State of the Union (Heresy)

[Armillion]

I recall Heresy being mentioned at least twice this week by Adam - however, it's worth noting there were plenty of other games that weren't featured. Warcry, Adeptus Titanicus, Blood Bowl, Middle-earth.

 

It's a bummer that nothing was announced, but to be perfectly honest it's folly hyping yourself up for something that hasn't been explicitly promised. Putting any stock in rumours that are obvious clickbait is daft as well.

Fair statement and had forgotten about the other misses in IP lineup.

 

The rumors always sounded like wistful thinking from the community in the first place imo. Though just wish there was something concrete out on the horizon to latch onto.

[StrangerOrders]

I recall Heresy being mentioned at least twice this week by Adam - however, it's worth noting there were plenty of other games that weren't featured. Warcry, Adeptus Titanicus, Blood Bowl, Middle-earth.

 

It's a bummer that nothing was announced, but to be perfectly honest it's folly hyping yourself up for something that hasn't been explicitly promised. Putting any stock in rumours that are obvious clickbait is daft as well.

Eh....

 

That does not hold alot of water with regards to those.

 

Warcry has had a ton of sets over the year, Titanicus just got a big centerpiece, book and battle force. Blood Bowl recently got a full set and its a weird week that something new for Middle Earth does not get a brand new FW release.

 

As for us... we have Maloghurst to show for... what, six to eight months?

 

They did not get a mention when they have recently gotten alot while we are looking for a pulse and using half-year timespans to define 'very recently'. And are really happy when we see a single sculpt and do not even think to ask for when it is actually released.

Edited May 8, 2021 by StrangerOrders

[WrathOfTheLion]

I recall Heresy being mentioned at least twice this week by Adam - however, it's worth noting there were plenty of other games that weren't featured. Warcry, Adeptus Titanicus, Blood Bowl, Middle-earth.

 

It's a bummer that nothing was announced, but to be perfectly honest it's folly hyping yourself up for something that hasn't been explicitly promised. Putting any stock in rumours that are obvious clickbait is daft as well.

All of those have had something over the past year though. Maloghurst has been the only model, book or anything revealed for Heresy in more than a year at this point. 1 character announced over a 13 month time period is not encouraging.

 

Do they even have a team working on the game at all at this point? I don't know who in their right mind there thinks they have the capacity to expand into and support another game system with the Old World.

Edited May 8, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Indefragable]

The fact that nothing has been mentioned at all is a level of tone deafness that is infuriating.

 

The fact that even a “and Horus Heresy guys, don’t worry, we’re working on stuff for you guys as well” (literally 1 sentence) is ALL that would have been needed to make me happy is just how bad things have gotten.

 

I expected nothing and somehow I’m still disappointed.

[jaxom]

HH doesn’t fit into any of the reveal categories (and that’s part of the problem); it’s not AoS, 40k, or a Boxed Game.

[Hfran Morkai]

HH doesn’t fit into any of the reveal categories (and that’s part of the problem); it’s not AoS, 40k, or a Boxed Game.

It could have been the "Mystery" or they could have announced another boxed game like they did with Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero that also happened to be great starters for HH armies.

 

Sadly it wasn't, we weren't involved in this but we'll just have to keep the fire alive. We do know there is SOME work going on, we just have no clue what it is barring Maloghurst.

[Billy the Squid]

 

I recall Heresy being mentioned at least twice this week by Adam - however, it's worth noting there were plenty of other games that weren't featured. Warcry, Adeptus Titanicus, Blood Bowl, Middle-earth.

 

It's a bummer that nothing was announced, but to be perfectly honest it's folly hyping yourself up for something that hasn't been explicitly promised. Putting any stock in rumours that are obvious clickbait is daft as well.

All of those have had something over the past year though. Maloghurst has been the only model, book or anything revealed for Heresy in more than a year at this point. 1 character announced over a 13 month time period is not encouraging.

