The Armouring of a Space Marine

[Dosjetka]

=][= Since the news is now somewhat old and the conversation is ongoing, the thread has been moved to the Space Marines subforum.

 

Please remember to keep things civil, even in situations of disagreement. Thank you. =][=

[Bryan Blaire]

Other points were good because we do know the ships of the Imperium are ridiculously huge and could hold any number of arming chambers, plus there are abbreviated armoring rituals described elsewhere. i.e. only had time for short prayers, hope my armor forgives me.

 

The quoted bit though, maybe not so much, and demonstrates the danger of trying to "win" arguments on the interwebs.

 

We cannot justify everything "because Space Marines exist." Every universe has rules, even 40k. The question is "what is practical for a Space Marine?"

 

When you accept that this version of Space Marines can exist, you’ve already accepted the space magic, which means that practically anything can exist (and in 40K, does).

 

A 4:42 length ritual isn’t even close to impractical in the 40K universe, given everything else you have to accept being practical for the universe to hold together.  I stand by the point I made.

[phandaal]

 

Other points were good because we do know the ships of the Imperium are ridiculously huge and could hold any number of arming chambers, plus there are abbreviated armoring rituals described elsewhere. i.e. only had time for short prayers, hope my armor forgives me.

 

The quoted bit though, maybe not so much, and demonstrates the danger of trying to "win" arguments on the interwebs.

 

We cannot justify everything "because Space Marines exist." Every universe has rules, even 40k. The question is "what is practical for a Space Marine?"

 

When you accept that this version of Space Marines can exist, you’ve already accepted the space magic, which means that practically anything can exist (and in 40K, does).

 

A 4:42 length ritual isn’t even close to impractical in the 40K universe, given everything else you have to accept being practical for the universe to hold together.  I stand by the point I made.

 

 

I agree, but telling people they have auto-lost any argument that may be contrary to what you think "because Space Marines" is a reddit-level maneuver. Case in point: I agreed with everything else you said and still got this response.

 

We can probably all do better than that, and frame things more productively as "what is impractical for someone in the real world is easily practical for a Space Marine."

[Marshal Rohr]

I think if GW did a swathe of day in the life animations or fly throughs of each of the factions of a setting. Maybe like 120seconds each other could be an absolutely awesome intro for new players. Like the Tau art of the big battle suit bay. Gangers haggling over corpse starch noodles. Krieg loading up into landing craft like the Vraks animation.

 

That would be killer

[Triszin]

 

 

While this conversion should likely be moved to the marine sub forum.

 

I could see 2 versions of this. The video represents the parade variant. While there is likely a faster armoring version for tactical purposes

What tactical purpose would be necessary for a Marine to be out of their armor?

 

If there’s tactical activity going on, a Marine should already be armored and be staying that way, short of repairing combat damage to an armor component.

 

Yes, this ritual definitely seems like something that occurs when the Marines are activated and moving to a combat zone only - once they are in a combat zone, any removal of armor is probably very limited in scope, and accomplished with less (but likely still not completely lacking) ritual and fewer servitors.

I'm more thinking. A sudden attack on a marine ship/monastery. And the Marines need to suddenly get armored.

 

I could see a rapid armouring ritual that takes a second.

[Bryan Blaire]

I'm more thinking. A sudden attack on a marine ship/monastery. And the Marines need to suddenly get armored.

I could see a rapid armouring ritual that takes a second.

I think it’s safe to consider that in any situation where the Marines are, a contingent of them will be armored already and would form the initial response force to a sudden incursion, while the remaining Marines move to get armored up.

 

I’m sure that they have a way to get armored that is quicker as well, but it likely “angers the machine spirit” (which probably means the armor’s effectiveness is degraded in some way), etc.  I don’t doubt that they have other means to gear up, but the ritual armoring we saw in the video is probably the “preferred way” to get it done that they stick to unless it absolutely can’t be done, but yes, it is probably cast aside in ultimate need.

 

I think that people overestimate the situations of that need though - after all, war for a Marine is like the One Ring to Sauron seeking it - “his every thought is turned to it” so it’s highly unlikely that they are ever so far gone from the need to armor up that they couldn’t complete this ritual.

