State of the Union (Heresy)

[Dark Legionnare]

 

I think the main problem is that GW has decided to just sit out the leaks.

Something like 'major changes are coming to the age of darkness, but dont worry your legions will stay valid and artillery will still scatter' as a line in a legion dispatch with a graphic of a box and rulebook with questionmarks in them would have been enough to smooth over a ton of discontent.

If a new edition doesn't let me fuse my terminators to the walls of each and every new table, I will either house rule it or just use the old rules

 

All my homies love it when my terminators melt with the terrain in a catastrophic teleportation maneuver resulting in agonizing death.

 

No "oldhammer"/30K match is complete without a terminator mishap putting them either is the extreme back corner, or with arms sticking out of bulkheads/terrain.

 

Just got a salamanders buddy into it, and I keep bringing a warmonger just to try to get a mishap to illustrate why it's so dangerous, but the SOB's keep scattering 3 or less, and always the exact opposite direction of death.  I'm just going to have to put them right in the middle of his army with 3" in every direction barely free at this rate.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Dark Legionnare

[Gederas]

I think the main problem is that GW has decided to just sit out the leaks.

Something like 'major changes are coming to the age of darkness, but dont worry your legions will stay valid and artillery will still scatter' as a line in a legion dispatch with a graphic of a box and rulebook with questionmarks in them would have been enough to smooth over a ton of discontent.

If a new edition doesn't let me fuse my terminators to the walls of each and every new table, I will either house rule it or just use the old rules

 

All my homies love it when my terminators melt with the terrain in a catastrophic teleportation maneuver resulting in agonizing death.

 

No "oldhammer"/30K match is complete without a terminator mishap putting them either is the extreme back corner, or with arms sticking out of bulkheads/terrain.

 

Just got a salamanders buddy into it, and I keep bringing a warmonger just to try to get a mishap to illustrate why it's so dangerous, but the SOB's keep scattering 3 or less, and always the exact opposite direction of death.  I'm just going to have to put them right in the middle of his army with 3" in every direction barely free at this rate.

 

[Brofist]

Was the lack of anything the same for WH fantasy before they nuked it out of nowhere? Edited August 6, 2021 by Brofist

[Noserenda]

Naah Warhammer had a huge, not perfect but generally pretty solid, end times campaign that reinvigorated the brand and energised the players before the nuked it out of nowhere. (Which is why folks were so angry i suspect) 

[Brofist]

Sorry, but what about before the end times campaign?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Sorry, but what about before the end times campaign?

The first campaign book came out in August 2014, with the last army book in may of the same year. The support for wfb was...wonky. There were 4 books released in the year before the end times started, but there was 10 months between the start of the 2013 push and the previous army book. In fact, there was more 8th edition books released in that year and a half than there was in the previous two and a half years of the editions life cycle.

 

So if anything, 30k is the opposite. Big support at the start, sputtering out at the end.

[Pacific81]

Like, i cant lie, i was pretty disappointed about Old World not being epic scaled, even with 2+ square based armies lying around in dusty boxes

As it is, there's a ton of people who are screaming for a 28mm return to fantasy, and they're going to get exactly that, but hey if its successful we may see a return to Warmaster one day.

 

I do think though that we're probably going to see a epic scale heresy one day. The fact that the item coding thing ended up being true really is interesting, especially given that the new AT stuff shares the same code as Epic Armageddon from back in the day.

 

 

There is no need to wait, there is a pretty good range of miniatures from Vanguard and 3D printing files available generally, all supported by a very active community on FB. You have a pick of rules available for free online (either NetEpic, Epic Armageddon or the new Imperius Dominatus, which was written specifically for 30k). And none of the fear of the constant rules cycle of 40k where appallingly inbalanced or miniature sale-driven updates will sink an army you have spent so much money on, so there is that too 

 

I don't think GW will ever do an official Epic release simply because of the volume of SKUs required to make even a basic release line, it wouldn't be like AT where you can get away with a dozen or so. And to be frank they want everyone to buy huge armies in 28mm now, despite how large tanks and titans aren't suited to that scale, because it makes them a tremendous amount of money and it would be self-defeating to make things available at a lower price point.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Pacific81

[Brofist]

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

[Noserenda]

Oh i dunno, the way plastics can work these days i think it would be a lot more straightforward to do the mass variety of epic, you just run them out on mixed sprues of infantry and/or tanks, folks can buy multiples or swap around to get more specialised formations but given a lot of tanks in particular are just different turret loadouts they should be fairly simple to get on sprue. 

