Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

It makes more sense it would be unit specific.

It’s a lame cop out for chapter specific units.

each major chapter has very unique FB special units. The idea of upgrade sprues for generic primaris units is just so boring and uninspiring. If that’s the only way they went, it would be the height of their lazy greedy tactics.

[UnkyHamHam]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

It’s a lame cop out for chapter specific units.

each major chapter has very unique FB special units. The idea of upgrade sprues for generic primaris units is just so boring and uninspiring. If that’s the only way they went, it would be the height of their lazy greedy tactics.

I understand and agree with this sentiment, but I honestly think there is room for both. 

Like having ultra unique snow flake units is awesome, but flavored variation on interesting units might be a good holdover and addition to the more divergent units. 

I mean just look at Grey Hunters and Crusader Squads. They are just a Tac squad, and Tac/Scout combined unit respectively, with very minor wargear alterations.

I love this kind of unit tinkering. Not every one needs snowflake Terminators, bikes, and Jump marines. Some do need those things, but others would fine with a more subtle flavored version of the baseline unit. 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just now, UnkyHamHam said:

I understand and agree with this sentiment, but I honestly think there is room for both. 

Like having ultra unique snow flake units is awesome, but flavored variation on interesting units might be a good holdover and addition to the more divergent units. 

I mean just look at Grey Hunters and Crusader Squads. They are just a Tac squad, and Tac/Scout combined unit respectively, with very minor wargear alterations.

I love this kind of unit tinkering. Not every one needs snowflake Terminators, bikes, and Jump marines. Some do need those things, but others would fine with a more subtle flavored version of the baseline unit. 

 

I’m not saying not to do those upgrade sprues, but if that’s where it stops, that’s a :cuss:ty way for them to go.

like I don’t think DA have any specific primaris units yet (or did I miss something?) so an upgrade sprue for a generic unit, would make sense as a first step, but if it was 1st upgrade for BGV, and then upgrade for stormspeeders, then an upgrade for aggressors, that would likely be extremely messed up.

[UnkyHamHam]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I’m not saying not to do those upgrade sprues, but if that’s where it stops, that’s a :cuss:ty way for them to go.

like I don’t think DA have any specific primaris units yet (or did I miss something?) so an upgrade sprue for a generic unit, would make sense as a first step, but if it was 1st upgrade for BGV, and then upgrade for stormspeeders, then an upgrade for aggressors, that would likely be extremely messed up.

I definitely agree. Like, painting inceptors or Suppressors gold in no way makes them Primaris Sanguinary Guard. They obviously need a proper kit. 

[Helias_Tancred]

On 7/27/2022 at 5:01 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I believe the firstborn are essentially a dead line, and I’m not 100% excited about that, but if it’s going to happen, I just want it to happen sooner rather than later.

With the exception of the Grey Knights, I agree. The new Crowe model was a grand slam!

I don't think there will be any formal announcement from GW, there just won't be any new model kits for them, which has already sorta happened. Now if we're talking rules I believe they will be in the rules for years to come. Many years to come. But the future for the marine line is primaris. 

 

27 minutes ago, UnkyHamHam said:

I definitely agree. Like, painting inceptors or Suppressors gold in no way makes them Primaris Sanguinary Guard. They obviously need a proper kit. 

Thats coming with the next Blood Angel new product wave. Primaris Sanguinary Guard.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

3 hours ago, UnkyHamHam said:

Specifically easy wins for GW, production wise. Like no new models, but unique spins on existing kits like the mentioned Reiver and Intercessors. 

All you need is rules to make them work. And if you must, repackage the appropriate chapter upgrade sprue with the intended unit. Wah-la, new unit. 

"I mean just look at Grey Hunters and Crusader Squads. They are just a Tac squad, and Tac/Scout combined unit respectively, with very minor wargear alterations."

Incorrect - GH and CS can be built for melee as they should… otherwise why would anyone ever field them ? I would to see a Primaris Grey Hunter squad.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

36 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

"I mean just look at Grey Hunters and Crusader Squads. They are just a Tac squad, and Tac/Scout combined unit respectively, with very minor wargear alterations."