 

————————

 

Phandaal, it’s nice you feel that way.  I don’t know what a “reddit-level maneuver” actually means, because while I know Reddit is “a thing”, I don’t go there other than a limited BattleTech thread thing where people display painted Mechs.  I have held this particular view since before I became a member here, so a new person coming in and telling me we should play nice or “be better” isn’t going to get me to change it.  It’s not like anyone hangs on my every word or agrees with me in any way, as my posting history here will show.  :lol:  If you really want to take up my personal views or posting habits more, it’s probably best to take it to PM.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

It's just funny/sad that GW has recent lore that contradicts how swiftly this process occurs.

 

Indomitus was THE tie-in novel to the Ninth Edition launch. Yet it contains a scene where a Captain from the same chapter shown here - wearing the same mark of armor - is caught mid-armoring and takes a "patience-straining eleven minutes" before completing the process with the left pauldron being attached. So not only does the process - even at top speed - seem to take far longer than is shown here, but the final touch is different, with the pauldron being attached rather than the "crown" of the helm.

 

And again, that's the official tie-in novel for the launch of this current edition. Pretty clear there was no "canon" arming ritual that both of these materials were drawing from.

[phandaal]

It's just funny/sad that GW has recent lore that contradicts how swiftly this process occurs.

 

Indomitus was THE tie-in novel to the Ninth Edition launch. Yet it contains a scene where a Captain from the same chapter shown here - wearing the same mark of armor - is caught mid-armoring and takes a "patience-straining eleven minutes" before completing the process with the left pauldron being attached. So not only does the process - even at top speed - seem to take far longer than is shown here, but the final touch is different, with the pauldron being attached rather than the "crown" of the helm.

 

And again, that's the official tie-in novel for the launch of this current edition. Pretty clear there was no "canon" arming ritual that both of these materials were drawing from.

Best way to look at it is that the clip is "canon" for the one particular situation and individual Marine shown. It would be a stretch to think all Chapters do it this way all the time.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

It's just funny/sad that GW has recent lore that contradicts how swiftly this process occurs.

 

Indomitus was THE tie-in novel to the Ninth Edition launch. Yet it contains a scene where a Captain from the same chapter shown here - wearing the same mark of armor - is caught mid-armoring and takes a "patience-straining eleven minutes" before completing the process with the left pauldron being attached. So not only does the process - even at top speed - seem to take far longer than is shown here, but the final touch is different, with the pauldron being attached rather than the "crown" of the helm.

 

And again, that's the official tie-in novel for the launch of this current edition. Pretty clear there was no "canon" arming ritual that both of these materials were drawing from.

Best way to look at it is that the clip is "canon" for the one particular situation and individual Marine shown. It would be a stretch to think all Chapters do it this way all the time.

 

 

Like I said though, it was the same chapter. And it wasn't just that it was done differently in Indomitus - it was that it COULDN'T have been done anywhere near as quickly as is done in the animation.

[WARMASTER_]

 

 

 

 

Other points were good because we do know the ships of the Imperium are ridiculously huge and could hold any number of arming chambers, plus there are abbreviated armoring rituals described elsewhere. i.e. only had time for short prayers, hope my armor forgives me.

 

The quoted bit though, maybe not so much, and demonstrates the danger of trying to "win" arguments on the interwebs.

 

We cannot justify everything "because Space Marines exist." Every universe has rules, even 40k. The question is "what is practical for a Space Marine?"

 

When you accept that this version of Space Marines can exist, you’ve already accepted the space magic, which means that practically anything can exist (and in 40K, does).

 

A 4:42 length ritual isn’t even close to impractical in the 40K universe, given everything else you have to accept being practical for the universe to hold together. I stand by the point I made.

I agree, but telling people they have auto-lost any argument that may be contrary to what you think "because Space Marines" is a reddit-level maneuver. Case in point: I agreed with everything else you said and still got this response.

 

We can probably all do better than that, and frame things more productively as "what is impractical for someone in the real world is easily practical for a Space Marine."

