+ + Perfection in all things - Emperor's Children 9th edition codex tactica thread ++

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

As Emperor's Children players, we strive for perfection on the table top.  The purpose of this thread is to explore the tactical opportunities created by the 9th edition Heretic Astartes codex and to discuss how they will allow us to humble our enemies.

This is the perfect place to explore topics related to the supreme space marines of the Emperor's Children Legion, including (but are not limited to):

• Powerful combinations
• Majestic character builds
• Discussion of our many table top victories and of our rare defeats
• Potent army lists
• Optimal use of our units, stratagems, warlord traits, relics and other battlefield resources.
• Pitfalls to be avoided

 

As a note, all arrogance and coloured text is probably best reserved to this initial post. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui

[MDops]

Our legion trait seems to benefit our bog standard Legionnaires and Noise Marines more than most other units opening up our armies to be unexpectedly mobile and effectively adding 6" to our heavy weapons and 6+d6" to the assault ones. 

With this in mind, some of the theory crating lists that I have made on battlescribe, my chainsword legionnaires squad will have a missile launcher or a lascannon for utility. Still need to try this in battle though.

[Pirate Empress]

Honestly I think beatstick HQs are a big trap for this army considering how hard certain units can hit already in the shooting and combat phases. Really you want a Dark Apostle, Sorcerer, and/or Master of Possession to maximize your army's potential and let them do all the killing rather than trying to make an Eidolon or Julius Kaesoron. Not that Lucius the Eternal is bad, he's actually pretty damn great this edition it's just he's not what I would consider warlord material....which is surprisingly fluffy if you know a lot about Lucius.

[Verbal Underbelly]

I agree that letting the troops do the heavy lifting is probably a great idea. However, I'm super interested in the Chaos Lord I "designed" once I bought the codex. I'm being lazy and copy pasting from my spreadsheet.

Chaos Lord	Plasma pistol, thunder hammer, frag grenades, krak grenades	Let the Galaxy Burn, Mark of Slaanesh, Flawless Perfection, Armour of Contempt, Lord of Chaos
		Warlord Trait: Flames of Spite (-1 CP)
		Relic: Mantle of Traitors (-1 CP)

If I've got it right that means I have 6 attacks at strength 8 which ignore hit modifiers, re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound, 6's to wound have an extra pip of AP and cause a single Mortal Wound on top of that. Finally, Mantle of Traitors allows me a once per game, free Soporific Gaze (usually 2CP). His only problem is mobility but I think he'd be a bit broken with a jump pack but there again I'm not a very competitive player.

[TheWillTheWay]

People have been talking about this a lot already, but the 1CP stratagem "Murderous perfection" is great for us. EVERY unit in our army can use it since everything gets the SLAANESH keyword, even if a unit doesn't have the "Mark of Slaanesh" upgrade. I would always try to use it on a weapon that has it's doctrine in play. Lascannon are a great target on turn 1. If you miss, you can turn that miss into two hits. If you fail to wound, you can turn it into a successful wound with extra AP. If your lascannon whiffs, turn that 1 damage into 6 damage. I'm going to be experimenting with the Predator tank with twin soulfire lascannons, two heavy bolters, and a combi-melta, which runs you exactly the same price as a unit of havocs with mark of Slaanesh, 4 lascannons, and a boltgun/chainsword champion. Combi melta is also a good target for the strat on turn 2 onwards, though I would generally not try to go with 12" of something because I don't really want it to get charged.

I love Lucius. Forcing a fight last is great. It gives you free reign to heroically intervene him when something gets charged. Its one of those things people forget about, they charge into you willy-nilly, thinking their beefed up warlord or whatever is going to be able to wreck you before you have the chance to strike back, then you inform them that their warlord is dead.

A lot of people are taking 10 mans of noise marines so they're better buff targets, especially for excruciating frequencies, I haven't tested them on 10 man, but I really don't like it in theory. 10 mans are harder to hide, and hiding is basically their main defense. One gets caught visible you can lose a lot of expensive units very quickly. Obviously MSUs are better for action economy, 2 5 mans able to hold more objectives, and shuts down fewer guns when you preform an action.

