30k Hobby Chat

[WrathOfTheLion]

I didn't manage to prime anything for HH today... too humid in South Carolina.

 

It does seem like they are all going through the main GW paint team now. But I thought they could at least have done a heresy burgundy.

 

At the very least, it wasn't Blood Angels bright like they did for the Calth models. While I like the BA red, it's not Word Bearers...

[The Scorpion]

The word bearers were always in a weird spot.

 

Dark brethern was always kind of redundant because both special characters granted daemon allies. Their special units were historically a bit meh outside of GV, but daemons were soul-crushingly broken and could inflate the size of your army infinitely with summoning.

 

Ironically, they got a lot stronger when malevolence dropped. Ashen circle are pretty incredible with their new points, dark brethern has a focus in hard-countering daemons and thousand sons, as does the possessed dread.

 

They still need an update visavis the characters unlocking daemon allies, but they're not as directionless as they used to be.

I can agree with your initial statement, but how does the release of malevolence makes them stronger?

 

If demons are "Agents of the Warmaster", then they are sworn brothers with all traitors. Which means the WB gimmick is no longer a gimmick at all.

 

Their special characters and RoW are paying extra points and restrictions for something that everybody can already do just by being part of the traitor faction.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

The word bearers were always in a weird spot.

 

Dark brethern was always kind of redundant because both special characters granted daemon allies. Their special units were historically a bit meh outside of GV, but daemons were soul-crushingly broken and could inflate the size of your army infinitely with summoning.

 

Ironically, they got a lot stronger when malevolence dropped. Ashen circle are pretty incredible with their new points, dark brethern has a focus in hard-countering daemons and thousand sons, as does the possessed dread.

 

They still need an update visavis the characters unlocking daemon allies, but they're not as directionless as they used to be.

I can agree with your initial statement, but how does the release of malevolence makes them stronger?

 

If demons are "Agents of the Warmaster", then they are sworn brothers with all traitors. Which means the WB gimmick is no longer a gimmick at all.

 

Their special characters and RoW are paying extra points and restrictions for something that everybody can already do just by being part of the traitor faction.

I mentioned why in the post you quoted, but I'll go into more detail.

 

While the latest FAQ may not have came out with malevolence, they were like a month apart so I count them together. Ashen circle went down 20% for a full unit, are able to be joined by certain characters now, get +1 to sweep and got ap 3 on their weapons. Its insane; 220 for 10 AS, where their power weapons and hand flamers basically cost 200 of those points. They're very very points efficient and are one of the best infantry killing squads. Zardu making them troops and giving them access to dark chanelling is great too, and there's a technical argument to be made about whether they still score after being turned into daemons.

 

On to malevolence itself.

 

The first is pretty simple. Because daemons don't require prerequisites, you don't have to invest in the already overpriced erebus or kor phaeron; you're granted more flexibility in list building and can make more point efficient choices.

 

Daemons being their own faction and being ally-able with every traitor also gives a clear purpose to both the Mhara gal and the dark brethern rite of war, since daemons will now be all over the place. It also increases the value of tainted weapons, as daemons rely on large wound pools to sustain them instead of armour.

 

Let's start with the rite. Dark Brethern was dead on arrival. ICs getting preferred enemy was fine, but Daemon Allies didn't need a rite, signs and portents was risky and psykers were almost never used. Add the restrictions of yet another HQ and 1 heavy support slot and you come to realize the benefits of three units getting preferred enemy is not worth the drawbacks. Now malevolence introduced 2 new psyker consuls, of which the primus nullificator is hilariously broken, increasing the saturation of psykers, but it also of course has daemons. Not only do daemons have the potential for a high amount of psykers, every failed leadership test causes them to roll on their perils chart resulting in d3 wounds that go through saves most of the time. Daemons strength is their high toughness, multiwound units; popping d3 brutes, shrikes, beasts or cav from morale is huge.

 

The mhara gal likewise was kind of bad on release; the only army that used daemons and psykers was...the word bearers, so its aura of wounding was a strict hindrance. But with daemons around the aura gets far more value, as does its ghost razor rule and especially howling death. Kill one model with it and they're losing another 2 on average in a dark brethern list.

 

So in summation, yes most of the word bearers special characters lost some of their value. In return, they don't have to be taken to use daemon allies, their rite of war and tainted dreadnought have an actual function, and ashen circle became an amazing unit.

[Aztek]

https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s640x640/118482014_170775097843923_3681108880500910805_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=-CUBI7YqnMQAX8XvJ4z&oh=322b2868809c82a75a9f7e69cb95c98e&oe=5F6E5A89&ig_cache_key=MjM4Mjg2NTY2NDcyODQxOTI1Nw%3D%3D.2

 

A comission piece of my Night Lord Siegebreaker I posted on the last page! I'm in love with it. He shall crush the enemies of the 8th beneath his S10 hammer(Mournival Event character)

[Indefragable]

Finished my 15x Dawnbringer conversions, so now I have 20x total. Now to prime and paint....

[The Scorpion]

 

 

The word bearers were always in a weird spot.

