Psychic Awakening 2 rumours

[Kilamandaros]

I agree with Sete, it definitely feels like they're trying to promote Templars as the 'old marine' chapter. Fine by me as I don't play Primaris but will no doubt irk those who do.

[Medjugorje]

I hope there are more leaks in the next week. I want to know about the other relics ( is there any thing what really help the whole army).

 

I know the sword is very fluffy but i prefer relics which buff a lot more or keep the wearer alive - we have enough output with our normal weapons.

[Marshal Arthur]

I agree that the doctrine bonus is disappointing but overall I'm happy with these new rules. The previewed litany might be difficult to pull off but can be incredibly powerful when it works. The LRC stratagem is fantastic, not just for elite assault units for also for a large crusader squad trying to tie up multiple shooty enemies at once (this will be especially useful with the stratagem to prevent enemies from falling back), and overall it feels fluffy and fun. Iron Hands and Imperial Fists may be the more competitive choice but Templars will definitely be fun and powerful in the right situation.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

The Litany not being an aura is slightly problematic, upon reflection. If you have first turn it doesn't matter. But if you go second, you have to inspire, then select the unit immediately, if I understand correctly? This means that you can only pick a single unit, and thus you're designating that unit as a primary target. The bonus only gets added on charge, so you wouldn't pick one that is already in combat, meaning the unit you pick is on the table, and not protected. I guess that means that the litany is more of a 'If I go first, I can increase damage, but if I'm going second, I can at least dictate target priority.' I just don't know that we can field enough big units and special buffs to be able to afford sacrificing them like that. Not trying to be a downer or nay sayer, having our own rules is going to be a ton better than what I've been working with, but the more I study just what we've seen, the less it all seems to work together. Need to get my hands on the rest.

 

Funnily enough, if LItany's get changed to inspire at the end of Your movement phase, and remain until your next movement phase, then our entire book suddenly fixes itself and everything snaps into place. Wonder if that's one of the balance changes we might see somewhere down the line.

[Crusader7]

I agree, the doctrine buff is pretty disappointing simply due to it being worse than White Scars ON TOP of doing nothing to vehicles which is where it would be the strongest.

 

Regardless, it's time to start thinking about how to best use some of our new rules. If we get strategems that allow us to get keep the enemy stuck in maybe some squads of ccw scouts could be effective. Take in a squad of 10 they aren't terribly expensive and can hit fairly hard for their price point. If you can break up the enemies lines early if may make time for our heavy hitters to come into the fray.

[Brother Talarian]

Agreed.

 

That would be the best approach. Identify how we can use our tools to eliminate the enemy rather than sit and complain.

 

Once all the rules come out I’m sure we can all devise excellent new strategies and synergies.

[Ciler]

It’s important to note that the WS trait only comes into play if they charge or heroically intervene. Ours is active in any given situation and is better in prolonged fights.

Nope, ours is also only on the charge...

[Medjugorje]

At the moment there is no real rule what can used to make a systematic list around of it. Its just that our already concepts are being a bit better then before.

 

A Sword Relic - maybe an option for a charakter but not for a list - Just change the performance of this character ( not even sure if its better than any other relic - like Teeth of Terra)

LRC Stratagem - maybe 2-3 LRC with fully packed Crusader squads and two chaplains with Jump packs who move with the LRC and one cast +1 Attack (new Lithany) and the other is Caticle of hate. Its fluffy but not very strong.

New WL-Trait - is a nice fluffy gimmik but nothing more. It could be very strong but you cant build a list beyond that.

New ruleset of Helbrecht - same as above (the relic), it makes him better but doesnt change how to play him/ new option.

[Ciler]

The LRC stratagem is fantastic,

Is it though ? You do remember that you must disembark before the LRC moves, which means that said LRC must have been within 3+6+12' of your intended target (and assuming the both LRC survives one turn that close from an opponent and said opponent doesn't move back).

[Sword Brother Adelard]

You can also only use it one unit that disembarks from one LRC per phase. So in order to get the best utility out of it you need either a 16 man Crusader Squad, or 8 man Assault Termies.

 

None of this changes the fact that LRCs just don't cut the mustard. They have to get in close, wait around and then hope not to get charged, which they will. At which point they become useless

 

You could get the same result from a chaplain and a squad of suppressors.

