GW's supply drops are coming (mystery models inside)

[Petitioner's City]

Although interestingly, the UK government is moving against Loot Boxes as they are increasingly linked to gambling and addiction. Arguably these do return the investment - half the price of retail, so people are getting actual rewards for their impulse buy. Yet, how much of these will be dice, rulers, playmats, hazards and the like, and not actual warband minis? A warband is £20 retail, so unless that loot box has 4 warbands, less than half its value will be the miniatures people actually want.

[PeteySödes]

I'll go against the grain here a bit and say I'm fine with it as long as they DON'T include 1 off or create limited minis for these. As mentioned these will likely be great for bits if you're looking for a wide range of things (maybe dioramas etc). Once they leverage FOMO and gambling though with limited stuff I'd be pretty disappointed because I'm not gonna play that game.

[Joe]

Calling them "loot boxes" is incredibly snide - especially given the practice of "mystery boxes / blisters" has been employed across the miniatures industry for decades now.

 

Trying to connect them to a predatory digital practice that operates under an entirely different set of rules is just poor form.

 

Once again. This has been common practice in the hobby for a long time - on anywhere from £10 for a blind blister to £100 for a blind mystery box. Gripping Beast, Warlord Games and Footsore, all of which are prominent companies in the industry, have all pursued this practice in the past. If people didn't walk around with such a blinkered view of the hobby then they might actually realise this. 

 

Of course, it's far easier to complain incessantly about one thing than it is to actually look at the wider picture. Funny, seeing as that was what drove the old Warhammer forums down the drain in the long run.

 

Although interestingly, the UK government is moving against Loot Boxes as they are increasingly linked to gambling and addiction. Arguably these do return the investment - half the price of retail, so people are getting actual rewards for their impulse buy. Yet, how much of these will be dice, rulers, playmats, hazards and the like, and not actual warband minis? A warband is £20 retail, so unless that loot box has 4 warbands, less than half its value will be the miniatures people actually want.

Loot boxes are a different issue entirely - stemming from predatory digital practices that are largely enabled by companies like Activision, EA, Epic Games and various others. Physical "mystery boxes" aren't considered to be in the same product area in the slightest. Regardless, the blanket statement of "you're paying half-price for a randomised selection" is reasonable enough, especially when it comes to something like Underworlds where the selection is largely warbands and one or two terrain kits.

Edited August 5, 2020 by PeteySödes
Removed personal attack

[01RTB01]

 

 

I've just woken up (northern, east Canada) and knew nowt and they're all gone. That was quick! Curious to see what's in it. Guess that's the draw! You'd have to hope there's something worthwhile in there otherwise people won't bother in future?

 

Intrigued to see what's in them.

Since it was not available in the US and Canada you didn't actually miss anything. I am guessing they have less issues with getting some stock out in those markets or missed the stock for what they had in mind for the mix between what people might see as good and cheap/useless.

I've family in the UK so I could have got some. Cest la vie.

[Lord Marshal]

 

Calling them "loot boxes" is incredibly snide - especially given the practice of "mystery boxes / blisters" has been employed across the miniatures industry for decades now.

 

Trying to connect them to a predatory digital practice that operates under an entirely different set of rules is just poor form.

 

Once again. Dithering idiocy aside, this has been common practice in the hobby for a long time - on anywhere from £10 for a blind blister to £100 for a blind mystery box. Gripping Beast, Warlord Games and Footsore, all of which are prominent companies in the industry, have all pursued this practice in the past. If people didn't walk around with such a blinkered view of the hobby then they might actually realise this. 

 

Of course, it's far easier to complain incessantly about one thing than it is to actually look at the wider picture. Funny, seeing as that was what drove the old Warhammer forums down the drain in the long run.

 

Don't ask questions, just consume the product.

 

Just because this or that company doesn't mean that GW is somehow exempt from criticism, but of course that's exactly what'll happen a few years down the line when something gets brought up about it - "dude they've been doing it for years now anyway, who cares?" I think part of why people might be sceptical is that GW are likely to take this to it's natural conclusion if (well, there's no if now I suppose) this proves successful, in that there's a risk we'll start going from 'outlet stock' being shoved into these, onto things like limited edition collectables and eventually models/units... yours for only £75! Maybe! Or from your friendly Ebay reseller for £300!

 

Anyhow, I'm sure someone out there will be happy with their box of Catachans and Finecast.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[Petitioner's City]

Loot boxes are a different issue entirely - stemming from predatory digital practices that are largely enabled by companies like Activision, EA, Epic Games and various others. Physical "mystery boxes" aren't considered to be in the same product area in the slightest. Regardless, the blanket statement of "you're paying half-price for a randomised selection" is reasonable enough, especially when it comes to something like Underworlds where the selection is largely warbands and one or two terrain kits.

