Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 They can still advance, and if you’re outside 12 it’s not like the pistols do much anyway. Plus as they’re canoptek they can get adaptive subroutines to charge after advancing, if you’re so inclined, or need them in combat right that turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5550738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Thokt Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 I just hope Szeras is worth protecting with 2-6 of these guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5550902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarges Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 And here is the big boy: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5550912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) Honestly, this is about what I expected. Still not that impressive. Having said that, I do think this is just an 8th edition update, and he will change again with the new codex. Or at least, that's what I hope. Especially after reading that energy matter manipulation rule. Who writes this stuff? The random upgrades are not that exciting to begin with, but in all likelihood, by the time you destroy an enemy unit(if you do) in the fight phase, you've already upgraded the 2-3 squads of immortals and warriors already. Edited June 30, 2020 by Ahzek451 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5550959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoatibix Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 The white half-face mask with multiple eyes reminds me of the Pariah models. I wonder if that's what he is - a redesigned Pariah. Role changed to be more like the Culuxes Assassins, rather than a blob of dudes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Szeras looks assertively mediocre. It seems like he can't decide exactly what his role is. I'm buying the model but I doubt I'll be fielding him anytime soon. Maybe if you ignore the Augmentation and just have him rush into the enemy's face with as many cryptothralls as you can bring he'd be useful? I don't know, I can't see a use for him something else doesn't do better right now. He can't give an invuln or repair, and he needs to be very close to the enemy, but his buffs only target units that generally don't want to be that close. Maybe if he's hanging out with Reaper Warriors he'll actually have a purpose? I think they should at least let us Augment the same unit twice and just have the new roll replace the old one so you can fish for what you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 I think you either have to go all in on his augmentation or his melee/shooting/psyker debuff aspects. Either he's running around your backline handing out augments to your blobs or he's racing forward with some Skorpeth Destroyers and Thralls to beat face on the frontlines and help Destroyers stand back up. You won't get both. His statline says he's a support unit for close range shooting troops but we don't see that at all in 8th. Maybe his role will make more sense in 9th if our troops are more durable and can stand back up while walking into rapid fire range. I would like it if augmentation units like Bile and Sezeras were just a flat pick D3 units before deployment and roll for their buffs. Not this ongoing in game mechanic which wastes time and isn't reliable or really useful in a game sense. Knowing from the start which unit has +1 St, T, or BS is a lot more useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 He’s definitely a head scratcher. I’m in the “let’s hope this is his 8th ed rules” club, although this is probably it. He gets more attacks then an Overlord. I still see his augment buff as negligible to ignorable. I’d be looking for the +BS. The extra strength is useless and the extra T can have an impact, but I don’t think by much. If he could target units other then the basic troops I think it’d be very useful. I think the Atomic Energy Manipulation ability is laughable. Szeras has to be the one destroying the unit. With no invuln and at T6 with a 3+ armor save, if he’s anywhere near a front line he’s going to get murdered quickly. On top of that he needs to have a warrior unit or immortal unit he hasn’t already buffed within 6” to put the buff on. He really looks to be a slightly buffed version of his current stat line. The model looks amazing, and I’ll definitely pick it up eventually. It’s just a shame that these rules no where near match how he looks. Sarges 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) I'm further inclined to beleive this is just an older 8th edition profile. The new data sheet for the buckets have living metal and reanimation protocols. I wonder if new crons will have both. And szeres is just written with 8th in mind. In addition, I am curious as to why he is painted into the silent kings dynasty and if he will receive that keyword. As he stands, he just doesnt seem to fit anywhere and what he can do is incredibly mediocre. Many are making a good case that fabius does a better job and many already dont feel great about him. Edited June 30, 2020 by Ahzek451 Sarges 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 The recent fluff has him making a deal with the Silent King, hence the Szarekhan Dynasty color scheme. 01RTB01 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathor42 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 The only bad I can see is his weapon range went down but the number of shots increased. Will be funny if it becomes blast in 9th. I'm gonna take him in my novokh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 I think you guys are setting yourself up for disappointment thinking there's an alternate 9th Ed profile. This is it, guys. Maybe a points tweak rolling into 9th but that's it, I feel really confident saying what you see here is what you're gonna get. He isn't going to get a Dynasty so he can remain a character that anyone can take without breaking their faction bonuses. The downside is that he's got meh rules, the upside is that by the rule of cool I'm going to play him regardless. 01RTB01 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrom Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Talking about something else, Has anyone noticed something weird? The CryptoThralls are Canoptek and have reanimation protocols. Being a Canoptek used to be the sign for no reanimation protocols (unless using a stratagem). Do you think there is chance now that all Canopteks will receive the reanimation protocol buff? (just not being able to benefit from cryptek improved RP). That would be huge to have a swarm of scarabs with 5+ RP or with Wraiths Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Thokt Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Now we know why GW didn't want to preview this guy. Like I mentioned before, there have been two veeery contrasting differences between the rules Space Marines have been getting to Necrons. One is on a bike so he gets 6 attacks, other has 7 limbs so he gets 4. One gets upgraded Melta guns that get 24" range, shoot twice and roll two dice for damage AND can choose which value (not highest) just in case the target has Quantum Shielding. The other gets a gun that needs 7" range for rapid fire. Bile gets to choose his augmentation, Szeras doesn't. Alright! Let's look at the datasheet! I mean, the guy is rocking blackstone, that's got to mean something right? Oh.. just perils on any double within 9"... okay. What about that guy on the base getting his head sucked into a vortex, that's got to mean something right? Oh.. He just gets to do his random Augmentation again. Why can he only augment Warriors and Immortals? What makes Lychguard, Flayed Ones, or Praetorians so different? I thought this guy was the master of augmentation? Why doesn't he carry an invun save? When he literally designed his own body, yet most other HQ get as a standard in-built ability. Why does his datasheet tell us he wants to be in combat, when the units his ability targets don't want to? Why is his weapon Assault D3 and not Assault 3? Is that making him too strong for Necrons? Random damage too? Oh very good GW. At least those Meltas get to throw two dice for their D6, but only because they are SPACE MARINES. