Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[Blindhamster]

5 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

More rumor-slinging from our boy Valrak...

 

The 10th-Edition boxset is supposedly called Leviathan and he received some info on the contents:

 

The Space Marines will indeed be presented as Blood Angels, but the models will all be generic (by my math, we've now gone from the initial "Blood Angels in the launch box" to a clarification of "generic Marines painted as Blood Angels" to "Nah, they're going to be painted as Ultramarines, syncing up with the story in Space Marine 2" now back to "generic Marines painted red." So place your bets accordingly.)

 

Also, Val had a little bit of information on the Space Marine side:

 

1) One of the HQs will be a new Librarian model. No more details given, but I'd personally expect this will either be in a non-Tacticus armor pattern or at least have jump capability. I'd also think that it will be a Primaris model, which is apparently no longer a sure thing given that...

 

2) The long-rumored "Primaris Terminators" are now supposed to be simple rescaling of the Firstborn unit. There is apparently a squad of them in this box, but they will not be carrying the PRIMARIS keyword. Terminator armor is apparently being preserved as an armor pattern exclusive to the Firstborn. These new models will just be upscaled in line with more recent Firstborn models we've seen (and hopefully redesigned to eliminate the dreaded "arms growing out of the ears" issue).

 

That was it for the "reveals" from this video. There were no details on the Tyranid side, although Val speculated that new Genestealer models might appear just to keep up the tradition of "Terminators vs. Genestealers."

 

Link to video

 

Some things:

• he says blood angels makes sense, but they could be red or blue, he actually doesn't know.
• he doesn't say the terminators don't have the primaris keyword, just that they're keeping the terminator design and being bigger and bulkier. Absolutely nothing on the rules front, so that's really a "could be either" kind of thing I would say. Can read between the lines, but it's still dealing with unknowns. The rules and model design are so often disconnected that we won't really know till actual rumours of the rules side happen. He DID say they're scaled to look right next to primaris, nothing about the upscaled firstborn. (honestly, I think if GW are smart, terminators might be the first unit where they say you can give it the primaris keyword as an option)

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Blindhamster

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

 

Some things:

• he says blood angels makes sense, but they could be red or blue, he actually doesn't know.
• he doesn't say the terminators don't have the primaris keyword, just that they're keeping the terminator design and being bigger and bulkier. Absolutely nothing on the rules front, so that's really a "could be either" kind of thing I would say. Can read between the lines, but it's still dealing with unknowns. The rules and model design are so often disconnected that we won't really know till actual rumours of the rules side happen. He DID say they're scaled to look right next to primaris, nothing about the upscaled firstborn. (honestly, I think if GW are smart, terminators might be the first unit where they say you can give it the primaris keyword as an option)

 

 

The one thing and I am going to speak mainly from myself but other Primaris only people.

 

I WANT TERMINATORS DAMMIT!!!!

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

36 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

 

Some things:

• he says blood angels makes sense, but they could be red or blue, he actually doesn't know.
• he doesn't say the terminators don't have the primaris keyword, just that they're keeping the terminator design and being bigger and bulkier. Absolutely nothing on the rules front, so that's really a "could be either" kind of thing I would say. Can read between the lines, but it's still dealing with unknowns. The rules and model design are so often disconnected that we won't really know till actual rumours of the rules side happen. He DID say they're scaled to look right next to primaris, nothing about the upscaled firstborn. (honestly, I think if GW are smart, terminators might be the first unit where they say you can give it the primaris keyword as an option)

 

 

"From what I'm hearing, they're not going to be Primaris Terminators. Basically Games Workshop is just redesigning the Terminator armor..."

[Karhedron]

58 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

1) One of the HQs will be a new Librarian model. No more details given, but I'd personally expect this will either be in a non-Tacticus armor pattern or at least have jump capability. I'd also think that it will be a Primaris model, which is apparently no longer a sure thing given that...

 

I wonder if this will be a new Terminator Librarian given that the generic Termie libby is no longer available (apart from MTO https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/12/warhammer-next-week-made-to-order-models-make-merry.html). A new one coming out in the 10th edition launch box would provide a good reason for a relatively new multi-part plastic model going out of production. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m thinking it will be a Primaris Librarian in Terminator armor.

[Blindhamster]

52 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

 

"From what I'm hearing, they're not going to be Primaris Terminators. Basically Games Workshop is just redesigning the Terminator armor..."

Guess we will see lol. 

[phandaal]

"Not going to be Primaris Terminators" could mean more than one thing. Could mean Games Workshop is not going to make an entirely new version of "Terminator" for the Primaris range.

 

Although I will say, if they spend a whole lot of time coming up with an entirely new armor design just to claim it is Terminator armor... that would not be very smart.

 

Just take Terminators, make them bigger, make the scale more proportionate. This is not rocket surgery.

