Prot's Quickie Battle Report: Tau vs Aeldari Craftworlds

[Prot]

First off this isn't cut throat, but it is Tau. So lots of drones, and with Chapter Approved 2019, the Tau enter the new year with perhaps some interesting options including cheaper Ghostkeels, and even Stormsurges.


My Tau oppoent brought out some known baddies and some other stuff to keep it real. Here's his list approximately from memory:
Shadowsun, another HQ (Metal model. Don't know the name.) 1 Stormsurge, 1 Riptide, tons of drones. A thin line of Kroot, a character that shoots a maker light. A squad of maker light dudes. 3 of the heavier (Crisis?) battlesuits. 2 x 3 Stealthsuits, Ghostkeel w/ 2 drones. Probably a few things I'm forgetting.

My Eldar List was like so:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [91 PL, -1CP, 1,630pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute

. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Spiritseer [3 PL, 55pts]: 3. Ghostwalk, 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 62pts]: 0. Smite, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender

. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Elites +

Howling Banshees [6 PL, -1CP, 80pts]

. 6x Howling Banshee: 6x Power Sword

. Howling Banshee Exarch: Shuriken Pistol & Executioner

. . Exarch Power: Exemplar of the Banshee Shrine, Graceful Avoidance, War Shout

Wraithblades [20 PL, 315pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 9x Wraithblade

+ Heavy Support +

Night Spinner [8 PL, 112pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Flyer +

Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 190pts]: Two Bright Lances

. Exarch Power: Evade

Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 159pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [22 PL, 369pts] ++

+ HQ +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 111pts]: Fusion Gun, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [7 PL, 153pts]

. 4x Dark Reaper: 4x Reaper Launcher

. Dark Reaper Exarch: Aeldari Missile Launcher

. . Exarch Power: Rapid Shot

Support Weapons [3 PL, 35pts]

. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon

Support Weapons [3 PL, 35pts]

. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon

Support Weapons [3 PL, 35pts]

. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Aeldari - Craftworlds) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute

. *Custom Craftworld*: Wrath of the Dead

++ Total: [113 PL, -1CP, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The Game:

We are playing one of the new Maelstroms. (Just love these since CA19). This one allows your opponent to select one of your activated cards and return it to your 5 card hand, and you can replace it with another selection.

We end up playing the "Pointy" Dawn of War map. My opponent gets first turn.... Tau with first turn. Fun fun fun!

- Basically he deploys first. Very typically the Tau are strung out along the back line. I do whatever I can to make it super hard for him to kill anything. If he gives me first turn, it will give me a chance to Psychic buff my army.

- You can see my (partial) deployment. There's not a lot to shoot at and I keep my freshly painted Crimson Hunter Exarch (CHE) in the back corner. He fails to kill anything beyond a single squad of Rangers. It's about the only thing he could have killed, but he does plink away at some of the Vibro Cannons.

He also jumps his Ghost Keel (left) up to start trying to flush out my Vibro's, but I do have my (Proxied) 5 man Dark Reaper squad.

Tau Deploy and and aside from his (hidden) stealth suits, you can see most of his army.

Since we have some actual line of sight blocking, I jump my bike HQ's up and failed to "Quicken" my Wraiths. They do get "Fortune" and I fail to "Protect" them.

- my first turn I take the Wraithfighter and unload some Heavy D Scythe action on one of his (right side of table) Stealth Suits. This just melts them and he's shocked how easy that was since I typically struggle very much to get rid of Stealth Suits in cover.

- I had advanced my Banshee packed Wave Serpent up the right side as well hoping it would be harder to see from the Stormsurge angle. I knew I'd take full pot shots from the Riptide, but I was prepared to ride it out. I had Vextored engines on and since I had advanced, I would be -1 to hit.

- So I end with barely getting first blood as well. My Vibro's popped some inconsequential shots off on the Stormsurge (just bad rolling on my part.) My Shadow Weaver throws 2D6 shots at Drones hoping to start weakening them. No luck. The 4+ 5++ is really annoying.

- Finally I jump my Dark Reapers out but I screwed them up... I shot the wrong order of weaponry into the GhostKeel. I probably wouldn't have killed it but by doing my shots backwards, it allowed him to shield off the first piddly wounds on the Ghostkeel. I 'Fire and Fade' the Dark Reapers back behind a wall.

- Mid game things get better for the Tau since I can't hide everything:

This is just before I roasted his Stealth Team. You can see I tried to get up as close to that mid building as I could.

