Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Valrak is now saying we'll be getting a box set with the long-rumored models at some point after the first of the year. This isn't going to be something like Shadowspear or any of the battleboxes we're used to. It'll instead just be a single-faction army box, though with a much smaller model count than most army boxes we've seen:

 

1 HQ - Primaris Lieutenant (no details, Valrak hopes Gravis and I suspect that's a solid bet to complement the following)

1 Troop - Heavy Intercessors (the existing models)

1 Elite - Brutalis Dread

1 Heavy Support - a full ten-man Desolation Squad (I've been calling these "Desolators" since he first talked about them, but "Desolation Squad" is apparently the only name his source has used)

 

Val didn't ID the battlefield roles for the Brutalis and Desolation Squad, that's just my safe assumption.

 

Also, he mentioned that the Brutalis will have several options for weapons and fists/claws, while the Des crew's missile launchers will be underslung Aliens smartgun style rather than being shoulder-mounted.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Lord Nord

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I will be disappointed if the missile launchers aren’t should fired or shoulder mounted (ala fragstorm, or terminator typhoon) and is indeed mounted under a bolt rifle or a gauntlet.

 

maybe I will be pleasantly surprised though.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Sounds good.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Lord Nord said:

1 HQ - Primaris Lieutenant (no details, Valrak hopes Gravis and I suspect that's a solid bet to complement the following)

 

The Gravis Battalion dream (without Captain + Chapter Master) is alive and well!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

The Gravis Battalion dream (without Captain + Chapter Master) is alive and well!

I plan to start my Vth Company (Ultras) on the 1st... Gravis Vth is so tempting.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Brother Captain Arkley

[jimbo1701]

13 hours ago, Lord Nord said:

Valrak is now saying we'll be getting a box set with the long-rumored models at some point after the first of the year. This isn't going to be something like Shadowspear or any of the battleboxes we're used to. It'll instead just be a single-faction army box, though with a much smaller model count than most army boxes we've seen:

 

1 HQ - Primaris Lieutenant (no details, Valrak hopes Gravis and I suspect that's a solid bet to complement the following)

1 Troop - Heavy Intercessors (the existing models)

1 Elite - Brutalis Dread

1 Heavy Support - a full ten-man Desolation Squad (I've been calling these "Desolators" since he first talked about them, but "Desolation Squad" is apparently the only name his source has used)

 

Val didn't ID the battlefield roles for the Brutalis and Desolation Squad, that's just my safe assumption.

 

Also, he mentioned that the Brutalis will have several options for weapons and fists/claws, while the Des crew's missile launchers will be underslung Aliens smartgun style rather than being shoulder-mounted.

 

Sounds interesting thanks for sharing. Will look forward to it if it comes to pass. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I'm going to go ahead and predict right now that the Lieutenant model will be rocking a loadout we haven't seen yet. I think Valrak is right that he'll be in Gravis, but it won't be a semi-Aggressor kit like the DI Captain in Gravis nor a promoted Heavy Intercessor like the MC HBR Captain. And it definitely won't be wearing an Inceptor suit.

 

No, much like the Phobos Lieutenant from Shadowspear was essentially a preview of the Incursor squad, I think this guy will be a preview of the long-awaited Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield Gravis squad. And then we'll see THAT squad released later in the year.

[lansalt]

A Gravis TH+SS squad would overlap with a Primaris Terminator release, so I don't see it.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

We shall see.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Still hoping for Gravis terminators armed with melta flamers.

[9x19 Parabellum]

i'm surprised the "Desolator" squad doesn't continue with the "I" team of primaris stuff. They should be ISOLATORS!!!

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Still hoping for Gravis terminators armed with melta flamers.

 

No such thing as a Gravis Terminator.

 

Also, we have Eradicators. The "Gravis melta" niche is already taken care of.

 

Desolators are a nice addition to the Chunky Supremacy though.

[Marshal Reinhard]

3 hours ago, lansalt said:

A Gravis TH+SS squad would overlap with a Primaris Terminator release, so I don't see it.

Wasn't that one of the rumors though, that the supposed Primaris Terminator squad is Gravis marines with classic terminator weapons? I wanna recall at least one version returgitated like that. Most versions of the rumor were silent on what "Primaris terminator" exactly meant.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

One of the rumormongers mentioned that the Desolators are Tacticus, not Gravis.  I forget where I heard that but I am still hoping they're of the chonk variety instead.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

2 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

One of the rumormongers mentioned that the Desolators are Tacticus, not Gravis.  I forget where I heard that but I am still hoping they're of the chonk variety instead.

 

I am pretty sure they'll be Tacticus - having Gravis makes sense for a shortish-range Fire Support unit like the Eradicators (and the Aggressors, for that matter). But the Desolators would have even less of a need for it than the Hellblasters, who wear Tacticus.

 

Plus Valrak's source specifically said it would be a ten-man "Desolation Squad" in the box. If Desolators were in Gravis, they'd undoubtedly be sold in five-man kits and I can't see GW packing in what would amount to a double kit of a new unit. Especially one that doesn't have the Troop role (they won't even do it for the Heavy Intercessors).

[phandaal]

17 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

Plus Valrak's source specifically said it would be a ten-man "Desolation Squad" in the box. If Desolators were in Gravis, they'd undoubtedly be sold in five-man kits and I can't see GW packing in what would amount to a double kit of a new unit. Especially one that doesn't have the Troop role (they won't even do it for the Heavy Intercessors).

