Clockworkchris Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Can I ask about havocs? Do they get 3w? Do they change significantly?and most importantly Can they still take 4x same weapon or are they locked to box content? Exactly the same as now but 2w. Dhar'Neth, Khornestar, Cheex and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Another leak for you fine folks, to celebrate the website being back up. Extra units chaos is getting: Hq squad of cultists Mutant cultists (clockworkchris's opinion:these will be like tzaangors and poxwalkers) These are the new units. so in line with the already rumoured releases.Were new posses in the sope of the rumors? I really thing the current box is too goofy. I just recently got me some FW Gal Vorbak because of that. Are there any rumors if marks are going to do something more them just keywords? No models is not the same as new units. The cultist units are the only new units. Old units are def getting new models. Will chaos marines have a "brood brothers" type rule giving access to guard units/vehicles in a limited capacity? That seems like it would be a terrific way to bring traitor guard style lists to life. Tipsy Techpriest 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Another leak for you fine folks, to celebrate the website being back up. Extra units chaos is getting: Hq squad of cultists Mutant cultists (clockworkchris's opinion:these will be like tzaangors and poxwalkers) These are the new units. Sounds very cool. I like the diversity of the forces of chaos in the background and also taking advantage of more ways to play the army and use more of my models. I hope they're fairly customizable units, with some sort of specialization for each of the gods/unaligned. Vesalius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Can I ask about havocs? Do they get 3w? Do they change significantly?and most importantly Can they still take 4x same weapon or are they locked to box content? Exactly the same as now but 2w. That's a relief if true. Now the elephant in the room: what about Terminators? Specifically, do they have the same weapon loadout as now, or are they locked to what comes in the kit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesalius Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 So I wonder if this means the renegade guard from the rumor are out? Also if the possessed humans are just the mutant cultists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Speculation: Berserkers always count as in being "assault doctrine". I think the wulfen rules would be perfect for zerkers... even just a cut/paste job. Seems perfect. Great volume of attacks, fast, automatic fight on death bypasses all the fight last nonsense. You can't copy and paste the storm shield. Slave to Darkness 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Speculation: Berserkers always count as in being "assault doctrine".I think the wulfen rules would be perfect for zerkers... even just a cut/paste job. Seems perfect. Great volume of attacks, fast, automatic fight on death bypasses all the fight last nonsense. You can't copy and paste the storm shield. Demonic blessing X points, just did. Don't even need to dev a bit on the sprue. Also are there any new weapons for existing infantry? New havocs gave us the chain cannon for instance. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockworkchris Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Ok so here is a bunch of info I managed to come by from secure sources: CSM doctrine: exact same thing as SM, except replace +1AP with exploding 6s (unmodified hits) Icons: vengeance +1 CA wrath +1ap melee flame +1ap shooting excess +1 to hit melee despair 6s to hit = autowound All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems Legion traits: NL -2LD & -1CA @ 9'' +1 to advance & +1 to charges When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound IW Ignores cover Reduce ap1/2 by 1 Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound WB Charges/HI = reroll hits 5+++ vs MW When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) BL ignore CA +1 to hit when charge or shoot closest unit rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) EC (4chain leak, not from my sources) in the book have a way of consistently hitting on 2s (even with thunder hammers) WE Not in the codex Datasheet info: Chosen 3w can use TH Mutilators no longer in the book Warp talon 2w lost cancel overwatch gained no fallback 5a (these are total with claws) Raptors still have the -1LD aura +2a Obliterators can shoot units that are in engagement range with them (like wraithguard) in melee they have powerfists without the -1 to hit 3 different shooting profiles Havocs exactly the same as right now but 2w Stratagems something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves) NL deepstrike strat for jump packs, DS turn 1 NL vox scream disables AURAS Other: IW ectoplasma forgefiend can hit on 2+ and does flat 4 damage New cultist unit HQ New mutant culstists RolandTHTG, Shovellovin, Khornestar and 11 others 14 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 There are some 40mm rank-and-file infantry models have 2W. Are there 32mm models have 3W before? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Ok so here is a bunch of info I managed to come by from secure sources: CSM doctrine: exact same thing as SM, except replace +1AP with exploding 6s (unmodified hits) Icons: vengeance +1 CA wrath +1ap melee flame +1ap shooting excess +1 to hit melee despair 6s to hit = autowound All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems Legion traits: NL -2LD & -1CA @ 9'' +1 to advance & +1 to charges When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound IW Ignores cover Reduce ap1/2 by 1 Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound WB Charges/HI = reroll hits 5+++ vs MW When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) BL ignore CA +1 to hit when charge or shoot closest unit rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) EC (4chain leak, not from my sources) in the book have a way of consistently hitting on 2s (even with thunder hammers) WE Not in the codex Datasheet info: Chosen 3w can use TH Mutilators no longer in the book Warp talon 2w lost cancel overwatch gained no fallback 5a (these are total with claws) Raptors still have the -1LD aura +2a Obliterators can shoot units that are in engagement range with them (like wraithguard) in melee they have powerfists without the -1 to hit 3 different shooting profiles Havocs exactly the same as right now but 2w Stratagems something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves) NL deepstrike strat for jump packs, DS turn 1 NL vox scream disables AURAS Other: IW ectoplasma forgefiend can hit on 2+ and does flat 4 damage New cultist unit HQ New mutant culstists Quick question... how is this new codex going to handle cult troops? Would BL or WB still be able to field rubrics/plague marines? If so, do they have the same datasheet as in the DG/TS codicies just without those army's special