WH40K game Strike Force Agastus

[Triszin]

36 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

RIP the Redemptor there... claws all the way AND twin MM for 4 guaranteed shots that are superior to the Plasma...

 

I might get me one.

If only the brutalis had a shield dome option

[Khornestar]

2 minutes ago, Triszin said:

If only the brutalis had a shield dome option

 

With the proper amount of faith in the god-emperor, you too could have a 5++.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Khornestar

[Gundric]

Oh well, gonna go ahead and see if the horus heresy weapon upgrades kit fits on intercessor bodies then. I do like the look of the dread with dual multi meltas for my Black Templars though.

[Jukkiz]

1 hour ago, Gundric said:

Oh well, gonna go ahead and see if the horus heresy weapon upgrades kit fits on intercessor bodies then. I do like the look of the dread with dual multi meltas for my Black Templars though.

if devastator weapons work, i´m quite sure that any special/heavy weapon could work from HH lineup. They come with matching arms, though those are MK.6 ones

[FarFromSam]

After giving it time to stew.  And looking over the rest of the 40k primaris line.  I tried to imagine what they'll look like next to each other, and I believe they'll fit right in.   If you had a unit of 5 desolators sitting above the grav tank that is sporting 10+ stubbers and twinlinked weapons.  A mk x guy toting around a gun the size of a real marine won't look so out of place. 

 

And I think that's where the disappointment comes from.  Many basic primaris on foot look great.   Not the Christmas Story waddle gravis guys, but the bladeguard vets, hellblasters, redemptors look like a well done upscaling of real marines.  So, to have a unit that should be an easy home run appear to miss the mark stands out even more.   

 

But that's not the case.  They didn't miss the mark.  They have successfully made another unit right in line with the majority of other primaris units.  A model with a silhouette and name that is trademarkable, and requires a separate kit.  

 

Personally. I believe the desolators aren't even the worst looking models.   There are so many contenders for that accolade that in time they'll get looked over.  I'll stick to converting moritats into inceptors.  I imagine a Heavy bolter on a watcher in the dark with a ML  on his other shoulder will look better.  But that's my silly brain. 

[Khornestar]

Great comparison of the brutalis to the redemptor here from Auspex Tactics:

 

 

[de Selby]

I'm hoping they're saving the good-looking primaris models for the next starter set, as I'll probably be getting one anyway.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Khornestar said:

It just seems so much better. I guess the Redemptor has a little more range with the plasma, and that isn’t insignificant, but otherwise does it have a single advantage over the brutalis? Overcharge for S9? D3 extra shots at S7 from the rocket launcher? Potentially slightly better anti horde shooting if you combine the two heavy/onslaught gatling cannons? And even then… so what? There are gonna be bolters in the army elsewhere.

 

I’m not salty exactly, I have 2 redemptors with my BT and I’ll likely get a brutalis, but a multimelta talon build is pretty slick.

 

[Orange Knight]

I wouldn't be surprised if the weapon profiles for the Redemptor guns get a glow up in the next codex.

 

The Plasma could become Heavy 6 instead of Heavy D6

 

The Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon could become damage 2.

 

These are the kind of upgrades needed to make the units more evenly balanced. This way the Brutalis will still remain as the best option for close combat.

I agree that as it stands the Brutalis will be the best Dreadnought, and that includes comparisons to the more exotic variants like the Leviathan. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

24 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the weapon profiles for the Redemptor guns get a glow up in the next codex.

 

The Plasma could become Heavy 6 instead of Heavy D6

 

The Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon could become damage 2.

 

These are the kind of upgrades needed to make the units more evenly balanced. This way the Brutalis will still remain as the best option for close combat.

I agree that as it stands the Brutalis will be the best Dreadnought, and that includes comparisons to the more exotic variants like the Leviathan. 

Brutalis is best for melee, but if you want to destroy a potential melee threat to your dread before they can get into charge range, redemptor with macro-plasma is still better.

[jimbo1701]

It will be star of the show for a few months then 10th Ed and new marine dex will drop and the playing field will be leveled. As others say I suspect the more random elements (shots / damage) on heavy weapons will become less random. 

[Casual Heresy]

44 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the weapon profiles for the Redemptor guns get a glow up in the next codex.

 

The Plasma could become Heavy 6 instead of Heavy D6

 

The Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon could become damage 2.

 

These are the kind of upgrades needed to make the units more evenly balanced. This way the Brutalis will still remain as the best option for close combat.

