State of the Union (Heresy)

[Loquille]

The Imperial Fists Praetors are up for pre order this week. And a random weapons pack, the Grav Guns return.

 

Though that doesn't look very much like Cataphractii armour to me

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/22/sunday-preview-warhammer-launches-alongside-gladiatorial-gameplay-and-fantastic-fiction/

Edited August 22, 2021 by Loquille

[Tyrannicide]

Can’t wait to get my hands on these. Best Terminator Praetor in my book.

[Loquille]

Looking forward to removing all the fist details on the Praetor for one of my Legions. 

[Noserenda]

 

Idk, I've played a lot of games with multiple squads of havocs and mine never got instantly vaporized. Maybe because I got them the extremely complementary bunker and had sufficient threat saturation, but they always lasted until the later stages of the game at least against opponents with a lot of quality shooting units.

 

And sure you can argue, but I'll boil down the operating differences to "can get artificer armour, or jump packs or stronger melee weapons" templars for example only get artificer over a veteran squad; theres no operating differences because they are stuck with swords. You use the special melee units as better melee units with maybe more damage output due to their rules and weapons; havocs are used as better hss due to their rules and better wargear access.

 

Also not too sure what you mean by the rules writes missing the assault elements of the iron warriors. You don't take morale from shooting so you can always push up the board, hammer of Olympia lets you rapid fire and charge breach style, and Perturabo gives the army furious charge in the opponent deployment. It's the epitome of their fluff of grinding up the no man's land, breaching walls and doing some brutal melee combat.

 

Feels like you're missing a lot of the nuance.

 

Wow, i too am aware of basic tactics, like most people ;)  I guess you have easier opponents or luckier dice? Either way, power to you buddy.

 

I mean you are exactly proving my point to me in the middle here, those units operate differently, have different capacities and work differently on the tabletop. Those units could even operate alongside Veterans or whatever without one of those units being redundant. Havocs dont, they are just marginally better heavy support squads. They operate in exactly the same way.

 

Again you are proving my point here at the end, storming breaches and the like is a major theme of the Legion and its covered by an alright morale rule which is exactly as useful for hanging around near board edges in a gunline; a rule in a RoW  which is nice for tactical marines but almost entirely useless for actual assault troops and a Primarch rule which is again alright, but forces you to run the Primarch to get it. Thats a major Legion theme. A badly handled one. No nuance required. 

 

Well, unless you dont understand what Nuance actually means? Feels like maybe you dont? 

[Slips]

Ditch the condescension when discussing things with other frater here or we'll have some problems.

[Marshal Vespasian]

So thats me getting ten tartaros to go with my new praetor.

Adore both of those minis. The PA praetor will fit fantasticly with my templar brethren.

[Brofist]

Finally, grav guns, what we've all been waiting for

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

Idk, I've played a lot of games with multiple squads of havocs and mine never got instantly vaporized. Maybe because I got them the extremely complementary bunker and had sufficient threat saturation, but they always lasted until the later stages of the game at least against opponents with a lot of quality shooting units.

 

And sure you can argue, but I'll boil down the operating differences to "can get artificer armour, or jump packs or stronger melee weapons" templars for example only get artificer over a veteran squad; theres no operating differences because they are stuck with swords. You use the special melee units as better melee units with maybe more damage output due to their rules and weapons; havocs are used as better hss due to their rules and better wargear access.

 

Also not too sure what you mean by the rules writes missing the assault elements of the iron warriors. You don't take morale from shooting so you can always push up the board, hammer of Olympia lets you rapid fire and charge breach style, and Perturabo gives the army furious charge in the opponent deployment. It's the epitome of their fluff of grinding up the no man's land, breaching walls and doing some brutal melee combat.

 

Feels like you're missing a lot of the nuance.

 

Wow, i too am aware of basic tactics, like most people ;) I guess you have easier opponents or luckier dice? Either way, power to you buddy.

 

I mean you are exactly proving my point to me in the middle here, those units operate differently, have different capacities and work differently on the tabletop. Those units could even operate alongside Veterans or whatever without one of those units being redundant. Havocs dont, they are just marginally better heavy support squads. They operate in exactly the same way.