sauce? Vesalius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks for typing that up for us, Clockworkchris. Could you share the 4chan leak as well/send it to me so I can compile relevant rumours in the OP? Some thoughts, obviously on the assumption the above is accurate: I had expected there to be a legion supplement/campaign supplement that we'd have to buy if we wanted the full suite of rules, so if all these traits/relics/strats are in the actual codex and I can play my legion with a single book, I'll be extremely pleased. Kudos to GW if so. Very surprised to see Word Bearers without a morale aspect to their trait. What's written above sounds great though, obviously a tremendous improvement on what we've currently got (not that that's an achievement ) Good variability between legions. I hope renegades also receive some love. Obliterators having different shooting profiles to choose from rather than having to roll for it would be fantastic. I've missed being able to choose between different guns to suit different targets. Condolences to anybody that ever used Mutilators Hopefully we get to see some models later this week at the LVO preview. BadgersinHills and TrawlingCleaner 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmiteThemAll Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Sorry for my newbness but what is CA? As in black legion ignore CA? Night Lords - 1CA? Can't wait for this codex, love modelling my chaos so much but I've totally lost interest with the correct codex being so lame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Also, it just occurred to me that the interaction with the Black Legion trait/Icon of Vengeance is a little odd. Sorry for my newbness but what is CA? As in black legion ignore CA? Night Lords - 1CA? Combat Attrition - it's the test you take if you fail a Morale test to see how many models run away/die. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiju Soze Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Also, it just occurred to me that the interaction with the Black Legion trait/Icon of Vengeance is a little odd. Yeah, it'd be weird to see BL armies with no icons of vengeance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Oh man, these chnages are fantastic. 6 WLT, 8 Relics and 8 Strats per legion nearly made me shoot water out of my nose. Are these for sure in the Codex? Or are they likely to be stripped out and put into a Campaign supplement? Was there any news on Alpha Legion and the Renegades? On another note, I'm glad I held off making some Mutilators from Centurions, more Oblits for me! Marshal Loss, Khornestar, Maschinenpriester and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgersinHills Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks Marshal Loss for compiling the rumours and thanks ClockworkChris for the information! Marshal Loss 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApulianAbaddon Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 God, if these are confirmed I am crying for one year. Particularly happy for my Black Legion, will eventually add more and more Marines Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I’ve been building up my WB to prepare for the coming codex, and if those rules are accurate I’m super hyped! They’re fun to play with the current awful rule, so we’ll see if they get to keep their killer strats. I wonder what possessed will be like. Maybe just identical to DG? Akylas 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague _Lord Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Please tell me possessed also get 3 wounds... I need more info if it's just cultist or actual traitor guard. Unfortunately these new traits sound like they wont effect daemon engines... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) Hmm looking at the DG possessed I don’t think a direct port will work, and they “should” get an extra wound. Was thinking about the cultist hq and I bet they’ll have a restriction like must have a heretic astartes for each cultist hq. Something like that? . Unfortunately these new traits sound like they wont effect daemon engines... What about the stuff above makes you say that? Like just not useful or can’t use at all? Edited January 24, 2022 by Khornestar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5787971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I was hoping mutilators would be updated, but the current models have never once tempted me, so I'm not so sad that they're gone. Khornestar and quasistellar 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5788058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague _Lord Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Hmm looking at the DG possessed I don’t think a direct port will work, and they “should” get an extra wound. Was thinking about the cultist hq and I bet they’ll have a restriction like must have a heretic astartes for each cultist hq. Something like that? . Unfortunately these new traits sound like they wont effect daemon engines... What about the stuff above makes you say that? Like just not useful or can’t use at all? I mean DG possessed are rated as near-trash tier competitively, they only saw play in Terminus Est lists, which just got killed by the latest CA. I think with 3 wounds a piece they would be a decent pick and would love to love a unit of them. As for the traits I think it would make daemon engines very strony and maybe too strong? I could for instance see them getting only one of the traits, for example Iron Warriors - Reduce ap 1/2 by 1, while the bonus to wound would count for heretic astartes. I just can't shake the notion that a lot of folks over at James still think CSM need to be punished for the 3,5 codex... But I would love to be wrong mind you... I could also see them giving out a balance sheet at time of release that would upgrade DG vechicles aswell... Special Officer Doofy 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5788086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Word Bearers Warp Talons are the winningest winners. 5 attacks (6s cause extra hits), reroll hits, reroll wounds (6s cause mortal wounds). Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5788125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovellovin Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) snip Thank you for sharing all this info! Some very interesting stuff in there. edit - Curious if the Night Lords' traits will stack. If so, morale could be an issue for opposing armies. That would be interesting and fit with the Night Lords' lore. Edited January 24, 2022 by Shovellovin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5788126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinespider Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Cultist HQ + more cultist options seems like the wildest part of this, tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/11/#findComment-5788128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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