I feel like what he’s saying is nothing in 40K is practical

 

If you think about it you’ve got an 8ft tall practically immortal genetically engineered super solider sailing to war with 100 or so of his brothers through literally hell with a little bubble of real space to protect then from getting eaten my Demons. Oh and the ships also 5 ish or more KM’s long and can destroy worlds, and it’s mostly crewed my a slave caste of half man half cyborg wretch’s

 

The point is an armouring ceremony that takes a while whilst they’re travelling through space to a war isn’t really that crazy

Edited March 12, 2022 by BladeOfVengeance

[Bryan Blaire]

I think people might be taking the line “It firmly counts as canon – be under no illusion, this is how the Emperor’s finest get ready for battle” a bit too much in the tone of “this is the only way it can happen.”  The “it firmly counts as canon - be under no illusion” seems more a commentary on the other videos/proposed fan methods that it happens - the Raptor isn’t canon, Lord Inquisitor isn’t, StarCraft 2 isn’t, Iron Man isn’t, or what we’ve individually dreamed up isn’t, etc.  No one can say this isn’t how it works - this is canon (for however much that actually has weight to people) - this is the base in universe for how Marines get armored up, per “word of the creator.”

 

There are very likely differences in how they get armored up, but overall, this is the method - it uses servitors, it uses ceremony and ritual, etc.  Does it always take the 4:42 of time we see in the video, or does it sometimes take more?  Can it take less?  I’m sure in my mind that there is difference there, between Marines, between Chapters, and between groups/ranks/specialties within the Chapter.

 

Now, this is my interpretation of the statement - maybe GW Corp does mean exactly what was written - “this is how” and they mean it as a retroactive continuity adjustment to their universe for everything written before - we’ll know that based on how tightly future works cleave to what was shown in the video (although I doubt they’ll give us time stamps).  I just don’t think that’s exactly what they meant.

 

Personally, I still prefer the loose canon view for 40K anyway, not some kind of strict officialness, but maybe they are caving to fan wants and are moving that way.

[Helias_Tancred]

I thought it was pretty damned good in terms of animation and special effects. I hope it's for something much bigger like a movie, or new series. 

 

Okay so here's what I took away from it .... if that is say set on a Strike Cruiser, umm does that mean they have 100 of those rooms one for each space marine? From the novels it always seems the marine personal chambers are very small, like what you get on a cruise line lol. If thats in the Fortress of Hera, then they have hundreds of those? Or do they hot swap like they do bunks on a submarine? lmao. 

 

Thats the REAL question about this animation ;)

[spessmarine]

Not understanding the remarks about it being a slow process.

Five minutes is nothing, I can easily take way longer than that to get ready just for the dangerous mission of visiting family.

 

Meanwhile, the marine is getting strapped into a void-sealed suit for possibly months on end with a lot more finicky bits than my belt and buttons.

 

Relevant. From nasa.gov

 

Putting on a spacesuit takes 45 minutes, including the time it takes to put on the special undergarments that help keep astronauts cool. After putting on the spacesuit, to adapt to the lower pressure maintained in the suit, the astronaut must spend a little more than an hour breathing pure oxygen before going outside the pressurized module.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by spessmarine

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Out of curiosity would anyone watch a video where it takes a lore accurate amount of time to install the armor. Cause I don't have the time, or quite frankly attention span to watch something that involves a "patience-straining eleven minutes". 

 

I thought it was pretty damned good in terms of animation and special effects. I hope it's for something much bigger like a movie, or new series. 

 

Okay so here's what I took away from it .... if that is say set on a Strike Cruiser, umm does that mean they have 100 of those rooms one for each space marine? From the novels it always seems the marine personal chambers are very small, like what you get on a cruise line lol. If thats in the Fortress of Hera, then they have hundreds of those? Or do they hot swap like they do bunks on a submarine? lmao. 

 

Thats the REAL question about this animation

 

I think the armory stations are separate from their individual rooms.

 

That said it's a little frustrating that this video is probably the highest quality one they've done. I think it may give people some unreasonable expectations about Warhammer+, granted GW and really corporations in general are great at over promises and underdelivering so it shouldn't surprise me. 

[Captain Idaho]

Personally, taking the clip for what it is, I thought it was great. It looked good and I can imagine it happening throughout the Chapter. Remember they don't all armour themselves at the same time and each Company has it's own areas within a fortress monastery.