- The Tau continue to shoot the crud out of me. He doesn't like the Wraithfighter and I proceed to put an additional -1 to hit on it in his turn 2. (I'm sure the flyers would have been gone but he wasn't sure what they really were capable of so he ignored them T1.) With Lightning Reflexes on, he's struggling to hit a bit more, but I still take 6 wounds.

- The CHE takes a few wounds as well, and the Riptide unloads it's entire payload into the Wave Serpent, perhaps only scoring about 4 wounds total. The Vibro's take some more wounds. I"m playing them properly now so they are on the ground, and it makes a difference.

- I've broken through the wall in my turn (bottom of 2). I also drop in the 20 man Guardian Blob in the ruins, just off the screen shot to the left.

- My psychic phase was abysmal last turn so I use "Focus" on my Spiritseer to help out the Warlock who's using Conclave +1 to cast Strat. So now with a +3 to cast I finally get off Protect on the Wraithblades. Then I put Fortune on the CHE as I think the Wraithfighter is toast.

- While it lives, my Wraithfighter ends up roasting another difficult to hit Stealth suit. My Reapers hop out, and shot at the Ghost Keel yet again, and fail to kill it. I get lazy and want to save the CP and don't jump them back into the building. That was a mistake I'd pay for as the Ghostkeel would wipe out the Reapers next turn.

- The CHE plunks a few wounds off of the Stormsurge, so do the Vibro's. But it's still just over half wounds.

- Here my turn gets a little stupid.... after the Guardians come in I shoot a LOT, and I mean a LOT of shots at the drones to prepare for assault. I cannot kill them. The 4++/5+++ is just too much.

- I do have my Wraithguard assault the Kroot, which are wiped out.

The Tau Retaliate:

- Sure enough the Tau are sick of my Reapers and annihilate them. Tau certainly don't like what the Wraithfighter has done so they destroy both Flyers. Now I know he wants and needs to get rid of the Wraiths, but I put Lightning Reflexes on them. He kills quite a few this turn, leaving me with 3 Wraith models with the firepower he has left Basically ignoring the Banshee Serpent, and the Guardians.

- The Vibro cannons lose one of their number, and my second squad of Rangers are dead.

Eldar make a desperate move:

- My Army is very shot up. I've protected the Wraiths well enough, but for shooting I'm really, really depleted now. I've realized how futile most of my shooting is. It just doesn't have a lot of volume, or quality behind it.

- My Pshychic phase is used to keep the last of the Wraiths alive. And here's where my shooting at drone reaches an all time frustration level:

- I know I need to get rid of the drones, but I plan for this massive assault by getting the Banshees out of the Serpent. I know I've lost this game unless I somehow get a LOT of his stuff into assault. Plus he's been using Shadow Sun to reroll tremendous shots from the Riptide and something else to reroll all to wound rolls.

- So back to the drones.... We count over 60 shots I took to kill 7 of the 8 shield drones. No joke. Thats all the Guardian blob, and 2 Shuriken Cannons, all the Farseer/Warlock/Autarch/Spirit Seer shots, and anything I had that could see in line of sight, including everything on the Wave Serpent. It literally takes the 7 pistol shots of the Banshees to try to kill the last drone. I think we counted 80 shots. Because in pure desperation I took about 10 shots from the Night Spinner AND STILL COULDN'T KILL THE LAST DRONE!. Insane.

- Here's the moment I gambled for.

- I take the Banshees and roll 2D6 charge. I declare everything within 15" since I can't be overwatched. I roll up a 13 for the charge! I carefully space out hitting about 5 of his units.

- The Banshees kill the Drone, I do nothing to the Stormsurge with his 3++ invuln, but I kill his warlord and a Crisis Suit.

- This gets me Slay the Warlord and enough points in the close combat to go up by 3 points breaking our tied score.

End game:

- The Riptide can still hop 12" over me, and the Stormsurge is on a wound or 2, so they shoot everything at the last 3 Wraiths, but I finally have a bit of luck go my way and I keep them alive. He scores zero Objectives.

- I throw the last Vibro's at the Stormsurge but fail to kill it. The last wounds are chipped off the Ghostkeel by my Night Spinner. A second Crisis Suit is down and I've moved the Banshees across his back line, advancing, assaaulting to hit the rest of his army.... He is forced to concede. Eldar victory.