 

Do they even have a team working on the game at all at this point? I don't know who in their right mind there thinks they have the capacity to expand into and support another game system with the Old World.

 

 

Typical executive level disconnect, promise the moon and the stars without checking with the guys who are actually responsible for generating the work.

 

In my line of work it's often partners promising clients things and deadlines, which are totally unrealistic, I've had to turn around and point blank state it's not getting done unless something gets bumped, so do you want to tell the client or should I? 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Billy the Squid

[Joe]

The fact that nothing has been mentioned at all is a level of tone deafness that is infuriating.

 

The fact that even a “and Horus Heresy guys, don’t worry, we’re working on stuff for you guys as well” (literally 1 sentence) is ALL that would have been needed to make me happy is just how bad things have gotten.

 

I expected nothing and somehow I’m still disappointed.

 

I mean, we have had that - around three weeks ago. As I previously said not every system was on display at Warhammer Fest (nor are they ever) - personally, I was a bit miffed we didn't get to see Traitor Legios for Adeptus Titanicus, but I'm not going to let that ruin my day.

 

All aside, we know there are two more preview weekends slated for this month courtesy of Adam on the stream yesterday - there's always a chance we'll see Heresy pop up there; if not, in one of the articles they've already flagged are planned. Truth be told we've known for years that Forge World have issues communicating with the main studio; and people were remarkably hostile when I lambasted the studio over their poor communication record during the last big product purge. It's actually kind of funny how we've rolled around.

 

As far as Forge World goes? We know they went through a colossal hiring spree between the end of 2019 and 2020 - given many of those positions haven't been re-advertised they've likely been filled. At the same time we also know that at least one designer (Alexandre Dumillard) shifted over to the main Citadel team in that time.

 

I dunno, there's a layer of irony about this all at the end of the day. I remember when Space Wolves players were roundly mocked for being one of the more vocal elements complaining that their Heresy-era releases hadn't been shown off, given a release date or that there was no sign of the black book - now, it's the Heresy as a whole. 

[Kenzaburo]

I think others might have gotten the core of the matter right: Since we know that they are monitoring the community and know about the heresy player's lament, they really should have mentioned the heresy, if something is coming. I'd do that for all systems, actually, that are about to get some form of support in the next few months. Just a "if you are more of a fan of the great horus heresy and long for epic battle between gods and half-gods, don't fret: we got some stuff coming for you soon. if you are into battles of smaller scale but none the less epic, you might be curious about some Kill Team news. Don't worry, we'll have you covered in the near future as well." 

 

This way, at least you don't have nothing, you are not overhyping stuff, just acknowledge that part of the fan base. Because that is the most important part when talking to your customers - show understanding and tell them, that the end of a dark road might lie not so far ahead. 

 

Instead they chose to say nothing, have a vocal part of people frustrated and that's that. Now it's time for the hope game again - hope, that one of those upcoming reveal slots is about the heresy. I just think it would be way better to say so, if that is the case. The mystery is doing nothing for them, just building up hype that can turn into rage in an instant. Now, there's also the chance, that the heresy is not part of those two reveals and that's the reason they didn't mention it. Well, if that's the case...

 

Some communication expert at GW must have realized tho, that not mentioning a game that used to have it's own weekenders, for crying out loud, might not be such a good idea.

[jaxom]

 

HH doesn’t fit into any of the reveal categories (and that’s part of the problem); it’s not AoS, 40k, or a Boxed Game.

It could have been the "Mystery" or they could have announced another boxed game like they did with Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero that also happened to be great starters for HH armies.