The Heresy in particular remains a huge saver for GW on this because you can release the game with one playable faction of models and have it work, then add other factions down the line as you fancy.

[No Foes Remain]

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

Saw that too, I wonder if it was a mistake or are they changing the lore of Krieg?

[Valkyrion]

 

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

Saw that too, I wonder if it was a mistake or are they changing the lore of Krieg?

 

 

 

Sorry if it's obvious and apparent, but saw what?

[MichaelCarmine]

Well i don't think you have to change anything lore-wise, since there is no real date, on how long ago the planet Krieg was discovered/conolized.

Only real date mentioned is, when the rebellion on the Planet started and how long the war was fought.

 

I think they could well have existed at the time of the Heresy. 

Though they wouldn't have needed the masks at that time, i suppose! xD

 

I have to clarify, that i didn't read the Vraks books, so if there was something mentioned, i apologize.

All the info i have, comes from multiple Wiki-Websites...

[MichaelCarmine]

 

 

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

Saw that too, I wonder if it was a mistake or are they changing the lore of Krieg?

 

 

 

Sorry if it's obvious and apparent, but saw what?

 

They updated some Death Korps Units on the FW website with a new paintscheme and in some pictures, they added  the Horus Heresy "Watermark" to them. =]

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

Saw that too, I wonder if it was a mistake or are they changing the lore of Krieg?

Honestly the death korps are relatively newcomers in the grand scheme of things as Krieg only went rogue 433.m40. They could change the lore to have whatever drives their cult of sacrifice happen during the crusade or something.

 

@michaelcarmine it's not Krieg being colonized that started the death korps, it's the rebellion against the emperor and ensuing nuclear solution+atonement almost at the end of 40ks timeline that did it. Gotta rewind 10000 years or so to have it make sense.

Edited August 11, 2021 by SkimaskMohawk

[MichaelCarmine]

 

 

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

Saw that too, I wonder if it was a mistake or are they changing the lore of Krieg?

Honestly the death korps are relatively newcomers in the grand scheme of things as Krieg only went rogue 433.m40. They could change the lore to have whatever drives their cult of sacrifice happen during the crusade or something.

 

@michaelcarmine it's not Krieg being colonized that started the death korps, it's the rebellion against the emperor and ensuing nuclear solution+atonement almost at the end of 40ks timeline that did it. Gotta rewind 10000 years or so to have it make sense.

 

I know, but that doesn't mean, that the planet tcould not have had a standing Army before that.

The rebellion ist just the reason why they now wear Gasmasks permanently and why they are almost purely vat-grown now, simply speaking. =]

[Marshal Loss]

If the watermark thing isn't a mistake, it could just be FW looking to push the Krieg models for use in 30k as a sort of generic IA template rather than being any indication of the lore getting comprehensively retconned.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

 

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

Saw that too, I wonder if it was a mistake or are they changing the lore of Krieg?

Honestly the death korps are relatively newcomers in the grand scheme of things as Krieg only went rogue 433.m40. They could change the lore to have whatever drives their cult of sacrifice happen during the crusade or something.

 

@michaelcarmine it's not Krieg being colonized that started the death korps, it's the rebellion against the emperor and ensuing nuclear solution+atonement almost at the end of 40ks timeline that did it. Gotta rewind 10000 years or so to have it make sense.

I know, but that doesn't mean, that the planet tcould not have had a standing Army before that.

The rebellion ist just the reason why they now wear Gasmasks permanently and why they are almost purely vat-grown now, simply speaking. =]

I think we're talking about two different things. Of course Krieg had an army, as it was one of their colonels that launched the nukes; I'm not saying the aesthetic can't or shouldn't be used without explanation since gear aesthetics is extremely easy to justify in 30k. What I'm saying that the "death korps" itself, with its unique mindset is created by an event near the end of the time line.

 

If it's marketed as death korps it needs a retcon, if it's just Krieg militia/soldier/whatever generic term it doesn't.

[LameBeard]

Yes I can see both possibilities. Some relative newbie looks at the highly detailed resin models, of which an army’s worth would cost a fortune, and thinks - oh, these must be for those Heresy players, they are our “premium” line after all. And in a way, they wouldn’t be far off - I think there would be a big overlap in the Venn diagram of Heresy and Kreig fans.