 

Again you are proving my point here at the end, storming breaches and the like is a major theme of the Legion and its covered by an alright morale rule which is exactly as useful for hanging around near board edges in a gunline; a rule in a RoW which is nice for tactical marines but almost entirely useless for actual assault troops and a Primarch rule which is again alright, but forces you to run the Primarch to get it. Thats a major Legion theme. A badly handled one. No nuance required.

 

Well, unless you dont understand what Nuance actually means? Feels like maybe you dont?

Maybe I have easier opponents, kind of hard to compare with no basis of comparison isn't it? Also kind of comes down to tables and how sparse they are, something I find most of the 30k community is guilty of using from what I see on Facebook, Instagram and here. If the biggest threats can get zapped turn 1 then the havocs can get cleaned up turn 2.

 

Idk how differently dark shroud or rampagers work from assault marines at the end of the day. They fight power armour and lighter targets. Same with templars vs veterans. Same with headhunters vs seekers. Same with immortals vs breachers. Same with lernaeans vs terminators. They don't operate differently, they operate the same with a superior end result. The same as havocs. And I'd call them better than a marginal upgrade; you pay 20-30 points more for a dramatic increase in efficacy by 78%/120% for autocannons at rhinos out and in cover, or 50%/100% for las at the rhinos. Against their highest armour tier you go from 1.1 to 2.5 with autocannons and 0.56 to 1.2 with las, both more than 100% better. Kind of a hot take, but I'll bet that those melee units with equivalent weapons to their assault/veteran/terminator counter parts don't have as good a return for the points.

 

And by nuance I mean that the iron warriors whole strategic outlook and preference is crafted by their primarch. Perturabo forced the legion into bloody grind after bloody grind because he thought it was his duty and that built up their frustration with the unappealing orders and lack of recognition, which resulted in the brutal melee massacres once they could finally finish the campaign. Perturabo's complex and strategic tendencies are the root cause for the melee, so imo it's of course fitting to have the rite named after him and his presence drive the melee benefits. I'll also disagree on pert being "alright" when he's one of the best duelists, opens up strategic options and is able to tactically support units compared to other primarchs who get...one of those aspects. Also hammer of Olympia definitely helps all sorts of troop units, the kind of meat and potatoes blocks that definitely get thrown into the guns, but especially breachers, the kind of exact unit used for breaching lol.

[Excessus]

Looking forward to removing all the fist details on the Praetor for one of my Legions.

Haha, same here!

[Corswain]

Those are spectacular models but you guys must be crazy to wanna scrape all that iconography off.

[Loquille]

We have a Legion Dispatch with a couple more Praetors. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/23/the-ultramarines-legion-praetors-are-ideal-for-avenging-calth/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=Horus+Heresy+-+legion+dispatch+Ultramarine+Praetors&fbclid=IwAR0tU5PmwPfw-4PyDNYTHJBy7yZ60o2dkkmuHi2D3KtXsJPqpfQ15pY0zzU

 

 

 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Good to see more legions get their Praetors, one of my friends is starting UM, so this is very good.

 

If we're planning on seeing big stuff in plastic later, then I think spending the time on characters and praetors makes sense to have something going on in the meantime.

[ShadowCore67]

Have to say those Ultramarine praetors are the first ones I'm not a huge fan of. Too much wing/eagle iconography. Makes them look too 40k.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I like the bare heads

Too busy for my taste though

Edited August 23, 2021 by Marshal Vespasian

[Taliesin]

We have a Legion Dispatch with a couple more Praetors. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/23/the-ultramarines-legion-praetors-are-ideal-for-avenging-calth/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=Horus+Heresy+-+legion+dispatch+Ultramarine+Praetors&fbclid=IwAR0tU5PmwPfw-4PyDNYTHJBy7yZ60o2dkkmuHi2D3KtXsJPqpfQ15pY0zzU

 

 

 

 

 

Not what I was hoping to read. I do hope they will do an announcement soon.

