hall of honor

[War of the Eagle]

Fought 50pl of BT vs 25pl nids and 25pl Tsons as part of crusaide. None of my BT units had gained any battle honors till after this fight so a pretty normal fight besides the 2v1.

 

I killed all enemy force and I only lost a 3 man Eradicator squad, a Judicar, and my vangaurd Vet squad.

 

Still had 2 assault intercessor squads, chaplain on bike, emperor's champion, and hel blaster squad left alive.

 

I took the anti psyker vow and got the 3" move but forgot about the rest of the vow for the rest of the game unfortunatly.

 

I enjoyed the fight but other than the chaplain and litanys, it didnt feel to diferant from playing normal aggressive SM.

[Medjugorje]

I enjoyed the fight but other than the chaplain and litanys, it didnt feel to diferant from playing normal aggressive SM.

 

thats my main problem with this supp. 

[BayOkuz]

 

I enjoyed the fight but other than the chaplain and litanys, it didnt feel to diferant from playing normal aggressive SM.

 

thats my main problem with this supp. 

 

 

To be fair, previously the thing was same again except devoit push and some other strats. From that perspective, everything can be look that way.

 

If you give an agressive person a hammer, everything looks like a nail. 

 

Do not want to offend anyone but, I played 7 games with this sup and to me, It feels fun and fluffy. 

 

I think the general (not talking about Medj, but in general) sadness about the supplement comes from cannot managing expectations.

 

People waited for being a white scar/bloodangel mix. We were never be that.

 

We are durable fighters. Not fast attackers. (saying that but, did not know 3rd or 4th edition rules. talking based on the lore and fluff)

 

So it makes me sad that when people say supplement is bad, Its actually about managing expectations wrong (my 2 cent and my idea. no offence please)

[War of the Eagle]

Dont get me wrong, my force is a crusade force so during that battle had none of the relic bearers and cool tidbits that make the army unique. I mostly said it felt like a typical melee SM army because so far it is, and I dont have allot to comment on until I get the cool stuff. Im definatly still excited for the suplemt and cant wait to make my army unique. Edited November 2, 2021 by War of the Eagle

[Medjugorje]

 

 

I enjoyed the fight but other than the chaplain and litanys, it didnt feel to diferant from playing normal aggressive SM.

 

thats my main problem with this supp. 

 

 

 

People waited for being a white scar/bloodangel mix. We were never be that.

 

 

 

 

In 3rd edition we had the same speed like all other marines. And we had THE CURRENT Blood Angels CT as a vow. !!!

I play BT since they came out and everyone who want to tell me that (we never used to be an aggressive army) i lying or dont want to see the reality.

 

the common BT meme was an angry marine. Everything about BT was about ATTACK. Even the the last Codex BT 6th edition FAQ given you with AAC the bonus only if you had charged. The index said it, the storries ( Helsreach... the salamanders part). Crusade means attack - not deffend!. 

 

We used to be the best close combat warriors. Maybe not fast like WS or Berserkers like BA but skilled with the sword. Now Ultramarines and IH have better strats for their normal units then BT have.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

BT never had anywhere near the speed of BA in third edition.

[KnightofSigismund]

I really feel like the new book is a solid, and actually a strong book. It’s not admech or drukhari but who would want that anyway. I’m happy it’s how it is because if it was stronger the entire marine hating internet hordes would complain until it got the big marine nerf bat.

[Medjugorje]

BT never had anywhere near the speed of BA in third edition.

Rhinorush... We were the strongest in this time. We had Right. Zeal which made us even stronger and faster. Blood Angels "jump pack/fly THING" was introduced by Matt Ward in 5th edition codex (or maybe in the weak White dwarf version before it). 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Medjugorje

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You weren’t faster or as fast because you know - wait for it - Overcharged Engines…
 

And then when you couldn’t assault out of moving Rhinos BA has jump units… also certain relic that could let you consolidate a very long distance into another enemy unit.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Righteous Zeal wasn't exactly reliable in third either, it being morale dependent.

 

I never took that vow anyway, I always took Accept, because hitting on 3s irrespective of initiative was great, especially when other marines did it on 4s.