[MichaelCarmine]

 

 

 

 

Welcome, Death Korps, to the Horus Heresy

Saw that too, I wonder if it was a mistake or are they changing the lore of Krieg?

Honestly the death korps are relatively newcomers in the grand scheme of things as Krieg only went rogue 433.m40. They could change the lore to have whatever drives their cult of sacrifice happen during the crusade or something.

 

@michaelcarmine it's not Krieg being colonized that started the death korps, it's the rebellion against the emperor and ensuing nuclear solution+atonement almost at the end of 40ks timeline that did it. Gotta rewind 10000 years or so to have it make sense.

I know, but that doesn't mean, that the planet tcould not have had a standing Army before that.

The rebellion ist just the reason why they now wear Gasmasks permanently and why they are almost purely vat-grown now, simply speaking. =]

I think we're talking about two different things. Of course Krieg had an army, as it was one of their colonels that launched the nukes; I'm not saying the aesthetic can't or shouldn't be used without explanation since gear aesthetics is extremely easy to justify in 30k. What I'm saying that the "death korps" itself, with its unique mindset is created by an event near the end of the time line.

 

If it's marketed as death korps it needs a retcon, if it's just Krieg militia/soldier/whatever generic term it doesn't.

 

 

Yeah, i misunderstood you! ^^

 

 

Though they wouldn't necessarily need to "retcon" it, i think.

 

They could just add, that at the time of the Great Crusade, the World Krieg had Special army formations in adition to the regular regiments.

 

These "Death Korps" were Soldiers, specially trained and outfittet for the deployment on worlds with incredibly harsh environment and weather conditions.

 

 

At the end of the Rebellion and after nuking their world to hell, they applied the Name for all their Army Units, as they created, what they were trained to withstand.

 

 

Atleast, that would be my take on it. =]

[Noserenda]

Its good news for Krieg players, rumour being FW wont produce anything smaller than a superheavy for 40k at some point but this would keep the range alive even as suggested minis for Imperial army.

 

[Brofist]

If you've read the militia army list then you'll feel how much it was built around the Krieg and Vrax model range

[Noserenda]

Welll... I mean it has Gorgons in it :D 

[Hfran Morkai]

Not going to lie I am awfully tempted by Krieg for 30K.

 

I think my top pick would be plastic Vostroyans, I think they'd work as unaugmented Fenrisian infantry but I don't see that happening soon.

[Dark Legionnare]

Not going to lie I am awfully tempted by Krieg for 30K.

 

I think my top pick would be plastic Vostroyans, I think they'd work as unaugmented Fenrisian infantry but I don't see that happening soon.

I count myself lucky I already have a huge Krieg force as my first dream army project, but I definitely agree. Vostroyans would make for hella-good militia forces aesthetically.

Welll... I mean it has Gorgons in it

And, shockingly, the big S.O.B's are back on FW. I can barely believe it.  Might be able, and have to, finally get one.

If you've read the militia army list then you'll feel how much it was built around the Krieg and Vrax model range

I was just specking out a list the other day with my friend in regards to diversifying up our 30k games a bit to get him feeling less pigeon-holed against my luna wolves.  Feral Warriors and Chem-jackers seemed like "Krieg" militia army. Get in close, damn the morale, and kill 'em with shovels.

 

Shame about the tank sponsons though.

 

[Pacific81]

Oh i dunno, the way plastics can work these days i think it would be a lot more straightforward to do the mass variety of epic, you just run them out on mixed sprues of infantry and/or tanks, folks can buy multiples or swap around to get more specialised formations but given a lot of tanks in particular are just different turret loadouts they should be fairly simple to get on sprue. 

 

 

On the one hand I would hope that you are right! (And never say never - GW have been going through a lot of the other classic games after all). 

On the other hand there is already a prospering community with some great rulesets, there have never been more miniatures available (thanks to the likes of Vanguard and 3D miniatures). What could GW add to that? They might release some lovely new miniatures, which will get more people into miniature scale gaming. But, they could release a stinky new ruleset which will split the community in the way the new Necromunda ruleset did initially (not saying that was a stinky set of rules, but it had its problems and there are still deep discussions going on about ruleset or combination of rules should be used, 3 years later).

 

The dark, cynical side of me also says that why would they want to get customers paying say £30 for a Company of Land Raiders in Epic scale, when they are already prepared to pay 3 times that for a 28mm single tank and then buy eight of them? The whole 'gaming on a budget' thing should never be allowed to enter the equation!