WH40K game Strike Force Agastus

[Bryan Blaire]

26 minutes ago, Maritn said:

 

The diameter of the body is definitely big enough to fit the missiles in their final configuration with enough room for a loading mechanism. The missiles can be held from the inside, no need for a bigger diameter.

 

Not saying this is the best design ever, just that it's  technically possible to load these small missiles.

The body of the weapon is smaller than the drum area - it may be up to 25% thinner - you can see that in the images.  The hands of the Marines on the grip barely extend beyond the body of that drum.  There’s an almost face on image of a Marine gripping the weapon, and his thumb is 95% hidden behind the drum.  It’s also very clear on the sergeant images.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[WrathOfTheLion]

That drum almost certainly rotates in how it works, the ammunition feed essentially lines up with the top of the cylinder. So that's the only way it could work without some utterly ridiculous mechanism that'd jam every two seconds.

[Maritn]

23 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

The body of the weapon is smaller than the drum area - it may be up to 25% thinner - you can see that in the images.  The hands of the Marines on the grip barely extend beyond the body of that drum.  There’s an almost face on image of a Marine gripping the weapon, and his thumb is 95% hidden behind the drum.  It’s also very clear on the sergeant images.

 

The drum is where the missiles could be loaded.

 

1: Shows the approximate maximum length (peg to peg, or whatever this is called). Otherwise these missiles wouldn't fit through the belt, they have to travel through orthorgonally.

2: Is the part where the missiles are loaded.

3: The final position, showing how deep they go into the gun.

 

Surely more than enough room for a loading mechanism, as you can see, even if these missiles were a bit longer.

 

 

[Cyrox]

Anyone played Destiny 2 and used the Wardcliff coil missile launcher?

 

Thats how I imagine the small missiles firing - all 6 at once and then another 6 slide into place via the belt ready to launch

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Cyrox

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

I think the major disconnect for me is despite there being room for a loading mechanism, having missiles sticking out of all the holes just bugs me. Like are the missiles firing one at a time and then it rotates and loads all the missiles before firing again which..is not how rotating barrels work, like if it just had 1 missile sticking out where the "3" marking is I'd be fine with that, missile fires barrel rotates.

 

I don't want to say no thought has gone into the gun, but this whole thing just screams I'm sticking this on there because I think it looks cool how it actually functions is secondary, been in the hobby since 3rd so I accept this happens a bunch but for some reason this one just makes me go nope too far. 

 

I think a beefier gun either with a shoulder or underslung design would have been better. 

[Guest Triszin]

2 hours ago, Maritn said:

 

The drum is where the missiles could be loaded.

 

1: Shows the approximate maximum length (peg to peg, or whatever this is called). Otherwise these missiles wouldn't fit through the belt, they have to travel through orthorgonally.

2: Is the part where the missiles are loaded.

3: The final position, showing how deep they go into the gun.

 

Surely more than enough room for a loading mechanism, as you can see, even if these missiles were a bit longer.

 

 

Also if the bottom is the main launch port

[Bryan Blaire]

2 hours ago, Maritn said:

 

The drum is where the missiles could be loaded.

 

1: Shows the approximate maximum length (peg to peg, or whatever this is called). Otherwise these missiles wouldn't fit through the belt, they have to travel through orthogonally.

2: Is the part where the missiles are loaded.

3: The final position, showing how deep they go into the gun.

 

Surely more than enough room for a loading mechanism, as you can see, even if these missiles were a bit longer.

So what you are saying is that GW has designed another alternate heavy bolt weapon?  Because if it’s what you are showing, then those missiles/RPGs are the same size (possibly even smaller diameter/caliber) of a heavy bolter round - which begs the question “How exactly do they do something that you couldn’t have a bolt round do?”  If it works as you have indicated, then it goes back to exactly what I was saying at the beginning about how stupid this weapon really is - why have a multi-launch weapon, when firing at a rapid pace would conceivably do the same thing, and without any over-complication regarding loading?  A heavy bolt round is already a rocket-propelled explosive that is supposed to have various priming effects, such as surface contact detonation, penetration detonation, etc. and those fire one after another from a single barrel/launch port.

 

So if these are simply the same size, rocket-launched explosives, how is it that these are all of the sudden a direct fire and indirect fire weapon with enough explosive power to blast an area and that can’t be done with what seems to be an equivalent weapon system that is already in use with Primaris Marines?  Hell, you could conceivably arc heavy bolt rounds but having them cut their propulsion off after a short period, let the bolt rounds fall, and have them do an air blast approximately two feet from the ground, and it should have the exact same indirect fire and blast capability as these apparently heavy bolt round sized “mini” missiles/RPGs.

 

I think that Cyrox may have hit on at least some of GW’s inspiration for this dumb weapon - a video game from a completely different IP.  It also shows a better loading mechanism for something that fires all its munitions at once - snapping a full load into place at a single time.