Post Game:

- This was my first game in a long time without a Wraithknight. The list has evolved a lot from: Multi Wraiths and Wraithlords and a Wraithknight down to a single Wraith squad. Sad but probably more effective.

- Friends thought I was crazy adding in Banshee's. I did not know who I would play before the game, however I felt they were cheap enough to tie up anything for a turn perhaps. My problem with foot Wraiths is they're too slow and Quicken is too tough to pass reliably for Warlocks/Spiritseers. My thinking was I can blow up chaff with Guardians, move forward with Wraiths, start the assault chain with the Banshees.

- My opponent was caught off guard by some units. I don't like to play "Gotch ya Warhammer" so I tried to explain what units were capable of but it's a lot to absorb.

- The Wave Sperpent is my "anti meta" unit of the week. People don't play hard hitting, high damage weapons as much as they used to. I found the Tau player hated shooting his super high volume shots with 2D weapons into my Serpent. I wish I could take more really, and I see why so many lists have 3.

- The Flyers. I just don't know. 400 points, and the CHE feels very costly to me. I know some much better Eldar players than me still swear by it, but at the very least I would say don't use the Brightlances. At 36" you have to get too close anyway, just save some points to negate the point hike. I think it wasn't necessary to increase them since IH own the skies right now and really the Craftworlds abilities help out cheaper units hitting more often with crappier ballistic skill.

- The Wraithblades were good. Very powerful for one turn of combat, but what a pile of crud they had to march through. HQ's hold it all together with snot and toothpicks while you just cross your fingers and hope it all holds together long enough. This reminds me VERY much of playing my Black Legion Possessed squad. A very similar concept, and played very similarly.

- Vibro's continue to be 'good' for the points.

- Craftworld ability change: Without many Wraith units I swapped my secondary of Wrath of the Dead foe Masterful Shots (remove cover) which gave the lethargic Shurken shots a very slight up trend in ability in this game.

I continue to struggle with making a list I like. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that this is just an army that performs decently across (most) units. You rarely get the chance at a 'massive' win, but if played correctly it can beat a lot of opponent types. However with a lower model count, and such specialization there is extremely little room for error.

Wraithlords are 'good', but so are the CHE. Indirect is nice, but my last game had 2 Night Spinners which feel far better. The Wraithknight was supposed to be a painted centerpiece for army with Flyers and other Wraith units. There seems to be little point to this. The footprint gets too small.

I haven't used some units, or have very little experience with them. Reapers (an okay unit but fragile and require CP support/psychic support/babysitting). I could probably replace Wraithblades with some Shinning Spears if I wanted to be better in that area. But I've already sacked the Dscythe and Dcannon Wraiths.

So I'm still a little all over the place on the army. I've almost finished painting the CHE, and some HQ's. The Wraithknight continues to lay half assembled at my desk. We'll see.

Anyway another win somehow, but again by the slimmest of margins and the most unlikely of heroes... Banshees! Are they worth keeping? Or did I just get lucky?

[The Yncarne]

Great read. I’m guessing your opponent was using the focused fire stratagem for the wound rerolls. Also looks like your opponent wanted to try something different with the point drops.

 

Haven’t played with the new banshees, but my experience with them last summer is it’s a bully unit that won’t do much more than tie models up for a turn. They more or less let you get to where you need to go with the rest of the army, but only for a turn, maybe two.

 

It also sounds like you got the Eldar bite. The whole codex is full of units that are very specialized for certain scenarios which can make it difficult to decide what’s best for a TAC game.

 

As long as you keep painting, playing, and having fun, feel free to drop any preconceived notions of Eldar armies.

[sultansean]

I hate playing Tau and I hate shield drones sooo MUCH! It makes no sense to me that saviour protocols work in close combat. 

 

Anyways, nice game! Good use of the Banshees which are obviously a particularly great unit against Tau. They do require a wave serpent which means you now have 250ish points dedicated to a unit which is going to stop overwatch but probably not kill anything. I have not run them post psychic awakening /CA, but I'm looking at them as a cheap tie up unit.

 

The "Seer Council" stratagem according to Mr. Sean Nayden in a tournament stream game I watched can be used at any time in the psychic phase. So this could be after you roll and just miss the power by 1, use the stratagem and cast it, or after your opponent denies it exactly, use the power and still cast it. It's not intuitive but according to the wording, it does not have to be used before you cast the power, just at any time in the psychic phase. Elder trickery.... 