 

The mystery? Possibly, though AoS 3 was the favored bet by a long shot. As for boxed game, I did some thinking and it occurred to me how unusual B@C and BoP actually were. They were billed as board games, but had full customizable miniature kits (for the majority of the Space Marine infantry, at least), and both sides had the same color plastic; unlike every other modern-era GW board game (with all easy-to-build or single-mold and colored plastics to avoid the need for painting). The's no cognizant business plan for expanding from B@C or BoP into HH unless one was already hooked into the GW or HH community. Big-box book stores carrying them don't have the individual GW squad kits, FLGS don't usually carry FW. And that's assuming someone wanted more minis and not more gameplay in which case HH is not equivalent at all. The rules were as to HH as Underworlds is to AoS; completely separate. Even the lore is separate from what one is likely to find. I can pick up Space Marine Adventures in Target or Borders (in the USA), get hooked on the universe, find a GW or FLGS, and the default options to continue that feed are 40k. To paraphrase the "How to get into HH cheap" thread: HH is a niche of a niche hobby, and it's not different enough to a new player that there's a good reason to push it at the same level or over 40k.

 

Why spend money on board game components when the plastics could have been bundled as HH Start Collecting sets (especially if they were bundled with a 5th edition style mini-rulebook)? Well, I would assume someone thought that the HH crowd would buy them regardless and stand-alone, buy once and done, board games would also draw another crowd.

 

There are definitely paths open to FW/GW to making HH more accessible, but I think it all comes down to what exactly the corporate-side wants out of the line. That's the information we're least likely to hear about and wouldn't be passed around until something was set in stone. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Eh gw went through a phase of "board games" that used the full kits like the knight vs knight box and the chaos drake vs something box. You have to remember that prospero came out in 2016 and Calth was 2015; right in the middle of 7th edition where a lot of marketing decisions were different. Aos 1 was also a product of 2015 for example lol.

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

 

The fact that nothing has been mentioned at all is a level of tone deafness that is infuriating.

 

The fact that even a “and Horus Heresy guys, don’t worry, we’re working on stuff for you guys as well” (literally 1 sentence) is ALL that would have been needed to make me happy is just how bad things have gotten.

 

I expected nothing and somehow I’m still disappointed.

 

I mean, we have had that - around three weeks ago. As I previously said not every system was on display at Warhammer Fest (nor are they ever) - personally, I was a bit miffed we didn't get to see Traitor Legios for Adeptus Titanicus, but I'm not going to let that ruin my day.

 

All aside, we know there are two more preview weekends slated for this month courtesy of Adam on the stream yesterday - there's always a chance we'll see Heresy pop up there; if not, in one of the articles they've already flagged are planned. Truth be told we've known for years that Forge World have issues communicating with the main studio; and people were remarkably hostile when I lambasted the studio over their poor communication record during the last big product purge. It's actually kind of funny how we've rolled around.

 

As far as Forge World goes? We know they went through a colossal hiring spree between the end of 2019 and 2020 - given many of those positions haven't been re-advertised they've likely been filled. At the same time we also know that at least one designer (Alexandre Dumillard) shifted over to the main Citadel team in that time.

 

I dunno, there's a layer of irony about this all at the end of the day. I remember when Space Wolves players were roundly mocked for being one of the more vocal elements complaining that their Heresy-era releases hadn't been shown off, given a release date or that there was no sign of the black book - now, it's the Heresy as a whole. 

 

You have to understand something though. Titanicus is not a fair example to the Heresy as two game systems, because Titanicus fans aren't worried that the multi-month radio silence after years of drip-fed content means that they're done for. Titanicus kits haven't gone Last Chance to Buy en-masse. Titanicus has been shown that it will be continously supported. Your average Titanicus player isn't going "Oh I'm worried i'll never get these weapons made" (equivalent of models for some special units; although multiple Legions have gone without any of those models for years), with Titanicus it's a "I'm aware it'll come, I just have to wait a few months". Different mind sets.

 

You're insinuating we're being very petulant, and I understand that sometimes the most vocal voices aren't the most calm and collected people - but has the Age of Darkness community had any reason to feel like they're /not/ a forgotten system, treated as an after-thought? Certainly has felt that way for a few years now. Heresy weekender being canned in 2019, and then 2020 obviously wasn't the year for events, but I digress.