 

A ten-man squad could be included in an army box. Heavy Intercessors come in boxes of 5 but can be taken in squads of 10, and the Imperial Fists holiday army box comes with 15 of them.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

True, but this situation is notably different - the upcoming box is not supposed to be on the level of the extremely-limited holiday boxes and the Heavy Intercessors are no longer a new kit as these Desolators will be. Last year, even in the battleforce boxes, they were only included in five-man combat squads while the Intercessors and Assault Intercessors showed up in full ten-man strength. And they weren't even a new kit then, just new-ish. Meanwhile the Desolators will be making their debut in this box.

 

I was wrong about them "not doing it" for the Heavy Intercessors at all, though. I mentally rejected that Fists box so long ago that I forgot it packed in three of the HI kits.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Lord Nord

[phandaal]

That is how most people react to more Imperial Fists these days...

 

And yes, the description so far does not scream "Gravis," but I will not let reality get in the way of my dreams!

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

If it's any comfort, I wrote off the Raven Guard box even earlier. Only planning to have two Invictors in my army. Plus at this point I feel like I should be charging GW for storage for the unbuilt Reivers I already have.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Lord Nord

[jaxom]

On 12/12/2022 at 1:55 PM, phandaal said:

 

That is Aggressors.

 

Storm Bolters + Power Fists: Auto-Boltstorm Gauntlets, Cyclone Missile Launcher: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher.

 

Bingo. I think the big question was if there would ever be an equivalent for the Terminator Assault Squad (lightning claws, TH&SS). In regards to that...

 

On 12/13/2022 at 1:14 PM, Marshal Reinhard said:

Wasn't that one of the rumors though, that the supposed Primaris Terminator squad is Gravis marines with classic terminator weapons? I wanna recall at least one version returgitated like that. Most versions of the rumor were silent on what "Primaris terminator" exactly meant.

 

Until there's hard evidence otherwise, I'm convinced someone at some point saw the Votann Hearthguard and jumped to some conclusions. Those models were stated to be based on Saturnine Pattern Terminator Armor and I saw them without knowing Votann were a thing, or early mock-ups I'd jump straight to Primaris Terminators.

 

On 12/12/2022 at 5:14 AM, Marshal Reinhard said:

Surpressors were by far the most criticized element of shadowspear, mostly due the lack of visually apparent thrusters. The reveal of essentially flight versions of Tacticus armor (ie adding leg thrusters and neo-jump packs) in space marine II does put the future of omnis releases into question.

 

Suppressors, according to Jes Goodwin, were designed as hoppers. The anti-grav tech lets them make big, bounding, leaps. Inceptors were the ones designed with flight in mind. The Space Marine II version was bespoke for the game, but that could mean one of two things. First, the game studio wanted to include jumppack portions like the original and GW came up with something without any plans to have Primaris jumppackers. Or, the one Titus has is bespoke because it has to be something that can go over his power plant and then release easily (like the jumppack in the first game did).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d love to see the reference regarding Saturnine Pattern Terminator Armor.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I’d love to see the reference regarding Saturnine Pattern Terminator Armor.

 

In the Votann codex, some of the pictures have reference codes attached to them. There is a pic of the mini-nators with "Saturnine" in the reference code.

 

They do kind of look like the old Rogue Trader Terminators if you squint.

[jaxom]

4 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I’d love to see the reference regarding Saturnine Pattern Terminator Armor.

Warhammer Community - Designing the Leagues of Votann Here's the relevant bits:

Quote

“The Leagues exo-armour went through several iterations”, Jes continues. “Trying to evoke the feel of early Terminator suits while making them their own thing was a bit of a balancing act. In the end I looked back at a very early Terminator model I made in the eighties, before the design that we are familiar with today was set. The huge pauldrons, exposed spine, and inset bowl helmet are from there.

And the picture comparison from the article with the Saturnine armour:

Spoiler

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thanks guys !!

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

More rumor-slinging from our boy Valrak...

 

The 10th-Edition boxset is supposedly called Leviathan and he received some info on the contents:

 

The Space Marines will indeed be presented as Blood Angels, but the models will all be generic (by my math, we've now gone from the initial "Blood Angels in the launch box" to a clarification of "generic Marines painted as Blood Angels" to "Nah, they're going to be painted as Ultramarines, syncing up with the story in Space Marine 2" now back to "generic Marines painted red." So place your bets accordingly.)

 

Also, Val had a little bit of information on the Space Marine side:

 

1) One of the HQs will be a new Librarian model. No more details given, but I'd personally expect this will either be in a non-Tacticus armor pattern or at least have jump capability. I'd also think that it will be a Primaris model, which is apparently no longer a sure thing given that...

 

2) The long-rumored "Primaris Terminators" are now supposed to be simple rescaling of the Firstborn unit. There is apparently a squad of them in this box, but they will not be carrying the PRIMARIS keyword. Terminator armor is apparently being preserved as an armor pattern exclusive to the Firstborn. These new models will just be upscaled in line with more recent Firstborn models we've seen (and hopefully redesigned to eliminate the dreaded "arms growing out of the ears" issue).

 

That was it for the "reveals" from this video. There were no details on the Tyranid side, although Val speculated that new Genestealer models might appear just to keep up the tradition of "Terminators vs. Genestealers."

 

Link to video