The army wasn't faster than other marines back then. It was more durable as we could take the 'ablative wounds' in crusader squads, and they would then hit harder with more attacks, hitting more often with Accept.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah the 3+ to hit was awesome as heck.

[Tiger9gamer]

alright, anyone have any stories of glory?

[Medjugorje]

Righteous Zeal wasn't exactly reliable in third either, it being morale dependent.

 

I never took that vow anyway, I always took Accept, because hitting on 3s irrespective of initiative was great, especially when other marines did it on 4s.

The army wasn't faster than other marines back then. It was more durable as we could take the 'ablative wounds' in crusader squads, and they would then hit harder with more attacks, hitting more often with Accept.

no. With Chaplains you always could choose to pass the morale check.

 

But we discuss a very different topic here. my problem is not that we are not the fastest chapter. We used to be always as fast as we should be in each edition and environment. And nowadays if would have been easy to give us that too without being a secound WS chapter. If GW want to sell their new stuff or want us in another direction. Why didnt they changed advance + charge just for special units or chases ( like advance and charge only for disembarked units or even just for Crusadersquads and the new Sword Brothers).

 

And a far bigger problem for me is that we have problems to get fast into close combat... but when we reach it.. we are only strong with character buffs. Would be awesome to field a mechanized army into battle like 2x BGV and 3x other squads in impulsors. But without no buffs they are too weak - and the vows should have been this "buffs". We had the BA CT in the past, we used to take AAC because hiting on 3+ (which was not common in 3rd edition and extrem powerful) and in 5th edition even better when prefered enemy rule said you can reroll EVERY SINGLE hitroll in combat. That showed how strong a normal Initiate is in combat - just better as other marines. But now Ultramarines and IH even have better buffs for single units which are not "babysitted" by characters. 

 

Which is the next problem... How should i ever take a emperors champion when my army is absolute trash without any good buff character ( which I have to say --> luckily we have)

Edited November 3, 2021 by Medjugorje

[BayOkuz]

 

 

 

I enjoyed the fight but other than the chaplain and litanys, it didnt feel to diferant from playing normal aggressive SM.

 

 

thats my main problem with this supp.

 

 

People waited for being a white scar/bloodangel mix. We were never be that.

 

 

In 3rd edition we had the same speed like all other marines. And we had THE CURRENT Blood Angels CT as a vow. !!!

I play BT since they came out and everyone who want to tell me that (we never used to be an aggressive army) i lying or dont want to see the reality.

 

the common BT meme was an angry marine. Everything about BT was about ATTACK. Even the the last Codex BT 6th edition FAQ given you with AAC the bonus only if you had charged. The index said it, the storries ( Helsreach... the salamanders part). Crusade means attack - not deffend!. 

 

We used to be the best close combat warriors. Maybe not fast like WS or Berserkers like BA but skilled with the sword. Now Ultramarines and IH have better strats for their normal units then BT have.

You have great valid points brother, and The thing is I agree that w/o buff and character babysitting, UM is better that us in many ways

 

And Honestly I dont understand why they removed advance and charge which is essential. Could be given as relics etc.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No one who plays competitively is going to build an Ultramarine melee army.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I'm pretty sure someone's confusing 3rd ed and 4th ed righteous Zeal rules...

[BayOkuz]

Well whatever happens and how derivatively we are far from the expected outcome, I do still love the new supp.

 

It covers my expectations as I love Black Templars as fluff first, and while I cannot judge people based on my expectations as every person has different POW and expectation; I am very happy from the outcome myself.

 

For example without an Emperor's Champion in my list, I cannot play any game. Because :fluff: reasons.

[Plague _Lord]

Dont get me wrong, my force is a crusade force so during that battle had none of the relic bearers and cool tidbits that make the army unique. I mostly said it felt like a typical melee SM army because so far it is, and I dont have allot to comment on until I get the cool stuff. Im definatly still excited for the suplemt and cant wait to make my army unique.

 

I think you forget that BT are just marines with a twist. TBH in the lore all they have going for them vs other chapters is not caring about marine quotas and extreme xenophobia. They should have subtle differences in army composition (emperors' champion, better chaplains, sword brethren, crusader squad that just scream "we have more marines than we are allowed to") but they don't really have any genetic boons/flaws that should boost them into a much different playstyle.

