New Mephiston/Psychic awakening p3

[SnorriSnorrison]

Uhm, so ...

 

 

 

I'm not sure about you guys, but DC Intercessors as Elite choice is a hard pass for me. Regular Intercessors punch almost as hard, the 6+++ is unreliable anyway and even Reivers would be a better Elite choice imo since they can at least deep strike.

Considering that vanilla Marines get Veteran Intercessors, which get +1A as well, as Troop choice I'm pretty disappointed.

Not sure why you’re surprised we're NOT getting a DC troops choice, seeing as DC have been Elites since 5th edition.

 

As I said before, I dislike the idea of primaris DC and that we’d been better off with Veteran Intercessors. Now there’s why.

 

On another note - yaaaasss on the SG changes!! Point drops, stratagems, gimme, gimme! Can’t wait!

[Panzer]

 

Uhm, so ...

 

 

 

I'm not sure about you guys, but DC Intercessors as Elite choice is a hard pass for me. Regular Intercessors punch almost as hard, the 6+++ is unreliable anyway and even Reivers would be a better Elite choice imo since they can at least deep strike.

Considering that vanilla Marines get Veteran Intercessors, which get +1A as well, as Troop choice I'm pretty disappointed.

Not sure why you’re surprised we're NOT getting a DC troops choice, seeing as DC have been Elites since 5th edition.

 

As I said before, I dislike the idea of primaris DC and that we’d been better off with Veteran Intercessors. Now there’s why.

 

On another note - yaaaasss on the SG changes!! Point drops, stratagems, gimme, gimme! Can’t wait!

 

 

Because the DC are literally just Veteran Intercessors with a 6+++ (and seemingly a second melee weapon). Veteran Intercessors are still Troop choices despite Veterans having been Elites since forever as well. Not sure what your argument here is.

[Blindhamster]

Really hope we also get veteran intercessors as a strat if DC intercessors are a standard unit...

 

I know it wont happen but really do want it to

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

 

Uhm, so ...

I'm not sure about you guys, but DC Intercessors as Elite choice is a hard pass for me. Regular Intercessors punch almost as hard, the 6+++ is unreliable anyway and even Reivers would be a better Elite choice imo since they can at least deep strike.

Considering that vanilla Marines get Veteran Intercessors, which get +1A as well, as Troop choice I'm pretty disappointed. :ermm:

 

Not sure why you’re surprised we're NOT getting a DC troops choice, seeing as DC have been Elites since 5th edition.

As I said before, I dislike the idea of primaris DC and that we’d been better off with Veteran Intercessors. Now there’s why.

On another note - yaaaasss on the SG changes!! Point drops, stratagems, gimme, gimme! Can’t wait!

 

Because the DC are literally just Veteran Intercessors with a 6+++ (and seemingly a second melee weapon). Veteran Intercessors are still Troop choices despite Veterans having been Elites since forever as well. Not sure what your argument here is.

They’re also missing a few bats in their tower, so not really suited for holding objectives, as @Djangomatic82 pointed out. That’s the point I was trying to bring across.

 

Sucks about the Interc. Veterans, though.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Uhm, so ...

I'm not sure about you guys, but DC Intercessors as Elite choice is a hard pass for me. Regular Intercessors punch almost as hard, the 6+++ is unreliable anyway and even Reivers would be a better Elite choice imo since they can at least deep strike.

Considering that vanilla Marines get Veteran Intercessors, which get +1A as well, as Troop choice I'm pretty disappointed.

Not sure why you’re surprised we're NOT getting a DC troops choice, seeing as DC have been Elites since 5th edition.

As I said before, I dislike the idea of primaris DC and that we’d been better off with Veteran Intercessors. Now there’s why.

On another note - yaaaasss on the SG changes!! Point drops, stratagems, gimme, gimme! Can’t wait!

 

Because the DC are literally just Veteran Intercessors with a 6+++ (and seemingly a second melee weapon). Veteran Intercessors are still Troop choices despite Veterans having been Elites since forever as well. Not sure what your argument here is.

They’re also missing a few bats in their tower, so not really suited for holding objectives, as @Djangomatic82 pointed out. That’s the point I was trying to bring across.

 

Sucks about the Interc. Veterans, though.

 

 

Eh that's a weak argument. Cultists and Kroot aren't exactly reliable to hold objectives either but they are still Troops. .

Edited November 28, 2019 by Morticon
removed unnecessary direction

[Knaru]

Is there confirmation that the Veteran Intercessor Strategem is not in the book, or is that an assumption? 

And, if it is in there, perhaps it can be applied to Death Company Intercessors...

[toaae]

Yeah, DC intercessors are dead to me. A real shame.

But I'm excited for Sanguinary Guard! I love the unit, and I'm happy to see both more point drops AND stratagem support!

[Panzer]

Is there confirmation that the Veteran Intercessor Strategem is not in the book, or is that an assumption? 

 

And, if it is in there, perhaps it can be applied to Death Company Intercessors...