Incorrect - GH and CS can be built for melee as they should… otherwise why would anyone ever field them ? I would to see a Primaris Grey Hunter squad.

primaris grey hunters? assault intercessors with an upgrade sprue! :P

1 hour ago, Helias Tancred said:

With the exception of the Grey Knights, I agree. The new Crowe model was a grand slam!

I don't think there will be any formal announcement from GW, there just won't be any new model kits for them, which has already sorta happened. Now if we're talking rules I believe they will be in the rules for years to come. Many years to come. But the future for the marine line is primaris. 

 

Thats coming with the next Blood Angel new product wave. Primaris Sanguinary Guard.

speaking of GK, i wonder if they'll get primaris, or if not how they'll address that in lore. mephiston and generic primaris psyker models shows that being a psyker isn't a barrier.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'd say I expect us to get primaris GK eventually. Perhaps first after the whole "primaris terminator conundrum" is solved

[WAR]

I don't see Primaris GK (I could be wrong) but I could see them true scaling Gk to make them current. 

[Helias_Tancred]

1 hour ago, war009 said:

I don't see Primaris GK (I could be wrong) but I could see them true scaling Gk to make them current. 

That is the biggest primaris/firstborn question in the entire space marine line: What will happen with the Grey Knights?

If I had my choice thats what I'd want to happen, just go back and true scale the entire GK line vs giving them primaris.

But if I were a gambling man I'd say Reinhard is correct, they will eventually receive primaris. IMO it will happen after the primaris terminator issue is resolved, AND the primaris line broadened with stormbolters and other special weapons being primaris-ized.

 

[Captain Idaho]

Ah they'll receive Primaris treatment. It's GW's thing. There's no doubt long term.

[Blindhamster]

i dont think they will, i think they'll get crowe treatment. One of the books has a throwaway comment relating to the grey knights and it not working. Wonder if it will relate to them using "the emperors gene seed" or something. There'll be a reason. Just dont see them getting "primaris" anything as they didn't do it with crowe. Crowe himself is about the size of chaos marines but does borrow some design elements from primaris so that's what I'd anticipate.

[Karhedron]

11 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

i dont think they will, i think they'll get crowe treatment. One of the books has a throwaway comment relating to the grey knights and it not working. Wonder if it will relate to them using "the emperors gene seed" or something.

I thought "Fury of Magnus" confirmed the Grey Knights are actually based on Magnus's geneseed but with the Flash Change fixed properly. They are basically loyalist Thousand Sons.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Makes sense to me.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

So, more JoyToy stuff showed up in the last couple of days which will likely appear in our standard 40K-scale range soon. In this case it isn't generic but a BA-specific squad:

This is just one of many photos - I encourage you all to check out the JoyToy thread in the news and rumors board. There are several shots of the individual models as well as the Redemptor Dread that the Blood Angels will also be getting.

These guys are called the "Paragons of Baal" and yeah, they COULD just be a BA-branded version of the "Veteran Assault Intercessor" I linked to a while back here. They seem to have the same loadout wargear-wise, just a lot of BA bling on top of that.

And if you aren't familiar with JoyToy, they only produce four-model squads for some reason so if the BA do get their own version of the Veteran AI squad in the 40K range - OR this in fact somehow ends up being a completely different squad - it will no doubt have five different poses.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Lord Nord

[Karhedron]

Wow, those Paragons of Ball look sweet! I would love a squad or two of them in 40K!

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, Lord Nord said:

So, more JoyToy stuff showed up in the last couple of days which will likely appear in our standard 40K-scale range soon. In this case it isn't generic but a BA-specific squad:

This is just one of many photos - I encourage you all to check out the JoyToy thread in the news and rumors board. There are several shots of the individual models as well as the Redemptor Dread that the Blood Angels will also be getting.