 

I’m glad that some folks like it - to me, this is Exhibit C or D of the crap of new GW weapon design.  Hopefully I can at least get something to look sensible on the table once I can get to converting these (assuming the rules are worth it, not entirely convinced of that by the rumored rules yet).

Edited February 2, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[Maritn]

I didn't say it's my favourite weapon design or that this design was necessary, just that it's possible to load the mini missiles, which is what some were denying. I'm completely fine with people disliking the design.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

So what you are saying is that GW has designed another alternate heavy bolt weapon?  Because if it’s what you are showing, then those missiles/RPGs are the same size (possibly even smaller diameter/caliber) of a heavy bolter round - which begs the question “How exactly do they do something that you couldn’t have a bolt round do?”  If it works as you have indicated, then it goes back to exactly what I was saying at the beginning about how stupid this weapon really is - why have a multi-launch weapon, when firing at a rapid pace would conceivably do the same thing, and without any over-complication regarding loading?  A heavy bolt round is already a rocket-propelled explosive that is supposed to have various priming effects, such as surface contact detonation, penetration detonation, etc. and those fire one after another from a single barrel/launch port.

 

So if these are simply the same size, rocket-launched explosives, how is it that these are all of the sudden a direct fire and indirect fire weapon with enough explosive power to blast an area and that can’t be done with what seems to be an equivalent weapon system that is already in use with Primaris Marines?  Hell, you could conceivably arc heavy bolt rounds but having them cut their propulsion off after a short period, let the bolt rounds fall, and have them do an air blast approximately two feet from the ground, and it should have the exact same indirect fire and blast capability as these apparently heavy bolt round sized “mini” missiles/RPGs.

 

I think that Cyrox may have hit on at least some of GW’s inspiration for this dumb weapon - a video game from a completely different IP.  It also shows a better loading mechanism for something that fires all its munitions at once - snapping a full load into place at a single time.

 

I’m glad that some folks like it - to me, this is Exhibit C or D of the crap of new GW weapon design.  Hopefully I can at least get something to look sensible on the table once I can get to converting these (assuming the rules are worth it, not entirely convinced of that by the rumored rules yet).

What are exhibits A and B then?

6 minutes ago, Maritn said:

I didn't say it's my favourite weapon design or that this design was necessary, just that it's possible to load the mini missiles, which is what some were denying. I'm completely fine with people disliking the design.  

I haven’t seen anyone say it would be impossible just that it doesn’t make sense.

a belt feed on a system that has all of the barrels start off loaded just doesn’t make any sense at all.

[Bryan Blaire]

19 minutes ago, Maritn said:

I didn't say it's my favourite weapon design or that this design was necessary, just that it's possible to load the mini missiles, which is what some were denying. I'm completely fine with people disliking the design.  

And that’s why I said it is only part of the problem with the weapon - if it works one way, it’s stupid, if it works another way, then something else doesn’t work, etc.  Taken as a whole, it’s a poor design and ultimately a retread of an already existing weapon, just with some different rules, because someone thought “This looks cool!” (which it doesn’t).

 

I still think that your proposed process requires more than is necessary - you’d have to have a mechanism to push/pull the mini-missile into a separate launch tube from a central loading tube running from the main weapon body (which requires space for the mechanism to fit in, and rotate around itself, if the drum doesn’t rotate), which itself has a mechanism pushing the missile from the belt feed into the drum area, and then a separate mechanism to push the missile thing all the way forward so that it’s tip is sticking out, or it has to be some kind of snaky/flexible internal mechadendrite that can do all/parts of that, and then there has to be some way to seal the tube and/or channel the blast away from those mechanisms so they don’t get damaged.

 

All of that begs the question “Why?”

 

(Especially the part about the tips of the mini-missiles sticking out of the launch tubes, like Mechanicus Tech-Support said, that may be one of the things that really bugs me about this if the mini-missiles really are that short.)

Edited February 2, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[jaxom]

41 minutes ago, Bryan Blaire said:

which begs the question “How exactly do they do something that you couldn’t have a bolt round do?”  If it works as you have indicated, then it goes back to exactly what I was saying at the beginning about how stupid this weapon really is - why have a multi-launch weapon, when firing at a rapid pace would conceivably do the same thing, and without any over-complication regarding loading?  A heavy bolt round is already a rocket-propelled explosive that is supposed to have various priming effects, such as surface contact detonation, penetration detonation, etc. and those fire one after another from a single barrel/launch port.

 

So if these are simply the same size, rocket-launched explosives, how is it that these are all of the sudden a direct fire and indirect fire weapon with enough explosive power to blast an area and that can’t be done with what seems to be an equivalent weapon system that is already in use with Primaris Marines?  Hell, you could conceivably arc heavy bolt rounds but having them cut their propulsion off after a short period, let the bolt rounds fall, and have them do an air blast approximately two feet from the ground, and it should have the exact same indirect fire and blast capability as these apparently heavy bolt round sized “mini” missiles/RPGs.