 

Not 100% confirmed, but it's to be expected. The chance for there to be a Veteran Intercessor Stratagem is really really slim.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Eh that's a weak argument. Cultists and Kroot aren't exactly reliable to hold objectives either but they are still Troops. Don't try to combine fluff and crunch like that.

I would dare to disagree, good sir. It’s an argument based on the background and an excellent one. It would be silly if a DC unit had the Objective Secured rule, no matter which section of our codex it’s drawn from.

Cultists and kroot don’t necessarily jump at the next piece of (un)living flesh and tear it to pieces, they have a will to live. Death Company do not. Therefore, it makes sense that they do not score. They only rend and die.

 

Edit: quotation format

Edited November 27, 2019 by SnorriSnorrison

[Panzer]

 

Eh that's a weak argument. Cultists and Kroot aren't exactly reliable to hold objectives either but they are still Troops. Don't try to combine fluff and crunch like that.

I would dare to disagree, good sir. It’s an argument based on the background and an excellent one. It would be silly if a DC unit had the Objective Secured rule, no matter which section of our codex it’s drawn from.

Cultists and kroot don’t necessarily jump at the next piece of (un)living flesh and tear it to pieces, they have a will to live. Death Company do not. Therefore, it makes sense that they do not score. They only rend and die.

 

Edit: quotation format

 

 

If the ObSec were this much of a problem they could have simply said that they don't have ObSec, really.

Deathcompany don't necessarily jump at the next piece of living flesh and tear it to pieces either, you know. They aren't completely mindless berserkers or else they wouldn't be able to use their Bolter anymore either.

So I stick with what I said. It's a weak argument.

[toaae]

My problem with DC being Elite is solely gameplay. I need to fill Troop slots for CP. There just isn't space to buy intercessors that aren't troops.

[Panzer]

My problem with DC being Elite is solely gameplay. I need to fill Troop slots for CP. There just isn't space to buy intercessors that aren't troops.

 

Same. As Troop slot they would've been a decent option. As Elite slot I have to pay for them on top of the Troop slots and so other Elite/FA/HS slots are simply way more attractive than Intercessors with an additional attack and a 6+++.

[Klod]

 

You might want to play Blood Angels in a different time. Where there wasn't Dante and Co.

Or maybe 1.000 years later in the future, and say that at this point those guys are all dead, and my Characters are the new Chapter Master/Chief Librarian/etc.

That's not how the rules work Im afraid. The codexes are very much all "set" in the current 40k timeline. Except Tycho.

 

 

What about the Stratagems that let you make a Chapter Master/Chief Librarian/etc. regardless of your Chapter?

You can have an Ultramarine Chapter Master Mc.Smash-face in your army as long as you don't take Calgar.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

 

Eh that's a weak argument. Cultists and Kroot aren't exactly reliable to hold objectives either but they are still Troops. Don't try to combine fluff and crunch like that.

 

I would dare to disagree, good sir. It’s an argument based on the background and an excellent one. It would be silly if a DC unit had the Objective Secured rule, no matter which section of our codex it’s drawn from.

Cultists and kroot don’t necessarily jump at the next piece of (un)living flesh and tear it to pieces, they have a will to live. Death Company do not. Therefore, it makes sense that they do not score. They only rend and die.

Edit: quotation format

 

If the ObSec were this much of a problem they could have simply said that they don't have ObSec, really.

Deathcompany don't necessarily jump at the next piece of living flesh and tear it to pieces either, you know. They aren't completely mindless berserkers or else they wouldn't be able to use their Bolter anymore either.So I stick with what I said. It's a weak argument.

Operating a trigger mechanism in order to kill before jumping into said target is very much in the possibility of rending and then hoping to die. They are most certainly mindless berserkers once the Rage fully grips them.

 

Weak or not, Primaris DC won’t be troops for at least a good while. Make of that what you wish.

[Panzer]

 

Weak or not, Primaris DC won’t be troops for at least a good while. Make of that what you wish.

 

You don't say. That's the whole point of what we are talking about. 

[Indefragable]

<snip>

 

I'm not sure about you guys, but DC Intercessors as Elite choice is a hard pass for me. Regular Intercessors punch almost as hard, the 6+++ is unreliable anyway and even Reivers would be a better Elite choice imo since they can at least deep strike.

Considering that vanilla Marines get Veteran Intercessors, which get +1A as well, as Troop choice I'm pretty disappointed. 

 

 

 

Eh that's a weak argument. Cultists and Kroot aren't exactly reliable to hold objectives either but they are still Troops. Don't try to combine fluff and crunch like that.

I would dare to disagree, good sir. It’s an argument based on the background and an excellent one. It would be silly if a DC unit had the Objective Secured rule, no matter which section of our codex it’s drawn from.

Cultists and kroot don’t necessarily jump at the next piece of (un)living flesh and tear it to pieces, they have a will to live. Death Company do not. Therefore, it makes sense that they do not score. They only rend and die.

