Medjugorje Posted November 18, 2021 Author Share Posted November 18, 2021 GW treat sisters 9th codex as "well balanced"(indeed it is really well written) and don't put any buff/nerf to it. I don't think BT would have much better tournament performance than sisters. in terms of statistics we have at the moment. But we will see it in a few weeks how well our codex does it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 GW treat sisters 9th codex as "well balanced"(indeed it is really well written) and don't put any buff/nerf to it. I don't think BT would have much better tournament performance than sisters. in terms of statistics we have at the moment. But we will see it in a few weeks how well our codex does it. Ya but remember that sisters managed to secure their stats in the middle of full power drukhari and ad mech and Orks. Thir main counter of plane spam and barrage has been nerfed whole sale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 The playing field is levelling out post balance sheet and the tourney results are already reflecting that. Really, I'm just waiting for the next big Astra Militarum and Chaos Wins post-patch! :D Tiger9gamer and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 18, 2021 Author Share Posted November 18, 2021 GW treat sisters 9th codex as "well balanced"(indeed it is really well written) and don't put any buff/nerf to it. I don't think BT would have much better tournament performance than sisters.in terms of statistics we have at the moment. But we will see it in a few weeks how well our codex does it. Ya but remember that sisters managed to secure their stats in the middle of full power drukhari and ad mech and Orks. Thir main counter of plane spam and barrage has been nerfed whole sale. and now we are sistsers nightmare BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Indeed ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 GW treat sisters 9th codex as "well balanced"(indeed it is really well written) and don't put any buff/nerf to it. I don't think BT would have much better tournament performance than sisters.in terms of statistics we have at the moment. But we will see it in a few weeks how well our codex does it.Ya but remember that sisters managed to secure their stats in the middle of full power drukhari and ad mech and Orks. Thir main counter of plane spam and barrage has been nerfed whole sale. and now we are sistsers nightmare I...don't really follow. What makes templars a nightmare for them, when marines weren't an issue in the first place. The 5++? Bring able to brawl in the middle a bit with them? I'm genuinely curious. Tiger9gamer and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 19, 2021 Author Share Posted November 19, 2021 what are the most powerful weapons which every sisters list brings on tournaments? Domions - mortal wounds (we have 5+++) Mulitmelta squads - (we have minitranshuman and 5++) zephirim which gain obsec and hit+wound rerolls - makes 7 dead marines on average with 5++ but without any FnP. Remaining marines kill them normally. With judiciar and devout push we make them fight last. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 what are the most powerful weapons which every sisters list brings on tournaments? Domions - mortal wounds (we have 5+++) Mulitmelta squads - (we have minitranshuman and 5++) zephirim which gain obsec and hit+wound rerolls - makes 7 dead marines on average with 5++ but without any FnP. Remaining marines kill them normally. With judiciar and devout push we make them fight last. You really didn't answer my question. Saying "they reduce 33% of the expected output" then I'm sorry, but psychic fortress has been a viable option for a long time and has not delivered on the promise of 5++ redemptors vs sisters. The judiciar is also a bit silly saying that an extra 3" for a single target fight last that can be pre measured around is going to be a deal breaker. Oh, and because push also happens at the start of the phase, the player who's turn it is decides sequence. So if you're being charged, you won't even get to use it. Multimeltas are going to shoot the dreads first and foremost... Like "my ancillary units will have a 5++ where they couldn't before, and I might get an extra 3" to tag fight last against sloppy play in the second round of combat". Certified. Nightmare. To play against. It also ignores that they bring a huge set of options to tournament and still place. Their tech is very diverse and can easily circumvent the defensive boost of BT. Like the 3 units of storm bolter dominions in the third place list last weekend. Or mortifiers. Or ebon shroud seraphim. John Lennon stopped playing sisters because of barrage and flyer spam. It what was able to break his mid field castle and allow celestine to be gunned down. Marines don't have anything like that. They can't trade a unit strong enough to kill Celestine in melee, just for her to come back and the army kill your unit for free. What will actually make templars be a "nightmare"? Tokugawa 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 5+ isv can't really protect against multi-melta spam. They have miracle dices, every single hit go through could cause serious damage. When against high number, low dmg weapons such like assault hellblaster, we could say "5+ isv reduced about 1/3 damage suffered". But sisters meltas have very different mechanics. Edited November 19, 2021 by Tokugawa Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Devout push with the Judicar does work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Devout push with the Judicar does work. In your turn. Not in your opponent's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Devout push with the Judicar does work.In your turn. Not in your opponent's.Push can be used on opponent's fight phase, but can't enter engagement range from outside now. Use the 1cp to buy oathkeeper for judiciar is more operable. Khornestar and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Devout push with the Judicar does work.In your turn. Not in your opponent's.Push can be used on opponent's fight phase, but can't enter engagement range from outside now. Use the 1cp to buy oathkeeper for judiciar is more operable. What I'm saying is that regardless of the reliability of threading that range band, because both push and tempormortis are used at the start of the phase it's up to the player with turn priority to decide which happens first. So your opponent will say "use the ability first and then you can push, too bad". Tiger9gamer and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 It’s simultanseous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 It’s simultanseous. That's exactly the opposite of what the sequencing rule says. It's a basic one, so players of all skill levels should be aware of it. Sword Brother Adelard 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Okay my mistake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5765949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 you are the controlling player. He can choose when both player have abilities in the start of the fight phase who can activate their stratagems first. But If you have 2 abilities then you can decide which one you can do first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5766066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 you are the controlling player. He can choose when both player have abilities in the start of the fight phase who can activate their stratagems first. But If you have 2 abilities then you can decide which one you can do first. No; read the rules for sequencing. They say nothing about the balance of rules ownership, just that if there are rules that need to be resolved simultaneously, then the player with turn priority decides the sequence. It's 100%, crystal clear, and I can't believe I'm having this debate with an avowed tournament player. Push on judiciar is bad. It's bad because the range is unforgiving and requires perfect placement and opponent ignorance, and it's bad because it doesn't work in the most important phase. It does not hard counter sisters of battle; the only nightmare it's created is trying to make people read one of the first rules in the book. Sword Brother Adelard 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5766091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 This faq helps a bit - it can be complicated to figure out in a big scrum… https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/OQ1TeUZ6hxw5jp1e.pdf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5766114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 I played that always like that. But the situation came just one time in a friendly. Most times the opponents were aware of this and simply didnt charge. This faq helps a bit - it can be complicated to figure out in a big scrum… https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/OQ1TeUZ6hxw5jp1e.pdf this not on debate. Its just the debate if your opponent can force you to choose one unit to have "fight last" and then able to use devout push. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5766170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 aside from this discussion. I was on a RTT yesterday with 2 friends ( all 3 played Templars^^). And one week before we went on another RTT ( one friend played the BT ). I will post down all 4 lists and give a few data on the matchups and results. All 2 tournaments were pre FAQed but with new BT supplement of course. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5766172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 I dont know where else I should put this. But this is a friends channel and he normally does german BR. He have started doing some in english ---> and of course he is a big BT Fan. Marshal Mittens 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5814243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Poor audio quality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371984-hall-of-honor/page/6/#findComment-5814246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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