What to expect from 9e CSM

[Ithiel]

Any changes to Daemon princes? Hopefully they buff the talons back to AP-2, unlink the AP-1 talons on DG and TS Princes.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

 

Obliterators

•have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)

•ignore modifier for heavy weapons

•armed with powerfists without -1 to hit

•Has 3 shooting profiles

Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1

Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2

Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

Lets hope they stay core or at least get bs+2

Probably they core , and they can benefit from doctrines, so 1 turn extra hit on 6

Centurians don't have the core keyword. Doesn't mean obliterators won't, but they the closest counterparts to each other.

[Khornestar]

 

 

 

Obliterators

•have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)

•ignore modifier for heavy weapons

•armed with powerfists without -1 to hit

•Has 3 shooting profiles

Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1

Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2

Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

Lets hope they stay core or at least get bs+2

Probably they core , and they can benefit from doctrines, so 1 turn extra hit on 6

Centurians don't have the core keyword. Doesn't mean obliterators won't, but they the closest counterparts to each other.

 

 

This was my point of comparison, as well. I really doubt they'll have CORE.

[Agrest_IW]

But SM have 2x more units !  & Centurions are old (firstborn), Eradicators are new and Core , 

[Khornestar]

Whether or not I doubt it, it's still just a guess at this point. I'd prefer to be wrong!

[Hathor42]

I don't see oblits getting bs2+

[Clockworkchris]

Time for an update post (cue carry on my wayward son)

 

CSM doctrine:

• Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
• Destruction ''Doctrine'': Heavy/grenade
• Massacre ''Doctrine'': Rapid fire/assault
• Slaughter ''Doctrine'': pistol/melee

Marks:

• Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

''Daemonic Gifts'': (purchaseable upgrade)

• Khorne: +1S on the charge
• Nurgle: -1 to wound
• Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save
• Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

 

 

• All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)

 

Legion rule:

 

NL

• -2LD & -1CA @ 9''
• +1 to advance & +1 to charges
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• 6" aura that cancels obsec

Relics

• Jump pack: moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+ 

Stratagems

• Vox scream: cancels AURAS
• Jump pack DS turn 1

IW

• Ignores cover
• Reduce ap1/2 by 1
• Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

• Some way to give +1 damage to certain units

 

WB

• Charges/HI = reroll hits
• 5+++ vs MW
• Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)

 

BL

• ignore CA
• +1  to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
• Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)

 

Alpha legion

• -1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
• Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
• Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

Emperor's children

• Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
• Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
• Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)

Red corsairs

• Charge if they advanced
• Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
• wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile

• +1 str/move
• Fight after death in melee
• wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

''Build a warband'' renegade traits

• +4" to range other than grenade and relic
• After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game

WE

• Not in the codex

 

 

Datasheet info:

 

Disco lord

• not much change

Cypher

• In the codex

 

Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

• Are no longuer in the codex
• Act like harlequins in CWE army,  or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
• Always Elites
• can benefit from army rules
• Cannot gain a legion trait

Fallen

• No in the codex

Chosen

• 3w
• Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
• No news on WS BS or A
• can use TH (unconfirmed)
• Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of  traits from the list of build a warband traits

Terminators

• Loadout options similar to DG blightlords
• Only thing I was told is that we could no longer have an all LC loadout as a hint.

Greater possessed

• No in the codex

Possessed

• S5 T5 3W 5A
• unit of 10 (do not know if this is total or max)
• Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

• no longer in the book

 

Warp talon

• lost cancel overwatch
• gained no fallback
• 5a (these are total with claws)

 

Raptors

• still have the -1LD aura
• +2a

Venomcrawler

• is now FA
• is a bit faster (my guess 12" instead of 10")
• now gives +1 to psychic tests
• claws and mechatentrites are now just 1 weapon (again my guess this means the claw profile may be getting +2a)
• ws3 bs3

Obliterators

• have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
• ignore modifier for heavy weapons
• armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
• Has 3 shooting profiles:
• Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
• Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
• Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4

 

Havocs

• exactly the same as right now but 2w

 

Stratagems

• something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves)

Other:

• New cultist unit HQ
• New mutant culstists
• Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits (build a warband)

Edited January 30, 2022 by Clockworkchris

[Plaguecaster]

Wow as a DG player I am extremely salty about what CSM are getting opposed to our so called "resilience" lol

[MDops]

Have we heard anything more on the human cultist in the book?