[bushman101]

The UM praets look really good. Their armor has enough decoration to make the Blood Angel's look plain.

 

Was really hoping to see the alleged box set.....

[Hfran Morkai]

I don't think the UM Praetors are particularly my cup of tea but grateful to see more Heresy releases.

 

I can't decide if I like that Combi-Melta or not.

[StrangerOrders]

Its interesting that the UM got Praetors, given their fairly lacking model and HQ roster atm.

 

It makes me think they will keep doing HQs for a while.

 

So, given that we know how things look for SoH that leaves:

 

-Emperor's Children

-Iron Warriors

-Space Wolves (weirdly JUST have the Cataphractii)

-Iron Hands

-World Eaters

-Deathguard

-Thousand Sons (same weirdness as the Wolves)

-Salamanders

-Ravenguard

 

So we are about halfway with the Praetors.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm guessing we're going to see some Shadow Crusade stuff at some point, given Argel Tal, the WB Praetors, the UM Contemptor and now the UM Praetors release over the past ~2 years or so. Will really raise some eyebrows if we start seeing some World Eaters stuff as well.

[StrangerOrders]

I'm guessing we're going to see some Shadow Crusade stuff at some point, given Argel Tal, the WB Praetors, the UM Contemptor and now the UM Praetors release over the past ~2 years or so. Will really raise some eyebrows if we start seeing some World Eaters stuff as well.

I mean... there are worse things than UM and WB Leviathans...

 

UM range is also still missing all of its named Characters and most of its units.

Edited August 23, 2021 by StrangerOrders

[sarabando]

i think we will see the raven guard just before or right after the box reveal to capatalise on the mk6 hype imo

[Cris R]

The Imperial Fists Praetors are up for pre order this week. And a random weapons pack, the Grav Guns return.

 

Though that doesn't look very much like Cataphractii armour to me

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/22/sunday-preview-warhammer-launches-alongside-gladiatorial-gameplay-and-fantastic-fiction/

It’s Tartaros armor.

 

Edit: Slips noted it's a 3++ below, so removing reference to saying the shield gives a Terminator a 4++.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Cris R

[Corswain]

It looks like Cataphractii to me but there are definitely tartaros elements. I'm starting to think that that is a deliberate design plan by FW so players can run them as either. Saves them making one of each and I certainly wouldn't argue with anyone who wanted to use them as either option.

[Slips]

 

The Imperial Fists Praetors are up for pre order this week. And a random weapons pack, the Grav Guns return.

 

Though that doesn't look very much like Cataphractii armour to me

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/22/sunday-preview-warhammer-launches-alongside-gladiatorial-gameplay-and-fantastic-fiction/

It’s Tartaros armor. Makes sense if they’re rocking that shield to get the 4++ invul, something that would get lost on a Cataphractii HQ that already has this save.

 

3++ cuz its a non-9th stormshield.

It looks like Cataphractii to me but there are definitely tartaros elements. I'm starting to think that that is a deliberate design plan by FW so players can run them as either. Saves them making one of each and I certainly wouldn't argue with anyone who wanted to use them as either option.

The only Cataphractii-like element I see is the top of the knee. Otherwise, its all Tartaros.

[Marshal Loss]

Hope we see the EC Praetors soon.

 

-Space Wolves (weirdly JUST have the Cataphractii)
-Thousand Sons (same weirdness as the Wolves)

 

Nothing weird about them, it's just that both were designed and released before FW decided to do Praetors for every legion. The TS Praetor was a prototype for the Scarab Occult brought back by community request after being scrapped, and the SW Praetor was designed alongside the Varagyr.
 

I'm guessing we're going to see some Shadow Crusade stuff at some point, given Argel Tal, the WB Praetors, the UM Contemptor and now the UM Praetors release over the past ~2 years or so. Will really raise some eyebrows if we start seeing some World Eaters stuff as well.

 

FW basically had an entire Shadow Crusade book already sketched out and designed c. 5-6 years ago (it was meant to be book 6, before they decided to change tact and release basic rules for the WS/BA/DA). I'd definitely expect it to be one of the first events they covered as part of a new series of supplements.