The Armouring of a Space Marine

[phandaal]

 

 

The video would definitely have a different impact for a normie or a newbie.

 

I love sci-fi and power armor. I hadn't heard of 'The Raptor' until this thread (big ocean when it comes to fan animation). 'The Raptor' reminded me of the Starcraft 2 cinematic. The GW video did not. Why? Aesthetics. Power armor has certain engineering limitations and we see it addressed in the same way over and over (SC2, 'The Raptor', Halo, GI Joe movie, etc). The differences are the trappings. For example SC2 has that 1980s, everything is well-used, maybe made in a garage or mass produced in a Detroit factory long past its glory days. Halo has the bright, clean, but somewhat ominous like a surgery ampitheater look. 40k? High mass is in session.

 

Lets not forget Fallout power armor which is vastly different then any of those other ones

 

 

Think we are all forgetting the greatest power armor of all time - The Centurions.

[Cactus]

I haven't seen the Starcraft 2 cinematic and I hadn't heard of the Raptor animation before this discussion. I also don't hang out on Twitter or Instagram so the only hype I encountered was from Warcom and you jaded old grognards. ;)

 

I enjoyed it, especially the cherry picker servitors, the cherubs and the obvious weight of that chestplate. Nice that it isn't paywalled behind Warhammer+ too.

 

I've been playing a lot of Fallout 4 recently and that power armour is more like a vehicle that you climb into than a suit that you wear.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Cactus

[Malakithe]

I've been playing a lot of Fallout 4 recently and that power armour is more like a vehicle that you climb into than a suit that you wear.

Yeah thats true but it still is power assisted armor. I think that style of armor where you climb into it makes more sense then most other power armors where they have to screw the parts together or weld the person inside. Space marine armor is probably all mag-locked together which makes ease of removing it better then most.

 

 

 

 

The video would definitely have a different impact for a normie or a newbie.

 

I love sci-fi and power armor. I hadn't heard of 'The Raptor' until this thread (big ocean when it comes to fan animation). 'The Raptor' reminded me of the Starcraft 2 cinematic. The GW video did not. Why? Aesthetics. Power armor has certain engineering limitations and we see it addressed in the same way over and over (SC2, 'The Raptor', Halo, GI Joe movie, etc). The differences are the trappings. For example SC2 has that 1980s, everything is well-used, maybe made in a garage or mass produced in a Detroit factory long past its glory days. Halo has the bright, clean, but somewhat ominous like a surgery ampitheater look. 40k? High mass is in session.

 

Lets not forget Fallout power armor which is vastly different then any of those other ones

 

 

Think we are all forgetting the greatest power armor of all time - The Centurions.

 

Is that even power armor at that point?

[phandaal]

 

 

 

 

Lets not forget Fallout power armor which is vastly different then any of those other ones

 

 

 

 

Think we are all forgetting the greatest power armor of all time - The Centurions.

 

Is that even power armor at that point?

 

 

Of course.

 

Think of their unequipped state as their version of the Black Carapace.

 

When the rest of their armor gets beamed down from the Sky Vault so the Centurions can fight Doc Terror and his Doom Drones, that is their "suit up scene."

[Cactus]

One thing to remember about astartes power armour is that there isn't really a human being inside. They can be bolted into that thing for months at a time and it's fine. So what if it takes hours to prepare for war? It likely takes days even for a rapid reaction force like the Adeptus Astartes to reach the front and the battle could last until Sanguinalia. In that context I find the modular helmet less daft to enable field repairs and hot-swapping broken parts. Why does nobody gripe about the fact that there are seams up the arms etc anyway?

 

Having now watched the other vids over lunch I feel that the one thing GW's video has that the others lack is GOTHIC! Starcraft was just robot arms and an almost total focus on the armour. The Raptors as a chapter lean into a modern military aesthetic which leans away from some of what I most enjoy in 40k but the fan animation captured their mood very well. And of course the ships are huge; when each marine has a suite of rooms the size of a sportball pitch just to get ready in the scale of structures teally clicks.

