of Iron (4+ Deny strat) now 2CP
5. Optimal Repulsion Doctrines (+1 Overwatch strat) now 2CP
6. Machine Empathy (repair again strat) now can't target the same unit in the same turn
7. Reforge (repair psychic power) now can't target the a previously repaired unit in the same turn

Clarifications:

1. Yes, Ironstone applies after Duty Eternal (so halve, then -1)
2. March of the Ancients Dread can be Warlord/have a trait for being Warlord
3. Feirros' Signum Array can let a fully degraded model fire at BS2+

Edited October 17, 2019 by Kallas

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

 

The Faq has been updated it has some actual nerfs in now but nothing to savage. IMO IH are still top tier but not op anymore

Link for those who haven't seen it: warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/warhammer_40000_iron_hands_en-1.pdf?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40kfaq171019&fbclid=IwAR0qu_DLdUkXX-2JOFFve3rzbduDcMjD_KMqhJAyjTQEA77J8G4DgoIg-08

Okay, I think makes things way more manageable, feirrios is nowhere near as good now, ironstone got the Nerf it needed. Good stuff indeed, although it doesn't address the doctrine I think this is a really good start

 

Reforge nerf is good too, healing 9 wounds a turn was got healthy

Edited October 17, 2019 by TrawlingCleaner

[Ishagu]

This is actually a pretty good job from GW.

 

Iron Hands are still the strongest, but before any further nerfs it's worth seeing how they perform in more games.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Ishagu

[Kallas]

Okay, I think makes things way more manageable, feirrios is nowhere near as good now, ironstone got the Nerf it needed. Good stuff indeed, although it doesn't address the doctrine I think this is a really good start

 

It helps quite a lot. One of the big strengths of the Iron Hands was their capability to run a reasonably low CP list yet still have answers for a lot of things (eg, Souls of Iron only costing 1CP/2 with a reroll to deny a major psychic power). With a few stratagems nerfed to cost more, and the repairs no longer being able to massively repair a single target, it's potentially possible to now actually whittle down Iron Hands vehicles (dropped it to 1W? Cool, now you might be able to actually kill off those remaining 4W next turn, instead of having to chew through 9!)

 

Ironstone change is big, as it allows the opponent to target other hard targets: eg, against Air Force, if they protect one Stormhawk, you can target another and probably bring it down, whereas before they were insanely tough and there were no ideal targets.

 

Although I think with the change to the Ironstone we might see more Leviathans pop up, as they can really crank up the resilience still.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

All this does is tear down the castle. With Calculated Fury still in play, it will force Iron Hands out of bubbles and into a more mobile, dispersed playstyle...so the Iron Air Force is now even more attractive.

[Kallas]

All this does is tear down the castle. With Calculated Fury still in play, it will force Iron Hands out of bubbles and into a more mobile, dispersed playstyle...so the Iron Air Force is now even more attractive.

 

Air Force can't start off being functionally immune to alpha strikes now, which is something. It's still definitely the best way to play Iron Hands though.

 

Does mean that the castle is no longer an insane gatekeeper, which is definitely a good thing.

[Ishagu]

The Air Force might be limited in future to 3 flyers, I heard some people mention a possible matched play rule change.

At least the Iron Hands airforce can be hurt.

 

The changes are still very positive, but as you say they are strong and will continue to dominate. I don't mind them winning tournaments, just maybe not winning as many games across the board.

 

GW have impressed me.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Ishagu

[MeltaRange]

All this does is tear down the castle. With Calculated Fury still in play, it will force Iron Hands out of bubbles and into a more mobile, dispersed playstyle...so the Iron Air Force is now even more attractive.

 

I 100% agree that CF is too good, and wish they had nerfed it so that you don't get the re-roll to hit if you moved.  But, I'm still happy to see they did SOMETHING, and that that at least we are hurting the "boring" castle playstyle.

 

PS: Executioners get sold out, and then nerfed.  Still lots of Stormtalons/Stormhawks inventory in the warehouse! 

[Lemondish]

All this does is tear down the castle. With Calculated Fury still in play, it will force Iron Hands out of bubbles and into a more mobile, dispersed playstyle...so the Iron Air Force is now even more attractive.

That's what actually makes these changes valuable. The Ironstone was a key piece that helped the Air Force survive alpha strike. It's no longer viable. Feirros also can't contribute.

 

Folks will struggle to adjust to a universally dominant faction with so many list build options, but those options just got weaker.

[Ishagu]

The Executioners are still rock solid. Maybe best with Imperial Fists now, hard to say.

 

This was a good way to lower the power. The unit isn't functionally over powered, it was a case of faction specific rule layering.

[Aothaine]

So happy with these changes. It didn't do anything to the power of my Land Speeder list idea! Woop! Still going to wait until Jan before I start purchasing, building and painting but things are looking good for my Iron Hands Scout force! :D

[quasistellar]

The Faq has been updated it has some actual nerfs in now but nothing to savage. IMO IH are still top tier but not op anymore

lol the loss of 5+ vehicle invuln is gigantic and pretty much makes Feirros a no go for competitive play.