    

[Karhedron]

Nice battle report and very interesting to see how your list is evolving. You are right about Wave Serpents being good and also that Wraithblades hit hard but have to walk through Heck to deliver.

 

Aircraft work best in an Alaitoc army where you stack cumulative negative modifiers. This means you need to either run an Alaitoc detachment or go with 3 aircraft in order to run an Alaitoc airforce detachment.

 

If spamming aircraft is not your thing, I suggest replacing them with a couple of Wave Serpents and splitting the Wraithblades into 2 5-man units that can then mount up. This kills 2 birds with one stone. While it makes your buff powers a little less efficient, it makes the Wraithblades far more likely to reach combat.

 

Banshees are not a great unit overall IMHO since they do not hit hard enough but they are a real hard-counter to the devastating Tau overwatch so I am glad they worked out for you.

 

Just my idle thoughts on the subject.

[Prot]

I hate playing Tau and I hate shield drones sooo MUCH! It makes no sense to me that saviour protocols work in close combat. 

 

Anyways, nice game! Good use of the Banshees which are obviously a particularly great unit against Tau. They do require a wave serpent which means you now have 250ish points dedicated to a unit which is going to stop overwatch but probably not kill anything. I have not run them post psychic awakening /CA, but I'm looking at them as a cheap tie up unit.

 

The "Seer Council" stratagem according to Mr. Sean Nayden in a tournament stream game I watched can be used at any time in the psychic phase. So this could be after you roll and just miss the power by 1, use the stratagem and cast it, or after your opponent denies it exactly, use the power and still cast it. It's not intuitive but according to the wording, it does not have to be used before you cast the power, just at any time in the psychic phase. Elder trickery.... 

 

    

 

That's good to know about the Seer Council. I actually had no idea.

 

BTW: that's a good analysis of the 'cost' of preventing overwatch. But it was a layered approach I wanted to try since just flat out running across the board and assaulting was just really clunky and not working.

 

I do really miss some of the shooty Wrath units. I really believe the DScythes aren't horrible. In todays' day of great invluns and damage reduction, I find a ton of high strength, low damage attacks gets good results. (Better than say shooting 2 las cannons).

 

But the list gets physically too small so I've been using the one bigger Axe Squad on foot.... the problem being it requires a lot of maneuvering and luck. 

 

Nice battle report and very interesting to see how your list is evolving. You are right about Wave Serpents being good and also that Wraithblades hit hard but have to walk through Heck to deliver.

 

Aircraft work best in an Alaitoc army where you stack cumulative negative modifiers. This means you need to either run an Alaitoc detachment or go with 3 aircraft in order to run an Alaitoc airforce detachment.

 

If spamming aircraft is not your thing, I suggest replacing them with a couple of Wave Serpents and splitting the Wraithblades into 2 5-man units that can then mount up. This kills 2 birds with one stone. While it makes your buff powers a little less efficient, it makes the Wraithblades far more likely to reach combat.

 

Banshees are not a great unit overall IMHO since they do not hit hard enough but they are a real hard-counter to the devastating Tau overwatch so I am glad they worked out for you.

 

Just my idle thoughts on the subject.

 

Thanks.  I went through my old Eldar pics and I saw all my old Alaitoc and Ulthwé... wow that's some old stuff, and the funny thing is most of those models are still in circulation!

 

The comment about the Wraiths is true, and the Banshees. I've played a few games with a smaller squad in a Serpent, and a bigger squad on foot. I think what you suggest is probably my next attempt. Two 5 man squads in 2 serpents and the Banshees unfortunately are gone.

 

I don't have a problem with 'spamming' flyers. I love the models and I'm one model short of a flyer wing. I just really don't think the mileage is there any more and Flyers are in tough against a lot of armies now (handfuls of Iron Hands have sprouted everywhere here.)

 

I agree that killing two birds with one stone as you say will be in the next list.

 

 

Just some random thoughts:

 

- I think I have the HQ's figured out for this style of list.

 

- It's still very hard to play and I don't think it will ever be a 'great' army. Last night I pulled out my Flawless Host CSM and Chaos Knights and it's just a whole different level. My opponent thought my Eldar wasn't anywhere near my CSM in competitive terms which was disappointing but I have to agree.

 

- I miss the Wraithknight. It's funny though in many armies if I lose a single Knight, it doesn't bug me (AdMech/Chaos/etc) but I really feel the loss of this Knight as it seems to anchor the army. 