[Schlitzaf]

They also mention changes to the Crusader, EC, Grim, and Servitors data sheet!

 

I’m really hyped.

RIP 12” Shock Immune. Otherwise hyped

[redmapa]

I do hope the Servitors go back to becoming some sort of relic/special wargear with more than one effect to choose from. I miss my normal Chaplains having Cenobyte Servitors AND Grimaldus and being able to get +1A from one and then the other.

[Ado]

I was initially optimistic for these new rules and whilst they are fluffy, I don't think they are going to change anything when it comes to me entering local tournaments. I just can't see me being able to keep enough stuff alive into the Assault phase to make what's been revealed as truly useful. That said, I'm still hoping for more stratagems and potential combos that could be more effective and game changing. It's frustrating that we've waited so long but then, at first glance, looks like we're getting rules to make us "fluffy" again but still a long way from being as competitive (some would say OP) as other chapters. But there in lies the problem, I think they have been too generous with the other chapters and hence I probably got my hopes up too much.

[Ciler]

Yes indeed, you may be quite right on that count.

[SydonianDragoon404]

I've found many of my games to be won or lost prior to turn 3 or on turn 3. The game just that lethal now. I play Maelstrom too, so sometimes you get f'd over by your cards, sometimes you win because of them. 

 

I could go off on a tangent about how this game and the matchups even with a tournament style format and plenty of terrain on the board is faaaaar too focused on who goes first and how this game desperately needs an alternate activation shooting phase like Kill Team but I won't since this isn't the proper thread for it and the mods here loooove to make sure we don't ever stray off topic from a forum post. 

 

Anyway, my hope is that since it appears most of the rumors we got early on rules wise were correct, I hope the one where we get a stratagem to make a unit be in the assault doctrine for a turn is true.  

[Brother Talarian]

 

It’s important to note that the WS trait only comes into play if they charge or heroically intervene. Ours is active in any given situation and is better in prolonged fights.

Nope, ours is also only on the charge...

Yes. I wrote that before the article got published.

 

————

 

Any rules make us better. This is a good thing.

If you’ve been playing with your army until now it will simply get better and have new stratagems to play with.

 

We’re not getting nerfed. Man...

[jaxom]

I was initially optimistic for these new rules and whilst they are fluffy, I don't think they are going to change anything when it comes to me entering local tournaments. I just can't see me being able to keep enough stuff alive into the Assault phase to make what's been revealed as truly useful. That said, I'm still hoping for more stratagems and potential combos that could be more effective and game changing. It's frustrating that we've waited so long but then, at first glance, looks like we're getting rules to make us "fluffy" again but still a long way from being as competitive (some would say OP) as other chapters. But there in lies the problem, I think they have been too generous with the other chapters and hence I probably got my hopes up too much.

 

I think part of it is the design team sticking to the choice to keep BT as a codex army (at least at the moment). Another other part is how much of the power comes from stratagems; it's been an emotional roller coaster for many of the supplements until all the stratagems are available to look at (e.g. Salamanders).

 

Lastly, I think there's probably a massive ongoing discussion in the design studio regarding 8th edition and mixed profile units. A scout is worth X points as a model in a Scout unit in a normal marine unit; does the scout become more valuable in a Crusader unit  because you can remove it against a lascannon while tanking lasgun fire with the power armor? Is that worth working out as a unit design if you toss 2W Primaris into the mix (and then should the scout be even more valuable because you can allocate D2 and higher weapons to protect the Primaris)?

 

Looking at today's information here's my take away:

• Any Chapter Tactic unit with a plasma weapon that overheats with "mortal wound" wording rather than "remove as casualty" wording is more attractive.
• The Movement phase will, more so than normal, be the most important phase for Black Templars and one's deployment and disembarking game must be on point all the time; the BT are (to me at least) an Advanced Army because of this.
• Disembarkation tricks and vehicles charge-blocking (the vehicle charges to get a unit closer or to block an enemy unit or moves to be in the way of an enemy charge) tricks are going to be vital to preserve the Knights of Sigismund benefit.
• Target priority in turn 1 Devastator Doctrine will be a very important factor. Threats to transports need to be neutralized and blobs need to be cut down to a size that they can't prevent a unit from disembarking (Tactical Doctrine can help with that).
• Shock and Awe is a defensive doctrine (no overwatch and -1 to hit in the Assault phase is awesome, but it requires the LRC) so I think there are probably more of those in the book.
• A 10 man Veteran Intercessor squad backed up with a Primaris Apothecary and Primaris Chaplain makes for a good central infantry unit to take advantage of Tactical Doctrine along side your hurricane bolters on the LRC. If you want to (hopefully) keep pace with transports, give them Autobolt rifles. If you want to have more flexibility, give them bolt rifles, spend a few CP (Rapid Fire and Steady Advance) and let loose. If they got shot at, great, it keeps other units safe. If they don't get shot at, great, they can pump out 40 Str 4 AP-2 shots or (on the charge) 40 Str 4 AP-1 autohit and autowound on 6s attacks.

[Marshal Vespasian]

A swordmaster generates and additional Hit on 6es. Does that mean he'll generate two wounds on 6es now?

[Acebaur]

A swordmaster generates and additional Hit on 6es. Does that mean he'll generate two wounds on 6es now?

Yes!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

A swordmaster generates and additional Hit on 6es. Does that mean he'll generate two wounds on 6es now?

I don't think so.

 

This was the ruling, in the C:SM FAQ on similar rules interactions:

 

"Q: If an ability or rule generates an additional hit (e.g. the Siege Masters Chapter Tactic or Whirlwind of Rage), do these additional hits gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?

 

A: No. If any additional hits are scored as the result of a particular hit roll, those additional hits are not considered to have been made with any hit roll – they simply hit the target and you must continue the attack sequence for them (i.e. make a wound roll).

 

Designer’s Note: In the previous iteration of this FAQ, this question was ruled differently. Since that document was published, unintended combinations have come to light (such as some players interpreting that this allowed an infinite hit loop, effectively destroying any unit in the game as soon as a single 6 to hit is rolled – which was obviously never the intent of the rule), as well as that ruling being used as a precedent for similar abilities in other publications. As such, we have changed the answer to this question to ensure a more rewarding experience for all players."

 

Therefore, I think you roll a 6, generate an auto wound with the doctrine bonus, and then have an extra die to roll to wound.

[jaxom]

Incursors are also fun as their unmodified 6's will also generate an additional attack. The more I think about it the more I see a "competitive" BT army being a front-wave of Incursors, Infiltrators, and Invictors and a second-wave of LRCs with Crusader Squads and Assault Terminators. Give the opponent a lot to think about regarding target priority.

[MagicMan]

The first Space Marine Warhammer Community article in a while where none of the pictures use Primaris.

Usually I'm struggling to find the Tactical Squad lurking in the back...

That Assault Squad look like a new studio unit, too. 

I notice they've flipped on the Templars hating Psykers again, too. For a while it was ''The Black Templars don't hate Psykers, they just cant remember how to put on a Librarians hood.''

Both of these things please me.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

 

A swordmaster generates and additional Hit on 6es. Does that mean he'll generate two wounds on 6es now?

Yes!

 

 

 

Actually no. While initially yes, after some turds started using this as a justification for infinite loops of hits when combining several 6 hit strats, GW threw up their hands and said that any abilities that grant extra hits on 6+ count all extra hits as nebulous. IE, you get 1 auto wound and 1 hit you have to roll for normally.

[Acebaur]

 

 

A swordmaster generates and additional Hit on 6es. Does that mean he'll generate two wounds on 6es now?

Yes!

 

 

 

Actually no. While initially yes, after some turds started using this as a justification for infinite loops of hits when combining several 6 hit strats, GW threw up their hands and said that any abilities that grant extra hits on 6+ count all extra hits as nebulous. IE, you get 1 auto wound and 1 hit you have to roll for normally.

 

 

That's so lame. Leave it to the WAAC players to ruin it for the rest of us. 

[Brother Talarian]

This is from the proclaimed OP chapter:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/09/space-marines-preview-sons-of-ferrus-manusgw-homepage-post-3/

 

Do they look incredibly OP from the article?

 

Have faith, brothers....