 

I keep forgetting centurions exist until they're mentioned on B&C. It's like a recurring nightmare!

Edited March 11, 2022 by Cactus

[jaxom]

 

I've been playing a lot of Fallout 4 recently and that power armour is more like a vehicle that you climb into than a suit that you wear.

Yeah thats true but it still is power assisted armor. I think that style of armor where you climb into it makes more sense then most other power armors where they have to screw the parts together or weld the person inside. Space marine armor is probably all mag-locked together which makes ease of removing it better then most.

 

Fallout 4 switched things up because of game play decisions (wanting to feel like a walking tank, making the fuel a valuable resource, etc). The earlier games have arming rigs and an undersuit much more similar to Halo and Astartes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets not forget Fallout power armor which is vastly different then any of those other ones

 

 

 

 

Think we are all forgetting the greatest power armor of all time - The Centurions.

 

Is that even power armor at that point?

 

 

Of course.

 

Think of their unequipped state as their version of the Black Carapace.

 

When the rest of their armor gets beamed down from the Sky Vault so the Centurions can fight Doc Terror and his Doom Drones, that is their "suit up scene."

 

 

Oh, snap! I had thought you meant Astartes Centurions, but no! You're talking about one of the best cartoons ever!

[Jukkiz]

Funny how in deathwatch rulebook, taking of armor takes LEAST 5minutes since proper rites and chants must be admistered.

Yet putting it on takes less?  Ye, i´m nitpicking

[Magos Takatus]

 

 

 

The video would definitely have a different impact for a normie or a newbie.

 

I love sci-fi and power armor. I hadn't heard of 'The Raptor' until this thread (big ocean when it comes to fan animation). 'The Raptor' reminded me of the Starcraft 2 cinematic. The GW video did not. Why? Aesthetics. Power armor has certain engineering limitations and we see it addressed in the same way over and over (SC2, 'The Raptor', Halo, GI Joe movie, etc). The differences are the trappings. For example SC2 has that 1980s, everything is well-used, maybe made in a garage or mass produced in a Detroit factory long past its glory days. Halo has the bright, clean, but somewhat ominous like a surgery ampitheater look. 40k? High mass is in session.

 

Lets not forget Fallout power armor which is vastly different then any of those other ones

 

 

Think we are all forgetting the greatest power armor of all time - The Centurions.

 

POWERRR EX-TREME! :p

 

Personally I thought the serfs, servitors, cherubs and assorted hangers-on did enough to cement this as suitably 40k to distinguish this from the Starcraft 2 efforts. I also thought the helmet being in so many parts was unnecessary but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[Marshal Rohr]

The helmet being so many parts is like the least silly thing about it. It’s a computer, optics, radio, audio, and rebreather in an armored case. Of course it comes apart. How the hell would they replace stuff that gets broken or becomes disconnected?

[phandaal]

The helmet being so many parts is like the least silly thing about it. It’s a computer, optics, radio, audio, and rebreather in an armored case. Of course it comes apart. How the hell would they replace stuff that gets broken or becomes disconnected?

 

Whenever we read about Space Marines getting suited up they end up getting handed their helmet and plunking it on themselves.

 

 As for fixing it: they would take it apart, fix it, and put it back together again like any other piece of equipment.

 

Feels like the animators got a little carried away showing their cool bits and bobs and wanted to draw out the helmet part a little bit longer.

[Domhnall]

Just remembered, the multi-part helmet isn't the first time that's been done. Check out the old Space Crusade advert from 1990 (I know!) where the helmet was a flippy uppy helmet 

 

https://youtu.be/OP3vnhU2IEI

 

So, who's going to be the first person to Diorama that bad boy? 

 

 

Ah, The Centurions, more nostalgia goodness!

