Upcoming BL Stuff - 2023

[Tolmeus]

I am really curious about the first novel involving the Lion. Should happen this year after his recent reveal. 

[aa.logan]

7 minutes ago, Tolmeus said:

I am really curious about the first novel involving the Lion. Should happen this year after his recent reveal. 

Trying to work out how they’ll handle it; aa far as I recall, Dark Imperium was released with the launch of 8th, but the 10th box set is going to be Ultramrines so the novel with that presumably won’t feature him. Doubt it’ll be a ‘Characters’ book, especially so soon after Cypher (and the return of the Lion so soon feels like it’s going to counter French’s carefully maintained mysteries there before it’s general release- boo!), so maybe a stand-alone title a lá Angron alongside the Dark Angels Codex (if there is going to be one?)

[Kelborn]

I hope we'll get one. The Lion deserves it (also the Kyn *shakes fist*)!

 

But I'm not sure if one novel would be enough to cover every ramification of his return:

- He and Roboute

- He and the state of the Imperium 

- He and the state + mindset of his former Legion

- He and the Fallen 

- He and Luther 

 

Framing it in a single book wouldn't work, imho. There are too many questions now.

 

- What will be the deal between him and RG?

- Will they even meet?

- Does he return to Terra? Does he need to?

- Will he reform the Unforgiven into a Legion and conquer Imperium Nihilus? Will he keep them as they are?

- Will he give his sons Legion tech to battle their enemies?

- Will he reestablish the Wings?

- How will he treat the Fallen? Are they even a prime target anymore?

- Will he meet Luther and how will it end?

- How will Cypher react when facing the Lion?

And so on.

 

I dearly hope we will get those answered. But my stomach says nah..GW won't bother.

[System Sound]

8 minutes ago, Kelborn said:

I hope we'll get one. The Lion deserves it (also the Kyn *shakes fist*)!

 

But I'm not sure if one novel would be enough to cover every ramification of his return:

- He and Roboute

- He and the state of the Imperium 

- He and the state + mindset of his former Legion

- He and the Fallen 

- He and Luther 

 

Framing it in a single book wouldn't work, imho. There are too many questions now.

 

- What will be the deal between him and RG?

- Will they even meet?

- Does he return to Terra? Does he need to?

- Will he reform the Unforgiven into a Legion and conquer Imperium Nihilus? Will he keep them as they are?

- Will he give his sons Legion tech to battle their enemies?

- Will he reestablish the Wings?

- How will he treat the Fallen? Are they even a prime target anymore?

- Will he meet Luther and how will it end?

- How will Cypher react when facing the Lion?

And so on.

 

I dearly hope we will get those answered. But my stomach says nah..GW won't bother.

BL is looking at this list: "Well sh**..."

[Tolmeus]

32 minutes ago, Kelborn said:

1. But I'm not sure if one novel would be enough to cover every ramification of his return:

- He and Roboute

- He and the state of the Imperium 

- He and the state + mindset of his former Legion

- He and the Fallen 

- He and Luther 

 

Got it. But than take a look at 'Dark Imperium' by Guy Haley and how aptly he got it done with similar difficulties. Personally, I would not have a problem with another triology like that 

[theSpirea]

It depends on who gets to write it and how much GW insists on the product placement push. I'm far from Thorpe's hater but his DAs books aren't the best. The DI trilogy was also pretty bad, especially the third book.

 

 

[Kelborn]

1 hour ago, Tolmeus said:

 

Got it. But than take a look at 'Dark Imperium' by Guy Haley and how aptly he got it done with similar difficulties. Personally, I would not have a problem with another triology like that 

 

True. That's why I said, I'm unsure about a single novel but rather hope for more. Perhaps a trilogy.

Anything decent enough to give those points air to breath and not be dealt with in mere paragraphs.

 

Especially the Fallen, his relation to the modern day Imperium, Roboute and his sons are the overall key themes I hope to see explored.

[System Sound]

Thorpe's Luther novella was pretty good. Cant saying anything about his older dark angel stuff though.

 

Maybe French could do it? He already did Cypher. The. Again I'd rather he finished Horusian's 3rd book and new Ahriman stuff.

 

Wraight maybe. Buy he also has a few series on going.

[63-19]

Hopefully we won't have to retcon multiple aspects of the story, the original trilogy, have to wait 3 years for developed story, and spend two editions talking about it.

[Ubiquitous1984]

There are so many plot points to resolve now the Lion has returned.  But I fear the majority will be handled in the codex format, rather than via BL.  Which is a shame because as much as I want to enjoy reading codex and campaign books, I really can't get into them.  Which as an avid lore fan is really frustrating!