 

I think others might have gotten the core of the matter right: Since we know that they are monitoring the community and know about the heresy player's lament, they really should have mentioned the heresy, if something is coming. I'd do that for all systems, actually, that are about to get some form of support in the next few months. Just a "if you are more of a fan of the great horus heresy and long for epic battle between gods and half-gods, don't fret: we got some stuff coming for you soon. if you are into battles of smaller scale but none the less epic, you might be curious about some Kill Team news. Don't worry, we'll have you covered in the near future as well." 

 

This way, at least you don't have nothing, you are not overhyping stuff, just acknowledge that part of the fan base. Because that is the most important part when talking to your customers - show understanding and tell them, that the end of a dark road might lie not so far ahead. 

 

Instead they chose to say nothing, have a vocal part of people frustrated and that's that. Now it's time for the hope game again - hope, that one of those upcoming reveal slots is about the heresy. I just think it would be way better to say so, if that is the case. The mystery is doing nothing for them, just building up hype that can turn into rage in an instant. Now, there's also the chance, that the heresy is not part of those two reveals and that's the reason they didn't mention it. Well, if that's the case...

 

Some communication expert at GW must have realized tho, that not mentioning a game that used to have it's own weekenders, for crying out loud, might not be such a good idea.

A single line of communication. That's all we want. Something like the damned sisters of battle video announcement from way back; aka a "We hear you. We're working on it, it's a ways off". SOMETHING like that. 

[Noctus Cornix]

 

I dunno, there's a layer of irony about this all at the end of the day. I remember when Space Wolves players were roundly mocked for being one of the more vocal elements complaining that their Heresy-era releases hadn't been shown off, given a release date or that there was no sign of the black book - now, it's the Heresy as a whole. 

 

 

To be fair, most people (myself included) don't need an excuse to make fun of Space Wolf players. :P

[Bung]

 

 

 

I dunno, there's a layer of irony about this all at the end of the day. I remember when Space Wolves players were roundly mocked for being one of the more vocal elements complaining that their Heresy-era releases hadn't been shown off, given a release date or that there was no sign of the black book - now, it's the Heresy as a whole.

 

To be fair, most people (myself included) don't need an excuse to make fun of Space Wolf players. :P

I thought there was a rule that you have to make fun of SW Players since third Edition.

 

Back to topic.

Things like this make me think that there is still that garage company grown to fast GW.

[Marshal Rohr]

Very unusual, the guy GW had write a few Heresy articles a few years back just mentioned being disappointed but knowing 'our time will come'. He's a massive jerk and super insulting towards the Heresy and fans of the Heresy on Twitter but maybe he knows something due to his connections with GW? 

 

 

https://twitter.com/ChildofFang/status/1391084109779382272?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[Pacific81]

Guys I'm sure the lack of news is disappointing, but at least you know nothing major is on the immediate horizon. No new HH 9th edition version etc. (trying to look for the positives!)

If this was 8-9 years ago we didn't know a new release was coming until the day it arrived and the development was sewn up tighter than a (insert your expletive here). Typically this would always be a week after you had paid out for a new book.. There was a climate of fear where fan sites/forums were STOPPING discussion/speculation and review of new products because they were so afraid of being hit by a C&D. It was awful.

So no good news, but remembering distinctly when the situation was different, at least now there is some news and engagement with the fan community & social media.

[WITCHKING501]

Guys I'm sure the lack of news is disappointing, but at least you know nothing major is on the immediate horizon. No new HH 9th edition version etc. (trying to look for the positives!)

If this was 8-9 years ago we didn't know a new release was coming until the day it arrived and the development was sewn up tighter than a (insert your expletive here). Typically this would always be a week after you had paid out for a new book.. There was a climate of fear where fan sites/forums were STOPPING discussion/speculation and review of new products because they were so afraid of being hit by a C&D. It was awful.