[Ishagu]

He's still good, now his points are fair.

 

You can still have Centurions with a 1+ 5++ 5+++

Edited October 17, 2019 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

These are all fair changes but GW should have just released the second faq only.

[Lemondish]

 

 

The Faq has been updated it has some actual nerfs in now but nothing to savage. IMO IH are still top tier but not op anymore

lol the loss of 5+ vehicle invuln is gigantic and pretty much makes Feirros a no go for competitive play.

Stealthy still makes those units essentially 5++ against anything AP-3 and it doesn't rely on being inside an aura.

 

I wonder if we'll see some space marine codex nerfs eventually, perhaps once the full gamut of supplements is released. Some of the problems come from there, that's for sure.

[MeltaRange]

 

Stealthy still makes those units essentially 5++ against anything AP-3 and it doesn't rely on being inside an aura.

 

I wonder if we'll see some space marine codex nerfs eventually, perhaps once the full gamut of supplements is released. Some of the problems come from there, that's for sure.

 

 

Kinda, but not really.  There are a fair number of things that ignore cover, or increase the AP of weapons. (Dev Doctrine) Plus, it's 12" or more, so Melta weapons in particular get a huge buff against IH.

 

Also, they lose the 6+ FNP if they take Stealthy.

 

I do agree that some of the successor tactics could probably use a re balance!

Edited October 17, 2019 by MeltaRange

[brÖtherIrön]

Now everyone is happy, my list still works and I do not have useless models on a shelf. Remember kids, if you are the new hot stuff, let it cool down. Now enjoy your 40 Bucks Mustache-Guy and your unkillable castle and your Air Force is next, but regretabble for all of us Marine Players. I would just be upset of Cogitated Martyrdom would be 2 CP, because Dreadnougts need some love and I hate snipers!

Edited October 17, 2019 by brÖtherIrön

[Johanhgg]

I dont care about these so called nerfs. The changes were good for the game. How fun is it to play an almost auto-winning army?

 

Even without ironstone IH are very strong. Doctrine, overwatch and other things still make IH a very strong army.

[Aothaine]

I would just be upset of Cogitated Martyrdom would be 2 CP, because Dreadnougts need some love and I hate snipers!

 

But do you hate them as much as this guy hates Peter Pan?

 

 

Anyway...

 

I hope people chill now lol! I would love to go into 2020 with the Iron Hands as they are now. Really hope my dream is not ruined and that I can bring out the Land Speeders I have wanted to play for years finally.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Aothaine

[Happy-inquisitor]

All this does is tear down the castle. With Calculated Fury still in play, it will force Iron Hands out of bubbles and into a more mobile, dispersed playstyle...so the Iron Air Force is now even more attractive.

 

Yes and no. The fact that the Iron Air Force can now suffer an alpha-strike is a very big deal for it. Previously when facing a potential alpha-strike it could just castle up for 5++ and a full Ironstone protection and laugh it off, now if they are not going first they are going to take the pain. I think it is probably one of the best of the IH lists now - after all the Flyers are exactly the unit you would design to make the most of their doctrine - but they are top tier now rather than OP tier.

[Rodrick]

lol what, for 110 point , feirros is still great, auto heal 3,  signum? . 5+ invul for centurions or mass stalker rifle intercessors. now is just more balanced

 

Now everyone is happy, my list still works and I do not have useless models on a shelf. Remember kids, if you are the new hot stuff, let it cool down. Now enjoy your 40 Bucks Mustache-Guy and your unkillable castle and your Air Force is next, but regretabble for all of us Marine Players. I would just be upset of Cogitated Martyrdom would be 2 CP, because Dreadnougts need some love and I hate snipers!

[Aothaine]

Something I find really funny here is that people were complaining that IH let flyers move and fire heavy weapons with no penalty. Did they forget about Power of the Machine Spirit? 

 

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Also, anyone know if GW is going to update pdf versions of the codex with this new info?

Edited October 17, 2019 by Aothaine

[quasistellar]

 

 

The Faq has been updated it has some actual nerfs in now but nothing to savage. IMO IH are still top tier but not op anymore

lol the loss of 5+ vehicle invuln is gigantic and pretty much makes Feirros a no go for competitive play.

Stealthy still makes those units essentially 5++ against anything AP-3 and it doesn't rely on being inside an aura.

 

I wonder if we'll see some space marine codex nerfs eventually, perhaps once the full gamut of supplements is released. Some of the problems come from there, that's for sure.

 

Exactly. This errata missed all the things that are actually winning the games and only targeted math hammer junk.

[Kallas]

Something I find really funny here is that people were complaining that IH let flyers move and fire heavy weapons with no penalty. Did they forget about Power of the Machine Spirit? 

 

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

That's for only a select few vehicles, which are almost all quite expensive. Most Marine vehicles lack PotMS, and some of them (eg, Stormhawks) are very good with it.