 

Also I wonder how they will link in the events at the end of Godblight in the library on Macragge, with Imperium Secundus, and the Lion?  It felt like Haley had been setting up this plotline for a while, but the return of the Lion potentially gives RG a get out of jail free card (maybe?).  Would be interested to hear theories on how this could play out (if indeed the plotline gets picked up at all).

 

 

[Karhedron]

47 minutes ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

There are so many plot points to resolve now the Lion has returned.  But I fear the majority will be handled in the codex format, rather than via BL.  Which is a shame because as much as I want to enjoy reading codex and campaign books, I really can't get into them.  Which as an avid lore fan is really frustrating!

 

The initial fluff about Roboute's return was all in the Gathering Storm campaign book. We didn't get a novel about him until Dark Imperium came out about 3 months later

[DukeLeto69]

12 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

The initial fluff about Roboute's return was all in the Gathering Storm campaign book. We didn't get a novel about him until Dark Imperium came out about 3 months later

So do fraters believe the “in game” return of Lionel will be in an Arks of Omen book?

[wecanhaveallthree]

The continued references to Imperium Secondus just really grind my gears. It was (arguably - there are contenders) the worst part of the Heresy, and I just could not care any less about the suggestion that when Guilliman couldn't initially reach Terra, he forted up to keep the fight going until he could - if there was a Terra still there to reach. As soon as they got confirmation, they were off. Everybody involved parted on good terms. It's all a moot point, since the Emperor certainly knew, and he's given Guilliman his blessing. What, exactly, is the 'hook' of Imperium Secondus in 40K? Who's going to believe it, let alone care?

[aa.logan]

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

So do fraters believe the “in game” return of Lionel will be in an Arks of Omen book?

 

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

So do fraters believe the “in game” return of Lionel will be in an Arks of Omen book?

 

Very probably. Novels may well deal with the follow-on but I think Book 5 is where we will see the story told. Although the current hints are that the Lion has actually somehow been awake and active for a while.

[aa.logan]

Yeah, the lack of ‘Coming Soon’ updates could potentially explained by a raft of tie-in novels, kept hush-hush so as not to spoile the reveal, but they didn’t do that with Gathering Storm, so I’m assuming it’ll wait until after 10th- perhaps to maximise Arks of Omen sales? 

[DukeLeto69]

22 minutes ago, aa.logan said:

 

Aha!!!!!

[System Sound]

25 minutes ago, aa.logan said:

Yeah, the lack of ‘Coming Soon’ updates could potentially explained by a raft of tie-in novels, kept hush-hush so as not to spoile the reveal, but they didn’t do that with Gathering Storm, so I’m assuming it’ll wait until after 10th- perhaps to maximise Arks of Omen sales? 

You're giving BL too much credit here. I'm 99% sure that they just forgot that "Comic Soon" page exists... again.

[DarkChaplain]

The Lion is also supposedly allying with Dante, which coincides with his model for obvious reasons.

 

1 hour ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

The continued references to Imperium Secondus just really grind my gears. It was (arguably - there are contenders) the worst part of the Heresy, and I just could not care any less about the suggestion that when Guilliman couldn't initially reach Terra, he forted up to keep the fight going until he could - if there was a Terra still there to reach. As soon as they got confirmation, they were off. Everybody involved parted on good terms. It's all a moot point, since the Emperor certainly knew, and he's given Guilliman his blessing. What, exactly, is the 'hook' of Imperium Secondus in 40K? Who's going to believe it, let alone care?

 

Imperium Secundus is a dark stain on Guilliman's record because it certifies him as having given up during the Heresy. He did not make a run for Terra until the very end, even though his arrival was the final nail in the traitor assault's coffin. He bound the Dark Angels and even Blood Angels for years while the galaxy was ablaze, focusing on shoring up defences and fighting off Word Bearers and World Eaters from his domain. Not just that - Guilliman used the Pharos as an Astronomican 2.0, which is a symbolic usurpation of the Emperor's light as well as a potential distraction for navigating ships.

 

All of them believed that Terra had already been lost, without actual proof of it. They considered the Salamanders who went off to odyssey Vulkan's body back to Nocturne fools. Guilliman set up a new Emperor, and it was only with Sanguinius's arrival that this actually worked out - because the Lion would not have allowed Roboute to take that seat for himself, and Sanguinius was seen as the best of them to a degree that even the Lion could agree to it.

He also arrived on Terra late - also in part because he gave up on Terra for a while, due to the Astronomican going out. But when he did arrive, he literally stabs Russ in the Palace in an attempt to put the blame on somebody besides himself.