[Captain Idaho]

Honestly, Primaris Terminators causes problems for Chaos Terminators in aesthetics, theme and concept. New "Primaris Terminators that are even better than your Chaos Terminators" is such a headache for GW to square away.

 

But then since when did the Chaos boys not get slapped around in the releases eh?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

CSM has units like Possessed with no Imperial equivalent so I’m not fussed if Primaris Terminators turn out to be a thing.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh it's not that, I think most Chaos boys don't mind there being differences in the ranges. I think it's more a direct equivalence sort of issue.

 

I'm sure it wouldn't matter once they're in. But conceptual it could cause problems. 

 

I imagine there'd be new Terminators for Chaos coming along too.

[Blindhamster]

Well, valrak specifically said the new terminators are scaled to look right by primaris models, so that sounds like they’ll be bigger than the chaos ones 

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

I imagine there'd be new Terminators for Chaos coming along too.

Given how recent the chaos terminator kit is? No?

[Captain Idaho]

Is it not just a rehash of the original kit? I've not checked.

 

But poor Chaos boys if so.

[WrathOfTheLion]

49 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Is it not just a rehash of the original kit? I've not checked.

 

But poor Chaos boys if so.

It's quite a handsome looking kit, although I wish it had more options.

[phandaal]

The Chaos Terminator kit is very good.

[Captain Idaho]

Be just the bitter sweetness eh. Here's a great new Terminator kit, Chaos fans. And now they're obsolete by these new Primaris Terminators. 

[jaxom]

I’m not at home, but IIRC the current Indomitus Termies are just about as tall as the new Mk6

[WrathOfTheLion]

9 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Be just the bitter sweetness eh. Here's a great new Terminator kit, Chaos fans. And now they're obsolete by these new Primaris Terminators. 

I don't think so. The Chaos Terminator kit is fantastic, besides wishing it had more options, and in 9E their rules are top notch. So overall been pretty happy with them.

 

The kit itself is very new. It came out with the new CSM kit, Abaddon, etc., so it's from like 2019.

[Marshal Reinhard]

38 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Be just the bitter sweetness eh. Here's a great new Terminator kit, Chaos fans. And now they're obsolete by these new Primaris Terminators. 

Is this your argument for everything else chaos? Normal chaos marines obsoleted by intercessors? No? Why should it be an argument worth considering here? Yes? Then why are you surprised here?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Honestly, Primaris Terminators causes problems for Chaos Terminators in aesthetics, theme and concept. New "Primaris Terminators that are even better than your Chaos Terminators" is such a headache for GW to square away.

 

But then since when did the Chaos boys not get slapped around in the releases eh?

Not really. There are plenty of ways to bring chaos termies up to par with parimaris, just say some chaos :cuss:ery was used, like their TDA had its machine spirit completely taken over by a lesser demon…which seems very plausible now that we know about vashtorr.

[Captain Idaho]

2 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Is this your argument for everything else chaos? Normal chaos marines obsoleted by intercessors? No? Why should it be an argument worth considering here? Yes? Then why are you surprised here?

 

Nah not surprised by anything. Space Marines expect treachery at every turn.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

10 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Well, valrak specifically said the new terminators are scaled to look right by primaris models, so that sounds like they’ll be bigger than the chaos ones 

 

"Looks right" is really subjective, when I'm playing against chaos my primaris look smaller than the chaos terminators bulkwise, and height wise I can't really tell. For me that "looks right" it might not for you. We'll have to wait for more info.

 

It doesn't surprise me that GW may go in this direction terminators are probably the most iconic unit in 40k and you don't mess with that.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Only Chaos gets the tusks and they rock.

[WrathOfTheLion]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Not really. There are plenty of ways to bring chaos termies up to par with parimaris, just say some chaos :cuss:ery was used, like their TDA had its machine spirit completely taken over by a lesser demon…which seems very plausible now that we know about vashtorr.

Rules-wise? Without some substantial change, I don't know if they'll need to. I'd go so far as to say that the Chaos Termies right now are better than every single unit in the entire SM codex, they're that good.

 

Anyways, to not diverge too much, I think at this point we'll see a lot more homage to the old line as it finishes out. Azrael and the Black Templar characters are such direct homages to their existing style beforehand, that they clearly intend to merge some of the most iconic stuff back in with the new designs.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Rules-wise? Without some substantial change, I don't know if they'll need to. I'd go so far as to say that the Chaos Termies right now are better than every single unit in the entire SM codex, they're that good.

 

Anyways, to not diverge too much, I think at this point we'll see a lot more homage to the old line as it finishes out. Azrael and the Black Templar characters are such direct homages to their existing style beforehand, that they clearly intend to merge some of the most iconic stuff back in with the new designs.

No clue what their current rules are, but I’m just saying that upgrading chaos marines to equal primaris marines is just super easy.

much easier than the other way around any way.