[Lord Abaia]

This seems pretty cool. I'm pretty excited about this new book. Strangely enough after years of my clamoring for legion rules, I actually think I'm going to sell my Night Lords off and start fresh with a DIY renegade warband.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

Marks:

• Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

• vengeance +1 CA
• wrath +1ap melee
• flame +1ap shooting
• excess +1 to hit melee
• despair 6s to hit = autowound

''Daemonic Gifts'': (purchaseable upgrade)

• Khorne: +1S on the charge
• Nurgle: -1 damage
• Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save
• Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase

I have a question... how many icons/marks/gifts can you take in an army?  For example, orks can only have 1 unit with the trukk boyz upgrade.  Does any such restriction exist for daemonic gifts?  Im hoping not but something tells me this will be restricted.

[Hathor42]

I wonder with all the world eater stuff removed if the lord of skulls will be taken out too.

[Toldavf]

4 damage is a really nice number, 3/4 failed saves kill pretty much every vehicle as well as one shotting nurgle termies. As for obliterators getting core, well broad sides have it (though I fully expect them to loose it like iron striders did, ofc the hammerhead will have to drop out of meta first so dont expect this to come quickly) so its not out o the question, how long they keep core on the other hand would be anybody's guess. 

[Khornestar]

I wonder with all the world eater stuff removed if the lord of skulls will be taken out too.

 

I don't think so, it hasn't necessarily been a World Eaters unit exclusively at any point, AFAIK.

[Slave to Darkness]

This seems pretty cool. I'm pretty excited about this new book. Strangely enough after years of my clamoring for legion rules, I actually think I'm going to sell my Night Lords off and start fresh with a DIY renegade warband.

I ended up switching to renegades instead of legions, when DG became their own thing I lost most of the units I had in my army so decided to switch, more freedom imho. 

 

I am still tempted at having another pop at Word Bearers again, I did have tons of fun with my old army. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

This seems pretty cool. I'm pretty excited about this new book. Strangely enough after years of my clamoring for legion rules, I actually think I'm going to sell my Night Lords off and start fresh with a DIY renegade warband.

I ended up switching to renegades instead of legions, when DG became their own thing I lost most of the units I had in my army so decided to switch, more freedom imho. 

 

I am still tempted at having another pop at Word Bearers again, I did have tons of fun with my old army. 

 

I have had a blast with Word Bearers, even though their rules weren't that great last edition. Especially if you haven't started, the mainstreaming of the Gal Vorbak red paint has made just really awesome looking wine/burgandy Word Bearers so much easier.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

This seems pretty cool. I'm pretty excited about this new book. Strangely enough after years of my clamoring for legion rules, I actually think I'm going to sell my Night Lords off and start fresh with a DIY renegade warband.

I ended up switching to renegades instead of legions, when DG became their own thing I lost most of the units I had in my army so decided to switch, more freedom imho. 

 

I am still tempted at having another pop at Word Bearers again, I did have tons of fun with my old army. 

 

I have had a blast with Word Bearers, even though their rules weren't that great last edition. Especially if you haven't started, the mainstreaming of the Gal Vorbak red paint has made just really awesome looking wine/burgandy Word Bearers so much easier.

 

Not tried that paint yet, I may pick one up and try a few test minis. :tu: 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I have some painted if you want to see them. One of the terminators I've done with it:

 

[Slave to Darkness]

That is a nice shade of red, might use that on some of my Khorne stuff as well. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think it's my favorite of their red paints, it was a good day when they brought those Forge World paints into the main Citadel paint range.

[Clockworkchris]

Just posted a correction. I made an error transcribing the nurgle daemonic gift. Misread it .

 

Nurgle daemonic gift.

 

-1 to wound instead of -1 damage.

[Khornestar]

Just posted a correction. I made an error transcribing the nurgle daemonic gift. Misread it .

 

Nurgle daemonic gift.

 

-1 to wound instead of -1 damage.

 

Haha aww too bad! Thank you for posting the correction. 

 

Still a solid upgrade, though.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Khornestar

[Iron Inspirit]

Just posted a correction. I made an error transcribing the nurgle daemonic gift. Misread it .

 

Nurgle daemonic gift.

 

-1 to wound instead of -1 damage.

Ngl, -1 to wound can be WAY more impactful than -1 damage. Its a cheap Transhuman, or better if we can put it on T5. 

[Marshal Loss]

It's also really cool thematically just because it's applicable in virtually every context and isn't dependent on the damage of the weapon being fired at you. That's one of my big issues with the current DR when playing DG. Goes without saying that it's potentially extremely powerful too, pending cost, etc. Very cool.

[Lagrath]

Thanks for all the rumors. It gives some small hope that maybe CSM will be able to keep up with all the crazy codexes that have come out from Drukhari onwards.