Indeed, fair points on loot boxes/mystery boxes, but there is still an element of gambling here and compulsion/lack of control - and arguably predatory fomo marketing. But that's indeed a different kettle of fish - this is hopefully not targeting vulnerable teens and addicts....

 

On the contents they were very keen to emphasises accessories, and there is a large range of accessories (card sleeves, mats, etc) for Underworlds that could easily fill the box.

[Joe]

There's a difference between approaching an issue prepared to give reasonable critique and feedback, and sitting at your computer consistently complaining about everything a company or individual does simply because you feel personally aggrieved by X, Y or Z. As a community the dialogue has shifted far, far too much towards the latter. It's easy to get in a few cheap potshots at "the other" with a few well-ridden buzzwords than it is to craft something meaningful at the end of the day.

 

Regardless, it's funny watching people give Games Workshop flak for pursuing a practice that other companies are praised for - they can't do anything right, after all. Gotta let them know that every day, right?

[Blindhamster]

i saw it an they were already sold out, think i saw it about 20 mins after they were announced on facebook... im not convinced i'd buy one anyway as i simply have very little need for random sets, i doubt id even buy one if it was purely space marines honestly.

 

but i can see how some people would like them. They're definitely loot boxes though, you're gambling on the chance of getting a set you want, chances are that at the cost you'll be lucky if you manage to get enough you're actually happy with to justify the price.

now... a hobby box that is random paints, brushes, basing materials etc? I could see that being something useful as chances are it's all useful no matter who you are. I guess the underworlds one is useful if you're an underworlds player too. But unless they go faction specific i don't see how this is something most people will actually get anything they really want from.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I relish the salt we will see when fraters complain about what they got. :D

[PeteySödes]

=][=  Friendly (for now) reminder here to play nice. I can see the temp rising here but understand that everyone is allowed opinions and mystery/loot box type things have a lot of baggage in the larger community. Please be respectful.  =][=

Edited August 5, 2020 by PeteySödes

[Redcomet]

This is genius actually... oh no, don't get me wrong, I hate it with a passion but it's no secret that no consumer base in the world has as poor impulse control as Warhammer collectors - save, arguably, heroin addicts. That they've already sold out - even the Underworlds one - nearly had me in stitches.

 

Just... man. Whoever pushed this is probably going to get one hell of a raise.

 

I'd also be willing to bet (not £75 mind) that most of their """influencers""" will coincidentally be uploading unboxings of these any day now.

They probably will. And think it is the bee knees, whatever they get.

[Doghouse]

I bet it's a box of all the excess oop easy to build stuff! :D

[Brother Tyler]

Instead of all of us complaining about the supply drops, perhaps we should wait for listings/pictures from those that actually bought them.

 

The "value" of the contents will depend upon the needs/desires of the individual consumer, so Player X might be very happy with the contents while Player Y might be dissatisfied with the exact same contents. What we can judge here is whether or not the boxes are a fair deal on average.

[Magos Takatus]

I personally thought it might be fun, but not £75 fun. I think there's too many options for Imperium for me to consider it. Even an Adeptus Mechanicus faction box would have me thinking twice. 

 

Perhaps a Blood Bowl box might be more up my street but knowing my luck I'd only get duplicate teams.

 

In general I'm not comfortable with something at this price point. I am trying to paint different models to broaden my painting ability somewhat but getting half of an Imperial Guard army wouldn't really help me with that.

[Arkhanist]

From the article: "Bitz box looking barren? Supercharge it with this bundle!"

 

Remember when you could fill up your bitz box with the amount of extra options and gubbins that used to come in the multipart boxes? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[mactire]

Can anyone who gets one please post the contents here, it will people a chance to see if there's actual value in it or not.

[trees]

I have to expect the bulk of these boxes were kits that haven't been selling well and they want them out of their warehouse.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The reason why it's not actual gambling is that the boxes are fixed. There's no variation in results across multiple buys and no mystery after the initial one. The cost is fixed, the monetary reward is a fixed 2x the cost, the product reward is fixed. There's no gamble. No one is going to hit a 1:100000 unit in their space marine supply drop; everyone gets the same stuff.

[trees]

The reason why it's not actual gambling is that the boxes are fixed. There's no variation in results across multiple buys and no mystery after the initial one. The cost is fixed, the monetary reward is a fixed 2x the cost, the product reward is fixed. There's no gamble. No one is going to hit a 1:100000 unit in their space marine supply drop; everyone gets the same stuff.