So no good news, but remembering distinctly when the situation was different, at least now there is some news and engagement with the fan community & social media.

 

GW as a whole has changed since then, we now have a dedicated marketing team (warhammer community) spewing out 20+ articles a week, we have sneak peaks and previews and roadmaps for other game systems (necromunda, underworlds) The only teaser the age of farkness has had in the last 13 months is one 4  paragraph article and 1 photo of a model that has had rules for 5+ years? It really isnt asking for much other than, during a week of ALL THINGS WARHAMMER that there is something, anything to do with the Age of Darkness. This is the first warhammer fest in 9 years that we havent had a single word about the game system as a whole. 

[jaxom]

Legion Dispatch was 4/15, we’ll find out soon if regular series means monthly.

[Cris R]

 

Guys I'm sure the lack of news is disappointing, but at least you know nothing major is on the immediate horizon. No new HH 9th edition version etc. (trying to look for the positives!)

If this was 8-9 years ago we didn't know a new release was coming until the day it arrived and the development was sewn up tighter than a (insert your expletive here). Typically this would always be a week after you had paid out for a new book.. There was a climate of fear where fan sites/forums were STOPPING discussion/speculation and review of new products because they were so afraid of being hit by a C&D. It was awful.

So no good news, but remembering distinctly when the situation was different, at least now there is some news and engagement with the fan community & social media.

 

GW as a whole has changed since then, we now have a dedicated marketing team (warhammer community) spewing out 20+ articles a week, we have sneak peaks and previews and roadmaps for other game systems (necromunda, underworlds) The only teaser the age of farkness has had in the last 13 months is one 4  paragraph article and 1 photo of a model that has had rules for 5+ years? It really isnt asking for much other than, during a week of ALL THINGS WARHAMMER that there is something, anything to do with the Age of Darkness. This is the first warhammer fest in 9 years that we havent had a single word about the game system as a whole. 

 

This. I remember around the time 8th was released, GW invested more in their communication outreach and community engagement strategy to make up for the virtual black box that existed before that period and alienated some fans. Warhammer Community came out and they began sponsoring cons - and even hiring folks who organized them - to show they turned the page. That's why this silence over the broad vision for 30k is frustrating: GW has basically reverted back to its old practices for our system while the others systems receive a lot more attention. Obviously the new character series and accompanying articles are welcome developments but I hope the comments about 30k missing from Warhammer Fest during the final live stream helped GW realize they need to do more here.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Cris R

[Indefragable]

Precisely, @Cris R. 

 

The contrast between "new GW" style of communication on everything--including paintbrushes--and FW's style of just.....next to nothing....communicated on 30k is what makes it so frustrating. Clearly there is the infrastructure and corporate willpower to do more, that's just not being done for any number of reasons. 

[Pacific81]

But doesn't all of that just indicate that nothing is in the immediate pipeline (or at least, anything from a plastic kit/main GW release perspective?)

 

I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. It's just I'm fairly recent back into paying any attention to new GW releases, and it's a massive contrast to how I remember it from late 00's, early 10's, where the news release and miniature news consisted of what some guy in Poland hiding in a toilet to take a blurred picture of a WD page (which then got immediately removed as the site would be crapping themselves that they would get a C&D).

Edited May 10, 2021 by Pacific81

[Cris R]

But doesn't all of that just indicate that nothing is in the immediate pipeline (or at least, anything from a plastic kit/main GW release perspective?)

 

I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. It's just I'm fairly recent back into paying any attention to new GW releases, and it's a massive contrast to how I remember it from late 00's, early 10's, where the news release and miniature news consisted of what some guy in Poland hiding in a toilet to take a blurred picture of a WD page (which then got immediately removed as the site would be crapping themselves that they would get a C&D).