 

- That said I'm putting him back in the list for my next game. I'll be far more aggressive with this list.

 

Thanks for reading the Batrep! I appreciate the comments too.

[Dread]

Man I wish I had some input for you. I got the sisters bug real bad right now. But I can hit on a few things.

 

I've learned that flyer spam is great against a bunch of armies and I now use it guiltlessly. Especially when you discover what the opponents have up their sleeve.

 

3 or more fire prisms, just as guiltless. Using the strat combos and farseer powers to get rid of annoying units so my other units can preform, good stuff.

 

Try to set up lots of debris fields in pregame. Then you can advance wraith units with cover help. If your opponent complains don't play them because they just want to sit back and shoot, no tactics there.

 

Thanks for the bat rep. It has helped enlighten some of us.

 

Do you have the rules for build your own craftworld? If not I think you might find them helpful. I have, in theory anyway.

[Prot]

Man I wish I had some input for you. I got the sisters bug real bad right now. But I can hit on a few things.

 

I've learned that flyer spam is great against a bunch of armies and I now use it guiltlessly. Especially when you discover what the opponents have up their sleeve.

 

3 or more fire prisms, just as guiltless. Using the strat combos and farseer powers to get rid of annoying units so my other units can preform, good stuff.

 

Try to set up lots of debris fields in pregame. Then you can advance wraith units with cover help. If your opponent complains don't play them because they just want to sit back and shoot, no tactics there.

 

Thanks for the bat rep. It has helped enlighten some of us.

 

Do you have the rules for build your own craftworld? If not I think you might find them helpful. I have, in theory anyway.

thank you for the insight. Yes I’m using my own craftworld.  As if this post I’ve changed from using 3-5 Wraith units so my Craftworld has changed as well. As of now it’s Expert Crafters and Masterful shots. 

 

about the flyers... I admit I don’t get it. I love my Wraith Fighter, but it usually gets mediocre results. I loved painting my new CHE but it has not done a heck of a lot for me. I’ve contemplated getting another flyer for the extra CP but I hesitate because since the CA cost hike, I’m really not sure it’s worth it. The flyers are sincerely a unit I’m not comprehending as competitive. I must be doing something seriously wrong. 

 

it has crossed my mind that GW is making point adjustments based on ITC as flyers are much more potent in ITC. I’m not sure though. I admit I don’t get it. with the flyers I actually believe anyone is better off with a Wraithlord with dual missiles. You get T8 and the ability to hide with some CC punch to boot. Anyway I’m confused about what I’m not getting about the flyers.  They’ve consistently been my lowest performer. 

 

3 Prisms is tempting, so is dual Night Spinners which seem considerably better than 1. 

 

At this point the army makes me feel somewhat incompetent. I have the worst record with my Eldar over all my other armies   I used to chalk it up to inexperience as I play in a competitive meta and really understand my other armies. 

 

when I look at what’s working in extremely competitive environments I see old Ynnari lists that are illegal now and more recently I see gargantuan Warlick Conclave lists which isn’t something I’m personally interested in.  

[Dread]

On the night spinners, if you target a unit you can't see they get a cover save unless something says otherwise. The Marines I was using them against were getting 2+ saves against them.

[Dosjetka]

On the night spinners, if you target a unit you can't see they get a cover save unless something says otherwise. The Marines I was using them against were getting 2+ saves against them.

Curious to know where you get this from as it's not something I've encountered before. Is it in a FAQ/Errata somewhere?

[Prot]

 

On the night spinners, if you target a unit you can't see they get a cover save unless something says otherwise. The Marines I was using them against were getting 2+ saves against them.

 

Curious to know where you get this from as it's not something I've encountered before. Is it in a FAQ/Errata somewhere?

Plus as has been mentioned I’ve used Masterful shots as one of my traits this game.

[Dread]

Using masterful is great. It's in the actual rules somewhere in the cover save section I believe. I need to reread it myself. I may have been bambozzled.

 

On another note. How many wraithlords have you ran in your list at a time?

Edited January 14, 2020 by Dread

[Slasher956]

Using masterful is great. It's in the actual rules somewhere in the cover save section I believe. I need to reread it myself. I may have been bambozzled.

 

On another note. How many wraithlords have you ran in your list at a time?

 

you've been bambozzled....

 

pg 181 cover call out box:

 

 

If a unit is entirely on or within any terrain feature, add 1 to its models’ saving throws against shooting attacks to represent the cover received from the terrain

 

nothing about LoS... purely are you on /within terrain

[Prot]

 

On another note. How many wraithlords have you ran in your list at a time?