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 You forgot: "gets to do random augmentation again AFTER destroying an entire unit in combat" ;). Yeah if I recall correctly, GW got blasted a bit with bile's rules, maybe they didn't want to go theiught that again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) Fyi Bile also rolls for augmentation... He gets to add/ minus one for his attendant but still rolls. He also has to have the squad "wholly" within 6" unlike szeras which is simply within. Not huge but a difference... Edited July 1, 2020 by 01RTB01 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Thokt Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Pretty sure Bile isn't 130pts. Going -/+ on the table makes a huge difference, hardly a reason to point out that he still needs to roll. Makes everything else between the previews of each faction fair right? Good logic right there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Pretty sure Bile isn't 130pts. Going -/+ on the table makes a huge difference, hardly a reason to point out that he still needs to roll. Makes everything else between the previews of each faction fair right? Good logic right there. Please calm your tone, that isn't needed. Clearly you're agitated but my point stands. No Bile isn't 130 points - he's something like 95. However, comparison of the two is to an extent futile as they exist in armies that are radically different to each other. They have a rule in common but Bile is frankly, not very good. I've got him as he's thematic but he ain't a world beater. By comparison szeras is imo a Swiss Army knife. The model looks great, rules perhaps not as desired. However, he can do some work in cc, he can shoot a bit and he can buff a bit. He's an enlarged scientist for all intents and purposes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Thokt Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Your point being what? You're coming here with clearly no purpose than to point out trivial details in my post with no inference. Not even close to a Swiss army knife. Szeras is a jack of all trades, master of none. His average damage output in range is 0 to 3. His average damage output in combat with the lance in combat is 2. His average damage output with his legs is 2. Both of his new abilities are close to vain. 16% of someone rolling a perils which needs to be within 9". Another completely random roll to augment a unit within 6" that hasn't already been augmented if he kills something in melee. Remember he averages 2 damage per turn. These are atrocious rules. And they are done with intent. You only need to look at what Marines are getting to understand why. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Thokt Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) Potential points leak of Necron units: Canoptek Doomstalker 130, Canoptek Reanimator 110, Canoptek Scarabs 13, Cryptothralls 20ea sqad of 2, Warriors 12pts, Lokhust Heavy Destroyer 70 ea 1-3, Overlord 90, Plasmancer 80, Royal Warden 80, Skorpekh Destroyers 40ea sqd of 3, upgrade for plasma scythe is 15 for 1 model, Skorpekh Lord 130 Edited July 1, 2020 by Get Thokt Sarges and 01RTB01 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 =][= Let's drop all combative tones. We're a bunch of enthusiastic hobbyists discussing the upcoming Necron release and all the glory and ruin that awaits us moving into a new edition. There's plenty of room for contrasting views and discussion without the extra dressing. =][= Szeras's rules are a bit of a let-down to me but he's the same as he was before with more things added. A beefed up stat-line with a couple extra limb attacks and eldritch lance is now d3 shots, something that complicates psychic powers at close range, and more chance to use his ability if he kills the last models from a unit or a character all for only 20 points more than current cost. We'll find out more about his application to 9th edition when the 9th edition Necron Codex is released but until then I imagine anyone who currently uses or was looking at including Szeras would be pretty stoked for these changes. Interesting that the Royal Warden is so high on the price spectrum, I wonder if we'll see the standard Lord increase to match. Either way if the RW's rumoured ability mitigating the effects of morale are true there's just about no cost too high for those of us playing blobs of Warriors. I saw the list of blast weapons over in the NRBA and it looks like the three classic options have returned in the death ray, doomsday cannon, and transdimensional beamer. I may have missed something but I'm pretty sure those were the only ones from 5th-7th as well. I feel like this will be almost negligible for the death ray and situational for the doomsday cannon but maybe we could see some use for tdb's on Wraiths? You could hide them in reserve with the Nephrekh stratagem or outflank them looking for units close to a board edge later on in the game (place some objectives near to board edges during setup to further this goal) and get 3 shots each on units of 6+ models. Tyriks and 01RTB01 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrom Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) I am very scared. It seems that for space marines and also necron from what we can see, they are making squad size for big models(centurions, destroyer ... To 3). If the reanimation protocol dont get reworked most of our good units will never have a chance to reanimate Edited July 1, 2020 by angrom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 For the record I'm here because I'm super excited for the new necron models and range. I'm not here to argue pointlessly or trollingly. Szeras being a deranged scientist doesn't mean he should be a combat monster. He is what it is. Lovely model, useable imo. As for averages, they very rarely play out. We can all cite instances where ridiculousness has happened at either end of the scale. When we see the codex we may have developed views, possibly not... Many thanks for sharing the points values, been eager to see these! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Points seem pretty close for the skorpekh models when we compare it to the 25 PL list GW provided. The heavy destroyers unit is currently 1-3 models. Going up 20 points base excluding weapons (assuming they get a point cost). Hopefully the beefy new model gets a beefy new stat line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Points seem pretty close for the skorpekh models when we compare it to the 25 PL list GW provided. The heavy destroyers unit is currently 1-3 models. Going up 20 points base excluding weapons (assuming they get a point cost). Hopefully the beefy new model gets a beefy new stat line. Beefy guns too! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364076-an-ancient-evil-awakens/page/12/#findComment-5551920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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