[rookie40K]

I personally think it’s the first time the armor is put on or after it has been cleaned and refurbished. Same with multi part helmet. It’s like taking a gun apart to clean it. Typically you just unholster the weapon, but it can be taken apart to be cleaned in separate pieces.

[WARMASTER_]

We’ve also seen helmets like that on marines for years!! Not only is it something we’ve seen on Primaris before but it’s been in the forge world range since what 2012??

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20150305173008/http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/tankcom3.jpg

[Doghouse]

The helmet is based on the lieutenant model, I think that was where they first established the concept so it's not really anything new to be concerned about.

[Captain Idaho]

=][=

 

It's totally legitimate to like something and tell folk why you like something. It's also just as legitimate to dislike something and tell folk that's how you feel. The main thing is it's within the scope of the topic.

 

Things to avoid - circular arguments. This is difficult sometimes and we all fall foul of getting too involved, but most of the time we can feel an argument going round in circles. When we get to that point, it's definitely time to duck out.

 

Another key thing to avoid - disparaging comments to each other regarding their opinions. Your opinion isn't so correct that you get to do that on this forum. If you don't agree and the other person hasn't broken any forum rules then that's just the real world. Folk won't agree with everything, it's no big deal really.

 

=][=

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

The helmet is based on the lieutenant model, I think that was where they first established the concept so it's not really anything new to be concerned about.

 

The Reiver half-helms preceded the 500th Store Lieutenant, but of course those were in Phobos armor (before we even knew it was called that), while the Lieutenant and the Smurf in the arming video are both in Tacticus.

[spessmarine]

re-watched it, I liked it better the second time around

oozes warhammer, realized the helmet top piece descending down is supposed to mimic bestowing a crown or say an angel's halo

they definitely remembered what themes to ham up I gotta say

[Dried]

I remember an old Voxcast (2018 maybe) where Jes Goodwin was explaining the concept of this multipart helmet (and it wasn't yet shown on any Primaris mini at the time).

[techsoldaten]

Overall, enjoyed the video. My nitpicks:

 

- It would be hard to do this for 1,000 members of a chapter. Either this is a once-off ritual or Marines never remove their armor.

 

- The ceremonial aspects seemed a little contrived. Would have expected more books / scrolls / rituals / etc, less lugging around pieces.

 

- Were are the grenades / combat knife / belt / other equipment? Is this Marine now bound for a visit to the Chamber of Combat Accessories for the rest of his load out?

[Doghouse]

Overall, enjoyed the video. My nitpicks:

 

- It would be hard to do this for 1,000 members of a chapter. Either this is a once-off ritual or Marines never remove their armor.

 

 

Thing is though is that this is 40k.

 

The idea of even an entire company being simultaneously armoured in this way isn't really that far fetched within a setting where we have the likes of entire worlds dedicated to book keeping or graveyards or prayer.

[WARMASTER_]

Overall, enjoyed the video. My nitpicks:

 

- It would be hard to do this for 1,000 members of a chapter. Either this is a once-off ritual or Marines never remove their armor.

 

- The ceremonial aspects seemed a little contrived. Would have expected more books / scrolls / rituals / etc, less lugging around pieces.

 

- Were are the grenades / combat knife / belt / other equipment? Is this Marine now bound for a visit to the Chamber of Combat Accessories for the rest of his load out?

This is 40K so practicality isn’t high on anyones list

 

As regards to armouring the whole chapter it’s rarely deployed all together but it really didn’t take that long to get him ready for war, I’m not sure if anyone has ever seen the armouring of a late medieval man at arms but it takes a long while it was also common for Templars or more devote knights etc to spend an evening in prayer before battle so nothing here is very convoluted

 

If you’ll notice with the ritual they only items actually carried around were the cuirass which has the Imperialis and the Bolt Rifle [+Magazine] as they both have spiritual significance to the Astartes the bolter is seen as a holy instrument of death and the Imperialis is the sign of loyalty from the heresy

 

Everything we saw was the most important part of the ritual, Combat knives are a personal item so I imagine he’ll receive it I imagine in the chamber but the rest I’m sure will be in the armoury

[Bryan Blaire]

People keep talking about the impracticality of this, seemingly forgetting, as Doghouse said - this is 40K, so let’s actually consider what we are shown.