 

The first point raises a broader business question: how does a company communicate this point - no major product releases are coming out for the foreseeable future - without causing people to drop the product and cost the business a source of revenue? Corporate communication consultants and business classes have dedicated a lot of time to this exact topic, so I won't attempt to answer it since that's beyond the scope of this thread. All I will say is it's not an easy question for any business to answer, so I get @Pacific81's point. That said, that's one of the major issues GW faces with 30k and I think avoiding it entirely is undermining long-term faith in the product line.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Cris R

[WITCHKING501]

 

But doesn't all of that just indicate that nothing is in the immediate pipeline (or at least, anything from a plastic kit/main GW release perspective?)

 

I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. It's just I'm fairly recent back into paying any attention to new GW releases, and it's a massive contrast to how I remember it from late 00's, early 10's, where the news release and miniature news consisted of what some guy in Poland hiding in a toilet to take a blurred picture of a WD page (which then got immediately removed as the site would be crapping themselves that they would get a C&D).

 

The first point raises a broader business question: how does a company communicate this point - no major product releases are coming out for the foreseeable future - without causing people to drop the product and cost the business a source of revenue? Corporate communication consultants and business classes have dedicated a lot of time to this exact topic, so I won't attempt to answer it since that's beyond the scope of this thread. All I will say is it's not an easy question for any business to answer, so I get @Pacific81's point. That said, that's one of the major issues GW faces with 30k and I think avoiding it entirely is undermining long-term faith in the product line.

 

 

The first battle sisters bulletin worked fine though. Here you guys, you have been screaming at us for sisters, we dont have anything soon, this is what we are working on. Renders, artwork, illustrations, rules previews. The first was 8+ months before any hints of models coming out... The community as a whole lapped that up. Set expectations early. 

 

I would love to see what the FW team are up to, sneak peaks of models they are working on, rules previews for new models, artwork of future publications. 

 

The silence we have now is deafening.

[Indefragable]

 

 

But doesn't all of that just indicate that nothing is in the immediate pipeline (or at least, anything from a plastic kit/main GW release perspective?)

 

I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here. It's just I'm fairly recent back into paying any attention to new GW releases, and it's a massive contrast to how I remember it from late 00's, early 10's, where the news release and miniature news consisted of what some guy in Poland hiding in a toilet to take a blurred picture of a WD page (which then got immediately removed as the site would be crapping themselves that they would get a C&D).

 

The first point raises a broader business question: how does a company communicate this point - no major product releases are coming out for the foreseeable future - without causing people to drop the product and cost the business a source of revenue? Corporate communication consultants and business classes have dedicated a lot of time to this exact topic, so I won't attempt to answer it since that's beyond the scope of this thread. All I will say is it's not an easy question for any business to answer, so I get @Pacific81's point. That said, that's one of the major issues GW faces with 30k and I think avoiding it entirely is undermining long-term faith in the product line.

 

 

The first battle sisters bulletin worked fine though. Here you guys, you have been screaming at us for sisters, we dont have anything soon, this is what we are working on. Renders, artwork, illustrations, rules previews. The first was 8+ months before any hints of models coming out... The community as a whole lapped that up. Set expectations early. 

 

I would love to see what the FW team are up to, sneak peaks of models they are working on, rules previews for new models, artwork of future publications. 

 

The silence we have now is deafening.

 

 

^This.

 

In the restaurant industry, if it's taking your food forever to come out...the waiter/manager still come by to say "sorry for the wait, can I get you a complimentary beverage in the meantime?" or such. It takes minimal effort (you don't even have to do a free drink) and the simple act of showing the customer they haven't been forgotten goes a LONG way to keeping them from up and leaving. 

 

Also, let's be real, we aren't even clamoring for the Emperor to get a model. Get us updated FAQ's/Errata, answer burning questions, etc... The Book 9 FAQ was just plain odd. 

[Brofist]

Guys, there was never a new GW. It's the same company. It never cared about you and it never will.