 

I've gone up to 2, sometimes 1, but right now none.

 

DE drowned them in poison one game so that was just a bit of a wake up call, and there are DW detachments around here so that would even be worse. Plus you can only buff so many units with a FnP or Protect in anticipation of poison wounds coming in.

 

The other thing is they are decent in CC, but I think the shooty variant is better. You can protect them (longer) against poison match ups, but they can be overwhelmed in CC. So if you keep them back someone can't throw junk at them, they'll have to push hard enough to do damage.

[Aothaine]

Hey Prot. Have you thought of trying to run more big units to saturate the field? Mabye an Avatar of Khaine?

[Prot]

I know you like the Avatar, but I have trouble seeing him in the type of lists I’m using.

 

I have too many high cost units imo. My playstyle always seems to gravitate towards elite over spam. But I think I’ve overdone it a bit.

 

Ironically I heard Colin Sherman, a high ranked Eldar ITC player, claim he thought if Marines weren’t so Ofer the top right now, Eldar would be top ranked. I did watch his amazing charity event... specifically his game vs Nick Nanavati’s Iron Hands. Colin lost and to be honest I never saw a moment where I felt the outcome would change.

 

I guess I’m using all the wrong units. I mean even the planes, I don’t get it. Lootas, Dark Eldar , Tau ... all seem to have no issue deleting them. We know marines delete them. I feel like there’s some big fat secret I am completely oblivious to with this army. Lol

 

I look at my own lists and what I’ve painted and I guess I have just too much ‘fun’ in the list. I’ve rotated through Wraithknight, Wraithlords, 1, 2, and 3 Wraith unit lists.

 

What seems to work is Reapers ( I bought 5 I just feel like I painted these models 10 years ago.. probably because I did!)

The HQs are all good, but I refuse to play the massive conclave list.

Night spinners in some matchups feel mandatory. I think you need 2 though.

Vibros are fun, decent. Not crazy good, but realistically with how expensive and lacklustre my lists are, I should be using 6 probably.

Fire Prisms are very popular. A guy at my local GW loves them. I just can’t get into them though.

 

What has surprised me:

10 man axe wraiths on foot. One squad that can soak all the buffs up and prey to the dice gods. But when you do this, I think the rest of your list suffers, especially elite units.

Wave serpents. Man people hate shooting at these. I’m sure 5heres some merit in using them in my lists. Aside from banshees! I just haven’t figured out what.

Flyers. Again, love the models but I don’t get it. T6 and -1 to hit vs More Dakka or reroll ‘all’ auras just devour these. ( actually I watched Colin’s get chewed up by Nanivati and I think Colin was surprised)

 

Don’t know yet;

Shinning Spears. Expensive ( hence they aren’t in my list) but the vet seen them work especially with the new 2 up invuln on the Exarch. )

Ynnari. I don’t know how to incorporate them but I’d love to have a reason to paint Yvraine, and / or Yncarne.

 

I have a game scheduled this week. Looking like it -might- be vs the new Blood Angels trickery... you know tha5 list with 20 first turn assaulting jet pack infantry and smash caps. ( plus a Leviathan). I don’t give myself much of a chance. Lol

[Karhedron]

Ynnari. I don’t know how to incorporate them but I’d love to have a reason to paint Yvraine, and / or Yncarne.

One fun idea I have heard is an Ynnari Spearhead detachment with the Yncarne and 3 Wraithlords. Give the Yncarne Word of the Pheonix and Shield of Ynnead. Give the Wraithlords Glaives and 2 Shuricannons so they can Advance and still shoot.

The whole lot can move an average of 11.5" towards the enemy. The Wraithlords screen the Yncarne from enemy fire and gain a 6+++ in return. The Yncarne can cast Shield to give all 3 Wraithlords a 5++ and if they take any damage they can be healed using WOTP.

Variations include adding a Wraithseer with The Lost Shroud for even more tankiness and an extra psychic power.

The Yncarne is a wonderful model. I converted mine slightly by removing the silly horns and painting it up in Wraithbone colours instead (well, it is the God of the Dead ).

[Karhedron]

I have a game scheduled this week. Looking like it -might- be vs the new Blood Angels trickery... you know tha5 list with 20 first turn assaulting jet pack infantry and smash caps. ( plus a Leviathan). I don’t give myself much of a chance. Lol

My other army is Blood Angels so I feel your pain.