 

Originally, the Lion went to Ultramar after hearing about Imperium Secundus to put Guilliman down as a traitor. He's never been happy with it. And now we actually do have Lord Commander Guilliman, Imperial Regent, who stands above the High Lords, wields the Emperor's sword, and has replaced the Emperor's own Space Marine with new versions.

 

The Lion is unlikely to accept working under Guilliman. He's never even experienced the breaking of the Legions - he went off to Caliban so soon, the Dark Angels were still a Legion. He's one of the first post-Siege victims among the Primarchs. He never saw the rise of the Ecclesiarchy, either. He never took part in much if any of the actual Scouring. I don't even believe he ever experienced a Daemon Primarch for himself.

The Lion also only has three actual living sources for what went down in the centuries after Caliban: Roboute Guilliman and Bjorn the Fell-Handed - somebody with significant beef with Guilliman. And lastly, Cypher, who may or may not be Zahariel, or even Holguin.

 

There is a massive amount of baggage here - and Imperium Secundus is something the Lion was directly involved in too. It's about to blow into Guilliman's face due to Rotigus's schemes for Fabian, but it'd also affect Lion El'Jonson. There are anti-Primarch sentiments among the Imperial courts, with the High Lords trying to stage a coup already during the first few years. The Ecclesiarchy is also attempting to break the Decree Passive and militarize, while having massive problems with Guilliman only barely tolerating the Imperial Creed.

 

It's all politics. There's been talk about a potential civil war, and Imperium Secundus would be a factor in that. There's already mistrust towards Guilliman in the upper echelons. They don't know what he did with the Emperor during their alone time. There've even been voices whispering that the Emperor might have been dead. Roboute came in, started a new crusade with the help of secret projects ten millennia in the making, which could have prevented a lot of trouble in that time, had it been revealed earlier. He's been seen allying with xenos. In a way he's even responsible for the Tyranids finding our galaxy, by way of the Pharos!

There's a reason why Guilliman had forbidden people from entering the library of ptolemy and figure out about IS. It'd be very easy to use it to weaken his position and turn the Imperium on itself.

 

[Scribe]

God I hope you are right @DarkChaplain

[Emperor Ming]

Have gw forgot about the tau arks book

 

The blurf for the lion says vashtoor has all the keys

 

No no my lord you need to wait to announce that the xenos were massacred b4 it gets announced that the xenos were massacred and you took the key

Edited March 23, 2023 by Emperor Ming

[Ubiquitous1984]

39 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Have gw forgot about the tau arks book

 

The blurf for the lion says vashtoor has all the keys

 

No no my lord you need to wait to announce that the xenos were massacred b4 it gets announced that the xenos were massacred and you took the key

Book 4 is the classic ‘cool down’ match before the main event, sandwiched between Undertaker Vs Kane and Austin Vs Rock

[Felix Antipodes]

While I agree with your analysis, it is important to note that of the known allied survivors from the Heresy only the Lion and Guilliman himself are aware that Secundus even happened (as far as we know).  

 

I’m also not convinced that Roboute closed the Library of Ptolemy to hide IS.  Whatever documents that have survived the millennia would be easy to either dispose of or securely hide without raising red flags by closing it off.

 

While I think it is the the path that shouldn’t be taken, imho GW will have the two brothers do a secret handshake with the Lion taking over the running of the Crusade into Nihilus while Roboute stays on Terra to oversee the politics/logistics.  To me, this will be Wade’s baptism of fire as the new background czar and I am keen to see what he comes up with and where he takes the setting.

 

Having said that, I’d rather read the storyline as you see happening.

[Master Ciaphas]

If the Lion gets a three part trilogy akin to Roboute G.'s Dark Imperium trilogy, I hope that it will get written by French, Wraight or ABD... Thorpe, while his Luther novel was not terrible, has for far too long maligned the Dark Angels. Reading his Dark Angel trilogy - Ravenwing, Master of Sanctity and Unforgiven - was a horrible experience, and his "Purging of Kadillus" was equally dull (except for the parts with Veteran Sergeant Naaman). His very first Dark Angels novel - Angels of Darkness - was "good" for the time that it was written in...20 years ago. 

 

 

[Xin Ceithan]

I am very … anxious? … to see how they handle the return of the Lion.

 

The return of Roboute came with a lot of missed opportunities IMO (even if FW  / BL started Ton pick up the pieces  over the years it seems). 
 

And even with the whole baggage from Unremembered Empire, Roboute at least has the excuse of being practically dead the last ten thousand years going for him 

 

I’d  be interested to see how they handle the Lion being AWOL from the Imperium over the millennia ….