 

The animation to armor the Marine is 4:42 long, but let’s assume that there’s another 25:18 of time getting things prepared to armor the Marine we didn’t see.

 

Let’s also assume an entire Chapter is being deployed from a completely inactive status, but actively relaxing on 10 ships (so one company per ship).

 

Let’s also assume than there is only a single chamber to arm up a Marine in this way per ship.

 

In the instant that the call to arm up and deploy to a combat zone comes in, the process to armor up begins (let’s face it, relaxing for a Marine means preparing for war, so they are going to be ready to start when the call comes).

 

Per ship, based on these assumptions, it would take 2.08 days to armor an entire Chapter.

 

That seems absolutely reasonable to have done on the way to a battle zone through the Warp.

 

Now, the thing that seems “not 40K” about these assumptions to me - that there is only a single armoring chamber in an entire ship.

 

Everything else about it seems pretty reasonable, but even if you doubled the prep time, you’re jumping the time to 4.2 days - which seems like a perfectly reasonable travel time in the Warp to a combat zone for a close location.

 

Honestly, the 4:42 seconds to go from not active to combat ready seems pretty damn quick, especially when you aren’t sitting around with any of your gear at hand except praying over your weapon.

 

In the end though, if you are complaining about “practicality” on something involving a Space Marine, you’ve already lost your argument, it’s already a non-issue because you’ve accepted the practicality of a Space Marine.  Pretty much anything after that is practical.

 

————————————

 

techsoldaten, of course it’s contrived - it’s a fictional setting - everything about it is contrived.  Literally.

 

Even in real life, a ritual is contrived.

 

Definition of contrive:

-DEVISE, PLAN

-to form or create in an artistic or ingenious manner

-to bring about by stratagem or with difficulty

-create or bring about (an object or a situation) by deliberate use of skill and artifice

-manage to do something foolish or create an undesirable situation

-to plan with ingenuity; devise; invent

-to bring about or effect by a plan, scheme, or the like; manage

-to plot (evil, treachery, etc.)

-to form designs; plan

 

So yes, it’s contrived.

[Triszin]

While this conversion should likely be moved to the marine sub forum.

 

I could see 2 versions of this. The video represents the parade variant. While there is likely a faster armoring version for tactical purposes

[Bryan Blaire]

While this conversion should likely be moved to the marine sub forum.

 

I could see 2 versions of this. The video represents the parade variant. While there is likely a faster armoring version for tactical purposes

What tactical purpose would be necessary for a Marine to be out of their armor?

 

If there’s tactical activity going on, a Marine should already be armored and be staying that way, short of repairing combat damage to an armor component.

 

Yes, this ritual definitely seems like something that occurs when the Marines are activated and moving to a combat zone only - once they are in a combat zone, any removal of armor is probably very limited in scope, and accomplished with less (but likely still not completely lacking) ritual and fewer servitors.

[phandaal]

 

In the end though, if you are complaining about “practicality” on something involving a Space Marine, you’ve already lost your argument, it’s already a non-issue because you’ve accepted the practicality of a Space Marine.  Pretty much anything after that is practical.

 

Other points were good because we do know the ships of the Imperium are ridiculously huge and could hold any number of arming chambers, plus there are abbreviated armoring rituals described elsewhere. i.e. only had time for short prayers, hope my armor forgives me.

 

The quoted bit though, maybe not so much.

 

We cannot justify everything "because Space Marines exist." Every universe has rules, even 40k. The question is "what is practical for a Space Marine?"

 

- Edited for more niceness.

Edited March 12, 2022 by phandaal