 

Edit: quotation format

 

 

 

My problem with DC being Elite is solely gameplay. I need to fill Troop slots for CP. There just isn't space to buy intercessors that aren't troops.

 

From a gameplay perspective, unless there are some pretty serious Strategems we have yet to hear about and/or the ability to take multiple "real" CQWs (power swords, TH's, etc...) with them, DC Intercessors are pretty much dead on arrival for me if they are an Elites choice. As others have pointed out, Troops continue to be a bit of a tax in some ways, and so it would be an interesting way to shift the heavy lifting to the Troops slot for us. The other issue is that almost half our book is Elites choices.....there's a thread somewhere where I counted them. We are absolutely stacked at Elites and HQs, even more so than other power armored factions (why I would love to see VV. Reivers, and maybe Furiosos go ino FA slots, but different topic.

 

If DC had rules that better depicted their fluff than I would agree they should never be able to be OBSEC. But as they are now, obsec away.

 

 

******

As for these latest rumors...

 

- ...I am over the moon with the Death Masls = -1 To Hit thing. I've always thought they should do more, like give an invuln. -1 To Hit is sahweet especially in Dante and the Sanguinor.

 

-Love the sound of a +2" movement banner, though i makes me worried that the Standard of Sacrifice may be no more.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Indefragable

[VanDutch]

Looks like sales of Sanguinary Guard have dropped then! I enjoyed playing them but I'd recently started playing Inceptors more. This might give me a reason to dust them off (and finish painting them).

[Spagunk]

Sanguinary Guard boost may bring me back to playing 40k. Remains to be seen what happens, of course.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

*Looks at 20 sanguinary Guard*
*looks at rumors*

So....*heavy breathing* This is going to be legit...

[Aztek]

Happy with the Sanguinary Guard changes as a new Angel! Definitely gonna have to paint some up. I'm not quite so sure DC intercessors are as dead on arrival as you guys are. Thinking about trying out a squad of 10 with 2 Thunder Hammers in an impulsor. I guess it becomes whether they're anymore efficient than regular Intercessors while costing a slight premium and taking up an Elite slot. I'm open minded about them I guess.

[Chronos1985]

Now if we can get boosts to our Terminators. Those models are too beautiful to be sitting on the shelf. 

[Panzer]

I'm not quite so sure DC intercessors are as dead on arrival as you guys are. Thinking about trying out a squad of 10 with 2 Thunder Hammers in an impulsor. I guess it becomes whether they're anymore efficient than regular Intercessors while costing a slight premium and taking up an Elite slot. I'm open minded about them I guess.

 

The thing is that you have to fill your Troop slots and unless you are going with Vanguard or classic Marines you'll have at least 3x5 Intercessors already. DC Intercessors are only a little bit better than regular Intercessors so since you already have a bunch of regular Intercessors you'd be better off investing those ~200p into something you don't already get via Troops, like Inceptors, Hellblasters, Aggressors, Suppressors, Eliminators ... heck even Reivers since they are cheap-ish deep striking infantry.

 

What would you rather have?

 

3x5 Intercessors with Thunderhammer (assuming they get access to it like everyone else)

1x10 DC Intercessors with two Thunderhammers

= 515p

 

or

 

3x5 Intercessors with Thunderhammer

1x10 Sanguinary Guard with Encarmine Sword and Angelus Boltgun

= 512p

 

or if we want to stick with just Primaris

 

3x5 Intercessors with Thunderhammer

1x4 Inceptors with Assault bolters

= 525p

 

 

If they were Troops we could do something like this instead:

2x5 Intercessors with Thunderhammer

1x10 DC Intercessors with two Thunderhammers

= 414p, so about 100p left to spend on something else like Eliminators or Suppressors or 3 Inceptors with Assault bolters etc.

 

So basically, having them as Elite forces us to take another Troops unit which means they are about 50-100 points more expensive than they would be as Troops.

 

Also I wouldn't put them in an Impulsor. It limits their unit size to max 6 (I wouldn't be surprised if the second melee weapon only unlocks at 10 models) and you can't use its special disembark rule to charge out of it anyway. If you want to transport them better use a regular Repulsor instead imo.

Edited November 27, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Charlo]

Current rumour (same source as the others above)...

 

Red Thirst now ALSO  grants +1 to Charge & Advance rolls.

 

BIG. IF. TRUE.

 

Transhuman Physiology Strat is also apparently in the book.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Charlo

[Panzer]

Charlo beat me to it. :D

[Xenith]

Current rumour (same source as the others above)...

 

Red Thirst now ALSO grants +1 to Charge & Advance rolls.

 

BIG. IF. TRUE.

 

Transhuman Physiology Strat is also apparently in the book.

Makes sense. I wanted BA to be the angelic fast moving guys, and FT to be the murder makers. If both have the +1 to wound as the standard trait of Sanguinius's gene line, then add extra garnish for flavour, I'll be super happy.