 

Dark brethern was always kind of redundant because both special characters granted daemon allies. Their special units were historically a bit meh outside of GV, but daemons were soul-crushingly broken and could inflate the size of your army infinitely with summoning.

 

Ironically, they got a lot stronger when malevolence dropped. Ashen circle are pretty incredible with their new points, dark brethern has a focus in hard-countering daemons and thousand sons, as does the possessed dread.

 

They still need an update visavis the characters unlocking daemon allies, but they're not as directionless as they used to be.

I can agree with your initial statement, but how does the release of malevolence makes them stronger?

 

If demons are "Agents of the Warmaster", then they are sworn brothers with all traitors. Which means the WB gimmick is no longer a gimmick at all.

 

Their special characters and RoW are paying extra points and restrictions for something that everybody can already do just by being part of the traitor faction.

I mentioned why in the post you quoted, but I'll go into more detail.

 

While the latest FAQ may not have came out with malevolence, they were like a month apart so I count them together. Ashen circle went down 20% for a full unit, are able to be joined by certain characters now, get +1 to sweep and got ap 3 on their weapons. Its insane; 220 for 10 AS, where their power weapons and hand flamers basically cost 200 of those points. They're very very points efficient and are one of the best infantry killing squads. Zardu making them troops and giving them access to dark chanelling is great too, and there's a technical argument to be made about whether they still score after being turned into daemons.

 

On to malevolence itself.

 

The first is pretty simple. Because daemons don't require prerequisites, you don't have to invest in the already overpriced erebus or kor phaeron; you're granted more flexibility in list building and can make more point efficient choices.

 

Daemons being their own faction and being ally-able with every traitor also gives a clear purpose to both the Mhara gal and the dark brethern rite of war, since daemons will now be all over the place. It also increases the value of tainted weapons, as daemons rely on large wound pools to sustain them instead of armour.

 

Let's start with the rite. Dark Brethern was dead on arrival. ICs getting preferred enemy was fine, but Daemon Allies didn't need a rite, signs and portents was risky and psykers were almost never used. Add the restrictions of yet another HQ and 1 heavy support slot and you come to realize the benefits of three units getting preferred enemy is not worth the drawbacks. Now malevolence introduced 2 new psyker consuls, of which the primus nullificator is hilariously broken, increasing the saturation of psykers, but it also of course has daemons. Not only do daemons have the potential for a high amount of psykers, every failed leadership test causes them to roll on their perils chart resulting in d3 wounds that go through saves most of the time. Daemons strength is their high toughness, multiwound units; popping d3 brutes, shrikes, beasts or cav from morale is huge.

 

The mhara gal likewise was kind of bad on release; the only army that used daemons and psykers was...the word bearers, so its aura of wounding was a strict hindrance. But with daemons around the aura gets far more value, as does its ghost razor rule and especially howling death. Kill one model with it and they're losing another 2 on average in a dark brethern list.

 

So in summation, yes most of the word bearers special characters lost some of their value. In return, they don't have to be taken to use daemon allies, their rite of war and tainted dreadnought have an actual function, and ashen circle became an amazing unit.

 

 

The Ashen Circle buff was welcome. But I still don't think malevolence made Psykers and Demons popular enough to make a difference.

 

I'm bummed that any potential buff the Word Bearers may have gotten, is due to them losing their flavour. Dark Bretheren dead on arrival? Perhaps, but back then it was unique... strange even, just like the legion itslef. Now? It's just redundant. The XVIIIth has become an army with a single RoW for all intents and purposes.

 

I'd rather have a single useless unit, than a useless RoW and 3 special characters carrying dead rules with them.

[SkimaskMohawk]

You can argue about how popular daemons and psykers are, but the simple fact is that dark brethern had no purpose before because you just took a special character. Now it has a purpose, however niche it might be. Thats the opposite of redundant.

 

If you're dissapointed that some characters lost some thematic identity that's fair. But the legion got objectively better.

[Indefragable]

Need to finish assembling my Javelin speeder (don’t know if I got a bad unit or if it’s that crappy of a sculpt, but it’s been a pain to get together)...

 

...and finish my Deathstorm Drop Pod conversion (using the missile launchers from the standard pod kit...I’d ideally have two wracks, 10 total, but I can’t find any more on bits sites or eBay so I’ll have to make due with 5 total)....

 

...and I’m through my backlog of assembling. Holy cow.

 

Now just to finish painting it all...

[Marshal Vespasian]

I got a game scheduled next tuesday and a campaign day on september 5th propably.

So lots of gaming next week.

Also hope to finish my terminator praetor and primus medicae.

 

Next up will be 15 phalanx warders. I think I'll do their shields in white marble and then try a black marble effect on the fists on the shields. I'll build 5 guys with axes and the sgt with a fist. Additionally: 3 plasma guns.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Marshal Vespasian

[Lovecraft0110]

I got a game scheduled next tuesday and a campaign day on september 5th propably.

So lots of gaming next week.

Also hope to finish my terminator praetor and primus medicae.

 

Next up will be 15 phalanx warders. I think I'll do their shields in white marble and then try a black marble effect on the fists on the shields. I'll build 5 guys with axes and the sgt with a fist. Additionally: 3 plasma guns.