I think you may have answered your own question. The new system is basically a way to fire Metal Storm bolter rounds and arc them before airbursting, rather than airbursting on a linear path to the target. And having written airbursting twice, I'm now wondering if Cawl took inspiration from the T'au Airbursting Fragmentation Projector.

[Bryan Blaire]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

I think you may have answered your own question. The new system is basically a way to fire Metal Storm bolter rounds and arc them before airbursting, rather than airbursting on a linear path to the target. And having written airbursting twice, I'm now wondering if Cawl took inspiration from the T'au Airbursting Fragmentation Projector.

Yep, such an easy thing to do for the Primaris - add that firing capability to the Heavy Bolter.  Done.  Now it looks good.

 

Then we can focus on designing a nice updated missile launcher, if that is really needed…

 

No need for a poorly designed and poor looking weapon - i.e. the answer to “Why?” is that there was no reason why.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[Lemondish]

5 hours ago, Cyrox said:

Anyone played Destiny 2 and used the Wardcliff coil missile launcher?

 

Thats how I imagine the small missiles firing - all 6 at once and then another 6 slide into place via the belt ready to launch

 

 

1000% this.

[Taliesin]

The Brutalis Dreadnought looks excellent. Handing out unnecessarily firm handshakes indeed.

[dickyelsdon]

17 hours ago, Bryan Blaire said:

...

I still think that your proposed process requires more than is necessary - you’d have to have a mechanism to push/pull the mini-missile into a separate launch tube from a central loading tube running from the main weapon body (which requires space for the mechanism to fit in, and rotate around itself, if the drum doesn’t rotate), which itself has a mechanism pushing the missile from the belt feed into the drum area, and then a separate mechanism to push the missile thing all the way forward so that it’s tip is sticking out, or it has to be some kind of snaky/flexible internal mechadendrite that can do all/parts of that, and then there has to be some way to seal the tube and/or channel the blast away from those mechanisms so they don’t get damaged.

 

All of that begs the question “Why?”

 

(Especially the part about the tips of the mini-missiles sticking out of the launch tubes, like Mechanicus Tech-Support said, that may be one of the things that really bugs me about this if the mini-missiles really are that short.)

 

Its basically a Cyclone missile launcher, but with the ability to reload without a terminator having to kneel down and have a servitor fit a new ammo pack.

 

but think people will have fun converting them to look different (keen to see an underslung super-missile bit variant) I dont mind them, has a 'mobile tactical support at a distance' vibe, rather than 'close support in thick of it' vibe that aggressors and the like have. 

[bigtrouble]

The dreadnought is great, I love punchy robots, but the guns in guns guys are flat out stupid looking. Really poor design.

[Bryan Blaire]

Never mind - not worth it.

 

Happy for folks that somehow think this thing is cool.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Bryan Blaire

[FarFromSam]

So ugly.  Thank the Emperor for 3rd party bits, and 3d printing. 

[beefeb]

Why didnt they just give them missile launchers?   They are perfectly fine in previous incanations....they look the part, are practical and are well accepted by all in the community....why did they try to reinvent the wheel.....theyve come up with a far inferior design.

 

 

Edit.....Im actually dreading the new edition being launched this year.  If these are an example of the direction that primaris are going, I am steering away from it.  Hopefully there arent monopose (or any tbh) versions of these in the 10th edition boxset!

Edited February 4, 2023 by beefeb

[Richard S. Ta]

I'm in the minority I know, but I really like the new weapons... rule of cool beats out logic for me, especially in 40K. 

 

YMMV on what defines 'cool' of course. Each to their own. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like them too .

[Lemondish]

1 hour ago, Richard S. Ta said:

I'm in the minority I know, but I really like the new weapons... rule of cool beats out logic for me, especially in 40K. 

 

YMMV on what defines 'cool' of course. Each to their own. 

Completely agree, both on the YMMV disclaimer and these guys being cool as hell. I cannot wait to grab em.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Richard S. Ta said:

I'm in the minority I know, but I really like the new weapons... rule of cool beats out logic for me, especially in 40K. 

 

YMMV on what defines 'cool' of course. Each to their own. 

Rule of cool wins for everyone in 40K because most of it is just super unrealistic.

people only criticize how things would work when the design falls below the bar of cool for them.

[lansalt]

Some designs just fail the suspension of belief test when the setting or faction has already stablished certain standards. For all the unrealistic things in 40k, there's definitely a lot of  unwritten rules about how things are suppossed to look and feel. Designers trying to innovate do so at their own peril, risking falling short aesthetically, functionally, or both (like in the case of Desolators).

Edited February 4, 2023 by lansalt

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Richard S. Ta said:

I'm in the minority I know, but I really like the new weapons... rule of cool beats out logic for me, especially in 40K. 

 

You are not necessarily in a minority, people who are unhappy tend to complain more loudly than happy people compliment, These are a bit like Centurions, GW have tried to do something a bit different from expectations and the results have somewhat polarised people. Taste is a personal thing so there is no right or wrong. They look a bit "busy" for my tastes but I think I will wait until I see them in the flesh before making up my mind.