These guys are called the "Paragons of Baal" and yeah, they COULD just be a BA-branded version of the "Veteran Assault Intercessor" I linked to a while back here. They seem to have the same loadout wargear-wise, just a lot of BA bling on top of that.

And if you aren't familiar with JoyToy, they only produce four-model squads for some reason so if the BA do get their own version of the Veteran AI squad in the 40K range - OR this in fact somehow ends up being a completely different squad - it will no doubt have five different poses.

They appear to be primaris models with the standard non primaris upgrades added. And tabards

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Another tidbit I forgot to mention from checking out the JoyToy range - their version of the Invader features a crew that's more in line with the Outriders. Namely, they display the same ridged pauldron that the Assault Intercessors have. This always made sense as Outriders are likewise Close Support but even more, they carry the same personal loadout so they look like Assault Intercessors who simply hopped on a bike. One can imagine them taking part in a drop pod assault as foot soldiers and then once the immediate area is secure, jumping on to their also-dropped Raider bikes and venturing out further from their set perimeter as Outriders.

So it always followed that the Invader crew should have had the same look. But for whatever reason, the ETB Invader crew have the same unridged pauldron that the Battleline Intercessors have.

I may be overly optimistic, but I am going to take this as a positive sign that when the multipose Outrider kit finally gets released, it will be accompanied by an MPK Invader model with the correct version of the shoulder pad.

I really don't want to think that GW would give the JoyToy line the proper look for the Invader crew while their actual bread-and-butter 40K line gets the scrub version. I know there was a similar issue with the Primaris Company Champion (40K model forgot his Bolt Pistol, JoyToy version had it), but that was an event-exclusive model and I would be very surprised if the eventual general-release Primaris Champion doesn't have his Bolt Pistol (and hopefully a Combat Shield as well).

[Marshal Reinhard]

12 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

They appear to be primaris models with the standard non primaris upgrades added. And tabards

Those are just loin flaps. They're not tabards. I say that as someone fully acknowledging that 99% of Black Templars don't even wear tabards (They really wear aprons, save a couple of models)

But this is one step further removed again. Not that it detracts from your point.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Well, turns out I need to clarify a little misunderstanding I had previously... I was pointing to the Assault Intercessor style of shoulder pad used by the JoyToy crew of the Invader as evidence that that's how they SHOULD have been created for the 40K line (rather than having the standard Battleline Intercessor pauldrons).

Slight problem: those models don't actually come with the Invader. They are just standard JoyToy Assault Intercessors. So while it IS possible that they are working from info given them by GW that the Invader crew should have had that style of shoulder pad, it's also possible they just used the same models they had used for pictures of the Outrider bikes (which also don't actually include models of the Marines).

So while I still think the Invader crew should have had those higher-ridged pauldrons, I can't really point to the JoyToy model photos as any kind of evidence for what GW actually wanted or as evidence that an MPK version of the Invader may be on the way.

As partial restitution, here's another shot of the JoyToy "Assault Veteran Intercessor" that some of you might not have seen:

[Robbienw]

By the power of Greyskull!

[Orange Knight]

I think a Veteran kit with lots of customisation would probably tick a lot of boxes for a lot of people.

We don't need to make every unit as customisable, but a really flexible Veteran unit that can be geared with all sorts of close combat or range weapons would be very cool. 

I think the Black Templar Crusade Sword Brethren are a good example of such a unit. The generic version could perhaps come with additional ranged weapons options and less close combat weapons?

[Lemondish]

22 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I think the Black Templar Crusade Sword Brethren are a good example of such a unit. The generic version could perhaps come with additional ranged weapons options and less close combat weapons?

I agree, though I honestly wish it was less... restricted than the Sword Brethren kit. There's so many options, but for many you only get to take them once. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

you'll have the ability to take 1 per whatever comes in the box. 2 if you can double the squad with 2 kits.

[Blindhamster]

im hoping... veteran assault intercessors might end up all swapping chainswords for power swords (with no alternative melee perhaps, to keep sword brethren unique).

seems plausible based on all these joy toy sets where its entire squads of power sword using marines.