 

Oh, man, I'm really envious! 

[The Scorpion]

You can argue about how popular daemons and psykers are, but the simple fact is that dark brethern had no purpose before because you just took a special character. Now it has a purpose, however niche it might be. Thats the opposite of redundant.

 

If you're dissapointed that some characters lost some thematic identity that's fair. But the legion got objectively better.

Which purpose? Triple HQ tax? Single HS slot? It has become more pointless now than ever before.

 

Preferred ennemy is not a great bonus when the mandatory Diabolist and the Chaplain already come with rerolls, and are suited to melee.

 

Make no mistake: The Dark Bretheren bonus was the Demons, not the perils, not the PE. An indirect hail mary buff that may only come trough a potential change in the meta does not change the fact that FW has written contradictory rules, and contradictory statements. (such as ruinstorm Samus 'not replacing the old profile', but Ruinstorm rules rendering said old profile obsolete per actual RAW).

Edited August 27, 2020 by The Scorpion

[SkimaskMohawk]

I understand the old advantage to dark brethern was daemon allies. But because special characters did that for you with no additional drawbacks, it essentially had no purpose. You just didn't take it. I've said this a few times now.

 

But now there's a reason to take it because of daemons taking perils.

 

I don't disagree that it's due to meta shift or that FW rules aren't clear with ruinstorm samus or anything. But that has nothing to do with my statement that dark brethern has a point to being taken.

[Slips]

I think it'd be best if any further WB RoW discussion be moved to their tactica thread.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Finally got to prime some figures the other day.

Should be good today to lay some basecoats with the airbrush, will be working on a HS squad, a TS squad and some tactical marines to round out most of my infantry for the WB force.

I'll also be trying to finish magnetizing the guns on my DA sabre tanks this evening after work. I have the missiles and top mounted guns done already, so those are almost prepared.

Edited August 27, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

What's a varnish people like to use? Anything that goes through an airbrush?

[Marshal Vespasian]

Ak interactive ultra matte

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

Cheers, Marshall.

Worked some more on the spartan.



Soon, I'll glue the side hull pieces onto the main body... so very soon.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Experimenting with a White Scars scheme. Trying to find the right balance between the off-whites on the blends and between the white, red and metallics has been a lot of fun. Also trying out true metallics on the Dao

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk

[Cadmus Tyro]

What's a varnish people like to use? Anything that goes through an airbrush?

Depends what you want it for, I’ve found airbrush based varnish to be a great finishing product. But it’s not tough enough to stand up to the rigours of oils and enamels.

 

I use Vallejo acrylic rattle can varnish for the pre oil coat.

 

When the models complete I will use different combinations of Mig lucky varnish to achieve the final effect.

 

Good luck!

 

Cadmus

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

A word of critique, if I may? Edge highlighting and doing realistic chipping like that don't really go well hand-in-hand. You're essentially doing contrasting styles, which don't feed and build each other up. I'd use the chipping as a replacement edgehighlight, maybe use graphite pencil to get that metallic edge to it. 

I do have to ask; what color is the laminar-like belt? That's a really nice brassy color. Your blended reds are also really nice!

[SkimaskMohawk]

A word of critique, if I may? Edge highlighting and doing realistic chipping like that don't really go well hand-in-hand. You're essentially doing contrasting styles, which don't feed and build each other up. I'd use the chipping as a replacement edgehighlight, maybe use graphite pencil to get that metallic edge to it.

 

I do have to ask; what color is the laminar-like belt? That's a really nice brassy color. Your blended reds are also really nice!

No worries! This is the second scar model I did, the first being a real fast white with chipping and enamel weathering and then I started adding highlights. This was a test for a few other concepts which honestly didn't work out that well; I'd a lot of stuff differently with the white armour on a next attempt.

 

The belt and beaten metal areas starts with castellax bronze (love it), brown wash, valdor gold and then mix in mithril/runefang/bright silver to the valdor and highlight again.

[Pacific81]

I have just started work on a unit of these little dudes - heavy support infantry for my Crusade-era World Eaters. 

Will be 20 marines (4 stands in Epic) total with a mix of the missile launchers and the loaders.

Have also run out of Rhinos for the time being unfortunately so these guys are going to get a free upgrade (inc. a Sat Nav and fuel included!) and be driving around in Land Raiders. 

 

[sarabando]

built the next 5 indomni termies for my IF just need 2 more volkites for the squad.

[Dantay VI]

Thought I would try a new recipe for my Wolves as the grey I have been doing is a bit on hte dark side and I wanted to get out of a rut.

 

This is how they usually look

 

 

This is how my first attempts came out

 

 

Aaaarghh baby blue. Not what I was planning on. Hoping a thin glaze of grey and then some oil washes will bring it back within the heresy spectrum...

[WrathOfTheLion]

Got two sabre tanks primed and the black painted for my DA. Testing out some new paints on them, trying out vallejo air metal paints on it. I'm liking them so far. I think I'm going to go for some oil washes on the metals, seen some cool results with that online that I think I want to replicate.