 

The monetary reward is only fixed based on the prices on GWs website, doesn't mean they are actually selling.  I got no issues with this though and people that want to buy it, but I would say it is gambling in the sense that what you get may or may not be worth it.

[Halandaar]

In the rush to decry loot boxes, many are failing to notice a simple yet fundamental difference between the two things.

 

"Loot boxes" in digital gaming are not exploitative simply because they are random, they're exploitative because in-game power is gated behind them AND they are random. Look at something like FIFA Ultimate Team; if you want the best players in your team you need to pay for the packs and hope the RNG falls in your favour. You can spend a lot of money and end up with nothing that actually improves your ability to compete in the game.

 

These boxes are completely different because, although the contents are random, you are not forced to buy them to have a chance at getting the one thing you need for your army. You can just go and buy that thing outright, at face value, whenever you want (stock issues notwithstanding)

 

If a £75 box of random items was the one and only way to build your collection, and you had to hope against the odds that you finally pull a Primaris Captain to lead your 46 Scout Squads (not mentioning the 837 other Xenos kits you got in the process) then this comparison would have some legs,but really they are only superficially alike.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Wow - I'm surprised they sold out that quickly!  Even though I wouldn't buy one, I'm somewhat interested to know what was in them out of a sense of idle curiosity, though.

 

Remember when you could fill up your bitz box with the amount of extra options and gubbins that used to come in the multipart boxes? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

I remember when you could do crazy things like order a single plastic Space Marine or dragon wing from Mail Order ... somewhat hard to do these days given how the sprues are arranged

Edited August 5, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova

[Elzender]

I mean, while I see the similarities and understand why some fraters are not happy with it, I would argue that it's not exactly the same as a digital loot box. First, here you know the value of what you're getting, whereas in a lot of games with loot boxes, your reward can vary greatly in value, and they actually use that to tempt you. The perceived value is obviously a whole different story, but as many fraters have said, it doesn't take much to figure that these boxes will likely not contain the latest releases, but rather older models that are not as popular (IG plastic infantry being a prime candidate). With a bit of luck, GW might have included a nice/newer kit to sweeten the deal. And maybe, while you would never pay full price for some catachan or cadians, getting a box of them at 50% discount is not so bad, even if it'a just to get some bits out of it for decoration or conversions, maybe even to add small details to terrain.

 

In second place, I think it is kinda difficult for this to induce any addiction, due to their evidently limited availability, but also due to their price point. Had it been still available when I received the newsletter, I might have considered getting one, because I like most Imperial factions, but it is unlikely I would get another one in following releases, or at least in the near future, as it likely would contain some things I would not be interested in, discouraging me from getting another one. At a 100 euros, this is the kind of thing that you might get if you happen to have some good amount of spare cash and like the idea of getting a random project, there is no other kit you fancy right now, or you know you have friends that might be interested in some of the stuff you don't want.

An important aspect as to why loot boxes are usually considered insidious is because they are usually cheap individually, but since the chances of getting what you want are low, you might end up buying a lot of them and spend a truckload of money in a flash, because they are only a couple of clicks away, depending on your online payment configuration. Here you are giving them a good amount of money upfront, but you'll have to wait to receive it, open it, and likely be a bit disappointed that it did not contain an Imperial Knight and a full detachment of Sisters of Battle :D. After that, I cannot imagine people saying "Well, I'mma get another one, maybe I get lucky and I get that 80 euros kit that I actually want".

 

And regarding FOMO, it is kinda hard to suffer from it when they did not even announce them before they released them :D. In my personal case, if there is another round, they happen to be available for more than 24 hours, and the contents potentially interest me, I might consider getting one, but I'm not gonna rush or be checking daily the webpage for them.

 

Edit: can you frater imagine if GW has actually put some care in selecting the products inside the boxes, so that while you are likely getting old/unpopular stuff, as a whole it becomes a nice little package for a Crusade force? I know this is probably only likely to happen with an Imperial-themed box, but getting some IG troops, a small Adeptus Mechanicus detachment and then a firstborn squad with its transport for fast deployment would be kinda neat.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Elzender

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I think it's a nice deal for those that collext everything.

Even if someone is disappointed at the contents they can still put it online for sale and get their money back...

[Klod]

I don't understand, why is this so negatively recieved? There is no ingame benefit from these Supply Drops. You don't like them - you don't buy them. You're not gona miss out on anything if you ignore their existence.

 

Unless they contain unique models which you can't get anywhere else (e.g. Catachan Colonel) there is nothing to complain about.

[Montford]

I may order one through my FLGS as I have a few hundred bucks in store credit :)