I agree that as it stands the Brutalis will be the best Dreadnought, and that includes comparisons to the more exotic variants like the Leviathan. 

Even d3+3 for the plasma shots would be an improvement. 
 

I’d be happy for the Redemptor to end up as a mid-way choice between the close range Brutalis and a future DAKKA-heavy ranged Redemptor variant. 

[FarFromSam]

Remember, the macro plasma is a blast weapon, and is not generating a random number of shots.  Having 6 shots on one model wouldn't make much sense.

[Mandragola]

The redemptor also has much more dakka. It's got the cannon on its fist and the icarus missiles. Also, we don't know the cost of the new one do we? It could (and probably should) cost more.

 

There is of course the "why not both?" argument. Redemptors have remained one of the few consistently good units throughout 9th. Up to now we've had a limit of three dreads but now in theory we could take six.

[Orange Knight]

Does it have "much more" dakka?

 

Because the Brutalis can have 20 str 4 shots and 4 Multi Melta shots.

[Karhedron]

38 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Does it have "much more" dakka?

 

Because the Brutalis can have 20 str 4 shots and 4 Multi Melta shots.

 

I am not sure about much more dakka. The HOGC and OGC are better quality dakka than bolters and heavy stubbers. Actually the Redemptor also has a pair of torso-mounted Stormbolters. It also has the missile pod so it has quite a lot of mid-strength firepower. The Brutalis has S4 and S8 with nowt in between.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah the Brutalis firepower is better at anti-tank and only marginally weaker at anti-infantry, which bolters are pretty useful for anyway.

 

Right now the Redemptor is pretty weak in comparison (and it finds its way into competitive lists so imagine that!) so without a decent boost in potential in another Codex it will really struggle. (New editions not withstanding)

 

Points will likely see Redemptors going down in comparison, surely?

 

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

The Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon could become damage 2.

 

Well it would need less shots in that case as I'm sure we can all appreciate the weapon would become the go to anti-tank as well for the Redemptor compared to Plasma.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

16 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

I am not sure about much more dakka. The HOGC and OGC are better quality dakka than bolters and heavy stubbers. Actually the Redemptor also has a pair of torso-mounted Stormbolters. It also has the missile pod so it has quite a lot of mid-strength firepower. The Brutalis has S4 and S8 with nowt in between.

It can have S5 with HBs

[Karhedron]

Interesting thoughts on improving the Redemptor's weapons but we have consider what would happen. If the MPC got buffed to Heavy6, it would be only slightly weaker than the Plasma Decimator on the Knight Castellan which has the same stats but is Heavy 2D6. Making the HOGC D2 would also make it almost as strong as the Avenger Gatling Cannon (which is AP-2 instead).

[Orange Knight]

Fair. Heavy 6 might be too strong.

 

Heavy 2D3 or Heavy D3+3 would also be a decent boost. A weapon like the Plasma should never only fire a single shot, it's simply too random as it is.

 

As for the Heavy Onslaught - Heavy 8 with Damage 2 would make it better than two Heavy Bolters, but it doesn't exactly set the world on fire. I think Heavy 12 isn't too unreasonable. 

[FarFromSam]

I believe it used to be 12 str 5, -1, d1 shots.  I kit bashed 4 h.bolters since the stats were the same.

[Toldavf]

4 MM is allot of ranged fire for a melee dread, Honestly just seems like a maulerfiend but much better 

 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It's tough to say what they would need to do with the Redemptor until we now how much the Brutalis costs point wise. Depending on the difference the redemptor may need buff or may even be the more efficient option.

[quasistellar]

On 1/29/2023 at 5:48 AM, Khornestar said:

Furioso comes to mind, and the rumored rules for this dread have the claws being much better than the fists. Gotta track ‘em down to give the numbers…

 

*edit*
 

Here we go, via Tactical Tortoise on YouTube:

 

 

Seems more than worth trading bolt rifles for that talon profile.

 

Definitely seems like a no-brainer.  I wouldn't even take regular Redemptor over a Brutalis with multi-meltas.

 

As for the Missile Marines, I think if the squad is worth taking, I'd 100% have to convert something with Aggressors or Heavy Intercessors.  Put the big tubes over the shoulders where the fragstorm launchers should be and mount the rotary missiles to one hand or something.  IDK.   Anything but what the original looks like.  Man, they just keep getting worse every time I go back to see if I can save them :(

Edited January 30, 2023 by quasistellar

[Stupidity]

Oh hey! They aren't maxed at 3 bodies. That makes them much more interesting to me.