 

When Marines go to war they will wear the armour for months at a time, so it doesn't even seem impractical.

 

I do have a single problem with it and that's one of scale. This Marine is Primaris right, as shouldn't he have been bigger? That dude was about a Firstborn in size compared to the Serfs.

 

****

 

It's a personal aesthetic preference but I wish GW went down a slightly more gothic point with Imperial armies on the table. Marines and indeed Custodes just look like armoured warriors but in reality where are the serfs and attendants!

 

I'd love to see units with arming serfs attached for x points. They can small bonuses or maybe their inclusion is what makes a unit Objective Secured (to represent the supplies being maintained for the Marines logistically etc). Whatever rules GW fancies really.

 

Even add a rule that the Serfs can't be selected as casualties until they are equal to or greater in number to the Marines in the unit.

 

I'd to represent things like this with actual models on the table.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Machine God]

Oh good thing GW, Not!

 

The Black Carapace is subcutaneous (under the skin). It is not bolted on.

[tychobi]

Nice art but the actual animation of it was pretty bad. A solid 4 out of 10. So at least they are improving? For the love of the Emperor focus on making minis GW!

[Captain Idaho]

Oh good thing GW, Not!

 

The Black Carapace is subcutaneous (under the skin). It is not bolted on.

Yeah I did pick up on that. I can't imagine it's different for Primaris but who knows.

[Montuhotep]

If it takes that much fuss and splut to ready a single Marine for field duties, it's no wonder they're traditionally deployed in small groups....

[phandaal]

Nice art but the actual animation of it was pretty bad. A solid 4 out of 10. So at least they are improving? For the love of the Emperor focus on making minis GW!

It did look nice in terms of the actual quality of the images. That walking animation though...

 

Reminded me of the alien sightings from Scary Movie 3.

[WARMASTER_]

Oh good thing GW, Not!

 

The Black Carapace is subcutaneous (under the skin). It is not bolted on.

Errrrrrm??? Not sure what you think the black carapace is but the black suit they put on him is a under-flex sub suit, also described as muscle fibre bundle layer, and it’s absolutely not meant to be the Black carapace

 

that’s definitely under his skin where it should be you can literally see it when he’s topless, all those circular nodes poking out of his skin from everywhere and all those scars from implantation,

 

they even show you needles going into it through the video to show the connection

 

I’m sorry but I know GW bashing is somehow the done thing on the internet but they’re not going to mess that up are they

Edited March 17, 2022 by BladeOfVengeance

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Subcutenous literally means under the skin. :rolleyes: Edited March 14, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Lord_Ikka]

Just to clear things up, from the Details You Might Have Missed community post:

 

"This is our first glimpse of the Space Marine, preparing in a candlelit chamber. The scarring and mechanical ports are the outward signs of the black carapace – the final gene-seed implant applied to any initiate, an organic film transplanted beneath the skin. This layer of neural tissue allows a Space Marine’s power armour to interface directly with his nervous, circulatory, and other biological systems."

 

Then- 

 

"The skinsuit interfaces directly with the black carapace, tightening around the Space Marine’s body to form a vacuum seal. Along with his power armour and gene-seed organ implants, this will allow the Space Marine to survive atmospheric conditions on any world he’s deployed to."

[Beta galactosidase]

 

I do have a single problem with it and that's one of scale. This Marine is Primaris right, as shouldn't he have been bigger? That dude was about a Firstborn in size compared to the Serfs.

I am really glad that I checked to see what could be going on in this thread. : D : D

 

 

 

 

umm does that mean they have 100 of those rooms one for each space marine? From the novels it always seems the marine personal chambers are very small

Sure obviously there’s no suggestion at all that this was his personal chamber.

 

But what I’m really interested in is marines having personal cells, and why they don’t have general dormitories. of course they’re monastic orders and many monastic orders had isolated cells. It’s where we get the term cell in biology it’s significant for monks.

 

they’re tightly integrated units, they’re all about brotherhood. I think most chapters would bunk dormitory style, five, ten or a hundred to a room. The single occupancy cells seems isolating and pretty soft.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I can imagine SM live the good life when they aren’t fighting.