Moreover, I feel like the 10 mans are too much firepower, they can overkill pretty hard and you can lose a lot of that value. A 5 man gets 3MW on average in a single excruciating frequencies salvo, while a 10 man would get about 5.5. Again though, you're probably gonna overkill with that 10 man a lot, rolling more mortal wounds than your limit of 6. The five mans are plenty of firepower, one five man has equal or better ranged damage output than a 10 man with boltguns and heavy bolters or lascannons in almost all circumstances. They're still great buff targets with a whole lot of punch in those 5 mans, and super mobile. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by TheWillTheWay

[Maschinenpriester]

I am still waiting for my codex to be delivered. Is intoxicating elixir still a thing?

Did anyone try 10 noise marines Ina dread claw or 9 + lord yet?

[Bulwyf]

I am now 2-0 using my EC with the new rules. I have beat both necrons and space wolves. 

4 squads of MSU noise marines with 4 sonic blasters and one blastmaster is just so much fun with the massive amount of shooting.

Two squads of possessed and one squad of warp talons can clear things out on objectives as well as push ahead of the noise marines to keep them from being tied up in combat. 

Lucius and the MOP are auto includes. 

[Verbal Underbelly]

I enjoying the enthusiasm so far. Seems like everyone's got varied takes on how to use our Legion which is great news. In terms of my own troops choices I'm building toward the following:

8 Noise Marines: plasma pistol, power fist, blastmaster, 6 chainswords & bolt pistols (to go in a transport with 2 character models)

5 Noise Marines: 4 sonic blasters, 1 blastmaster

10 Legionaries: power sword, 2 heavy weapons, 7 bolters

I ought to add doom sirens but I can't think of a satisfactory way to model them. I never enjoyed the "sonic backpacks" that are the official model. Felt visually clumsy to me.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Verbal Underbelly

[Filkarion]

I will try our new rules tomorrow at 750 for a quick "back to play after a long time" game. I will use a lord, a MoP and 3 "max amplified" 5 men squads of Noise Marines

with low count of units I will try raiment repulsive  to perform actions while shooting. I am uncertain for the last 50 points... 2 spawns for fast hitters or cultists for more actions and backfield objective campers?

7 hours ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

I ought to add doom sirens but I can't think of a satisfactory way to model them. I never enjoyed the "sonic backpacks" that are the official model. Felt visually clumsy to me.

this is my take

cheap and easy based on pimaris vents (I guess a lot of us have a ton of them) glued to each other in multiples, plus some fancy bits

here a more complex one with dark eldar bikes bits

hope it gives you even better ideas

Edited July 13, 2022 by Filkarion

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Those doom sirens are great, Filkarion - thanks for sharing.

Seems like my meaningful participation in this thread will be delayed - while the codex that I ordered just arrived, they sent me the French version.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Verbal Underbelly]

Zut, alors!

Edited July 13, 2022 by Verbal Underbelly

[Prot]

Oh wow. Just love the chemical tubes on the vents. It has a hint of BIle in it to me. I love it!

I really do like this army, I think the one game I've seen with them really tempted me. I am equally attracted to Creations of Bile though, and I will probably try both, however being limited in marks kind of bugs me. But they do have a great angle, great relics/traits too.

[Filkarion]

well, the apple does not fall too far from its legion... even if Fabiulous has distanced himself quite a lot. I want to try creations soon myself

To indulge in the conversion topic Dark eldar bits are a blessing. I strongly suggest buying a talos kit, if you find it on a budget.

maybe I should open an "Emperor's children conversion advice" post to exchange some tips (I feel the need to kitbash again and I need inspiration). I think it would be interesting and I will avoid further off-topics

Edited July 13, 2022 by Filkarion

[Verbal Underbelly]

I have a lot of Dark Eldar bits and pieces knocking around and its design language is very appropriate for Emperor's Children. I've made my blastmasters using jet bike exhausts. The chains and blades work really well aesthetically as well.  

[Dr_Ruminahui]

2 hours ago, Filkarion said:

maybe I should open an "Emperor's children conversion advice" post to exchange some tips (I feel the need to kitbash again and I need inspiration). I think it would be interesting and I will avoid further off-topics

You totally should - I think a bunch of us have interesting things we've done to give our Emperor's Children army a distinctive look, and I think it would be a great resource for all of us.

So, please do!