 

MSU and screening is going to be vital. Blood Angels can hit hard enough to tear almost any target apart so try to deny them high value targets. Wave Serpents will soak fire from Leviathans wonderfully assuming he has gone for dual Stormcannons. If he has gone for Grav flux bombards then play more carefully and try to out-range it. Shooty Leviathans don't like melee so try tying it up with something expendable.

 

Against his Jump units, keep a Farseer near a big unit of Reapers and play Forewarned if he tries to jump in from Reserves or use Upon Wings of Fire. Captain Smash is scary but try to deny him valuable targets and just shoot him to pieces with small arms fire once he gets close. Ulimately he is only 5 T4 wounds behind a 3++ save. A few squads with shuricats will eat him for breakfast.

[Prot]

Thanks for the Yncarne idea. That truly sounds cool and like a real excuse to paint one. He/She looks great. I love the transition you did on the flames and the subtle conversion work. Looks great.

 

I'd love to try that out. Wraithseer too.

 

 

 

I have a game scheduled this week. Looking like it -might- be vs the new Blood Angels trickery... you know tha5 list with 20 first turn assaulting jet pack infantry and smash caps. ( plus a Leviathan). I don’t give myself much of a chance. Lol

My other army is Blood Angels so I feel your pain.

MSU and screening is going to be vital. Blood Angels can hit hard enough to tear almost any target apart so try to deny them high value targets. Wave Serpents will soak fire from Leviathans wonderfully assuming he has gone for dual Stormcannons. If he has gone for Grav flux bombards then play more carefully and try to out-range it. Shooty Leviathans don't like melee so try tying it up with something expendable.

Against his Jump units, keep a Farseer near a big unit of Reapers and play Forewarned if he tries to jump in from Reserves or use Upon Wings of Fire. Captain Smash is scary but try to deny him valuable targets and just shoot him to pieces with small arms fire once he gets close. Ulimately he is only 5 T4 wounds behind a 3++ save. A few squads with shuricats will eat him for breakfast.

 

 

I'm thinking I may pull out my Chaos Black Legion or something. I just watched a game (I've witnessed several in one of my groups).

 

The Blood Angels I'm seeing are coming in so fast and hard, and with Baal's +1 to charge, and re rolls it's really a gong show by turn 2. My eldar probably can't deal with that. I doubt my CSM can either but they seem a little better at CC at least. It probably won't make a difference to be fair. lol

 

 

+Edit+ I took my Reapers out and put the Wraithlord back in. He was a good unit for Forewarning with dual Scats, and Suncannon, but he would probably get destroyed by the golden dudes. Maybe I should just go back to taking him out of the list. I was using dual Wraith units in Serpents. The Serpents are really survivable, but yes, he uses the dual Storm cannon (?) Leviathan.

 

Honestly I've never used a Leviathan... I know it's darn good or everyone wouldn't use it. I just never went the Forgeworld route with my Chaos.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Prot

[Karhedron]

Honestly I've never used a Leviathan... I know it's darn good or everyone wouldn't use it. I just never went the Forgeworld route with my Chaos.

I know what you mean. My son is building one now for his Dark Angels (it is going to be quite scary with the new stuff they are getting in PA4) but I have never got any FW stuff myself. My gaming club still has a hangover from 6th edition where FW was flat-out better than most codex stuff and it acquired its "pay-to-play" reputation. Most FW stuff is well balanced these days, possibly even a little under-powered in many cases but old opinions die hard. The Leviathan is good but not brokenly so. It's main value is that it gives Marines something that can take high ROF mid-S mid-AP weaponry. It doesn't really bring more than a pair of Knight Armigers but it does allow you to avoid soup.

[Karhedron]

I'd love to try that out. Wraithseer too.

Wraithseers are actually the hidden gems of the Ynnari list. You can actually run 2 + Yncarne for a Supreme Command detachment if you want (add optional Elite if you think of anything fluffy).

 

Give one the Lost Shroud relic for half damage and a 5+++. Make the other your Warlord and give it the Lord of Rebirth trait for another 5+++ and regenerating a wound at the start of every turn (add Mirrorgaze relic to give this guy an additional -1 to hit when targeted if you wish).

Edited January 20, 2020 by Karhedron

[Prot]

 That does sound fun. Right now with PA4 I’ve gone back to my Thousand Sons but that’s something I will try.