 

They should be a typical melee/hybrid army with some flavour here and there and I think they actually got that with all the nice crusader relics, better chaplains and multimeltas on their transports.

[Medjugorje]

 

Dont get me wrong, my force is a crusade force so during that battle had none of the relic bearers and cool tidbits that make the army unique. I mostly said it felt like a typical melee SM army because so far it is, and I dont have allot to comment on until I get the cool stuff. Im definatly still excited for the suplemt and cant wait to make my army unique.

 

I think you forget that BT are just marines with a twist. TBH in the lore all they have going for them vs other chapters is not caring about marine quotas and extreme xenophobia. They should have subtle differences in army composition (emperors' champion, better chaplains, sword brethren, crusader squad that just scream "we have more marines than we are allowed to") but they don't really have any genetic boons/flaws that should boost them into a much different playstyle.

 

They should be a typical melee/hybrid army with some flavour here and there and I think they actually got that with all the nice crusader relics, better chaplains and multimeltas on their transports.

 

the army composition should not matter. The playstyle should be very different because of different traditions and warfare.

[Medjugorje]

Well whatever happens and how derivatively we are far from the expected outcome, I do still love the new supp.

 

It covers my expectations as I love Black Templars as fluff first, and while I cannot judge people based on my expectations as every person has different POW and expectation; I am very happy from the outcome myself.

 

For example without an Emperor's Champion in my list, I cannot play any game. Because :fluff: reasons.

THe emperors champion is one of my most loved models back then when I started. But he is that bad that i dont want to play him because his rules are absolute trash. GW was doing so good in other books (and they did it with priests/chaplains in this book.)

[Medjugorje]

No one who plays competitively is going to build an Ultramarine melee army.

 

then you should watch the podcast from art of war about Ultramarines from John Lennon. 

[Plague _Lord]

 

 

Dont get me wrong, my force is a crusade force so during that battle had none of the relic bearers and cool tidbits that make the army unique. I mostly said it felt like a typical melee SM army because so far it is, and I dont have allot to comment on until I get the cool stuff. Im definatly still excited for the suplemt and cant wait to make my army unique.

 

I think you forget that BT are just marines with a twist. TBH in the lore all they have going for them vs other chapters is not caring about marine quotas and extreme xenophobia. They should have subtle differences in army composition (emperors' champion, better chaplains, sword brethren, crusader squad that just scream "we have more marines than we are allowed to") but they don't really have any genetic boons/flaws that should boost them into a much different playstyle.

 

They should be a typical melee/hybrid army with some flavour here and there and I think they actually got that with all the nice crusader relics, better chaplains and multimeltas on their transports.

 

the army composition should not matter. The playstyle should be very different because of different traditions and warfare.

 

 

That's the thing though - BT's differences are mainly in army composition so I don't know where you are getting the "very" different playstyle vibes. They are pretty much angry, xenophobic marines that hate psykers and like close combat. Sword brethren are just veteran marines ala deathwing and crusader squads are just regular marines mixed with new guys. BT have allways been a balanced army with a slight inclination to close combat, their style of warfare isn't  that much different than say space wolves (bar the mutants).

[KnightofSigismund]

I don’t believe the emperors champion is trash at all, I think he’s actually pretty cool stat wise. He’s different than other marine character hunters.

 

He’s not supposed to go out and solo whole units on his own no problem. I think he fills his niche.

Edited November 3, 2021 by KnightofSigismund

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

No one who plays competitively is going to build an Ultramarine melee army.

 

then you should watch the podcast from art of war about Ultramarines from John Lennon. 

 

 

it’s not a melee army.

[Medjugorje]

he said that normally his list shows like a shooty army. And they are shooting very well. But if the opponent comes close then its more like a melee army. The secret of his army is that he force the opponent to come close and then push it hard in close combat. And well... thats exactly how our lists now working. Instead of attack the opponent and drive towards the opponent with Impulsors and threaten him with other melee units.... we shoot and waiting until the opponent comes to us. 

 

 

Thats not the BT way. BT are crusading and attack. 

 

@KnightsofSigismund - he fills a niche which other units can do better (units - not characters). 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Medjugorje