[Dr_Ruminahui]

On 7/12/2022 at 2:10 PM, Maschinenpriester said:

I am still waiting for my codex to be delivered. Is intoxicating elixir still a thing?

Missed this - it is, but it works a bit differently - it instead is a 1 use item that for one phase gives a random number of extra attacks and limits the number of wounds you can take that phase.

[Maschinenpriester]

5 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Missed this - it is, but it works a bit differently - it instead is a 1 use item that for one phase gives a random number of extra attacks and limits the number of wounds you can take that phase.

Thanks for the Info. Hopefully I receive my codex at some point this week. Then I can hopefully get in the full picture.

Sounds a bit like a downgrade to me. I really liked to option to have T5 on a juiced up squad of terminators or noise marines. Luckily we could use Fabius bile for that. But our HQ slots are heavily contested...

Black rune I heard also gives a good defensive buff. So I guess this will be the way to go.

Stacked with delightful agonies a terminator squad should be looking quite resilient.

Can a MoP cast delightful agonies in this iteration of the codex?

This could be a unit to walk with them and also review one guy a turn.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Maschinenpriester

[Verbal Underbelly]

Black Rune is excellent when given to a unit of Terminators; for me it's an auto-include. -1 to wound across the whole unit really leans into the 2+ 5++

I believe MoP gets Delightful Agonies by default. I think all psykers with MoS get it automatically on top of their other selectable powers.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Verbal Underbelly

[Filkarion]

46 minutes ago, Maschinenpriester said:

Sounds a bit like a downgrade to me. I really liked to option to have T5 on a juiced up squad of terminators or noise marines.

if you are thinking "unit buff" you are talking about the old "combat elisir" stratagem. now it is also a one time buff (a good but costly one)

 

46 minutes ago, Maschinenpriester said:

Luckily we could use Fabius bile for that. But our HQ slots are heavily contested

Bile can only improve unmarked core units, as far as I can read

46 minutes ago, Maschinenpriester said:

Black rune I heard also gives a good defensive buff. So I guess this will be the way to go.

Stacked with delightful agonies a terminator squad should be looking quite resilient.

there is a stratagem to give a relic from a list to a unit champion and yes, this combo is possible and seems very good

46 minutes ago, Maschinenpriester said:

Can a MoP cast delightful agonies in this iteration of the codex?

This could be a unit to walk with them and also review one guy a turn.

Thanks to the MoS yes.

The MoP is very powerful, so much so that I expect some nerfs soon

[Maschinenpriester]

Hmm sounds like quite a lot changed.

Really would not like bile anymore if he only works with unmarked units for some reason.

Therefore he would be quite useless for EC.

Seems like they tried to reduce the buff stacking a bit.

[Filkarion]

on the plus side the legion ignores malus to hit and get bettre ap on six to wound both melee and ranged

On paper this means a flexible an mobile force, immune to some bitter shenanigans and lot of terrain issues... I will see in a few hours how it translates on practice. My hope is it will mean having a force that "plays" like you would expect from Fulgrim crew

[mikael]

Hi everyone!

I got a quick question, trying to find it for two days already, can someone point to where does it says in the codex that all units in an EC detachment get the Slaanesh keyword?

Thanks in advance
mika

[Dr_Ruminahui]

At least on in the French version, its on page 112 (the page about the chaos marks) in the tan coloured box immediately below the point and above the mark of nurgle box) - though by my read, it requires you to take the mark for characters and core models (but not cultists) - so, you have to pay the points for it, and you can't give it to cultists or non-character, non-core models or units.

[MDops]

3 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

At least on in the French version, its on page 112 (the page about the chaos marks) in the tan coloured box immediately below the point and above the mark of nurgle box) - though by my read, it requires you to take the mark for characters and core models (but not cultists) - so, you have to pay the points for it, and you can't give it to cultists or non-character, non-core models or units.

Same location in the English one as well

I know things like Venomcrawlers get the slaanesh keyword but I'm assuming that they don't get the mark benifits being a keyword swap rather than purchasing the mark

Edited July 20, 2022 by MDops

[mikael]

Characters and core unit have to take the mark so they get slaanesh keyword, that much is clear.
 

But in more then one review I saw that other units like possessed and vehicles also get the slaanesh keyword and I can't find where it says so in the codex.