WH40k game 10th Edition Space Marine Boxset Rumours

[wargamerAndy]

 Made a account just to say that these rumors sound too good to be true.

Edited March 8, 2023 by wargamerAndy

[WARMASTER_]

1 hour ago, wargamerAndy said:

 Made a account just to say that these rumors sound too good to be true.

If it was from anyone else I’d agree 

 

also hello and welcome 

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, wargamerAndy said:

 Made a account just to say that these rumors sound too good to be true.

 

Believe my friend. The Emperor will provide.

 

Of course they could all be false. I think that at some point, close to release, the rumours start to become pretty reliable.

 

I was expecting Assault Marine Primaris, and would have happily skipped the new starter set. But Primaris Terminators? My interest is definitely piqued. 

[WARMASTER_]

 

5 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

But Primaris Terminators? My interest is definitely piqued.

Don’t forget the rumour is Firstborn Re-Sculpts, that’s all he’s said concrete it’s currently just noise and speculation saying  Primaris

[WrathOfTheLion]

15 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

 

Don’t forget the rumour is Firstborn Re-Sculpts, that’s all he’s said concrete it’s currently just noise and speculation saying  Primaris

I think either way if they are Terminators, most people won't care what they are, they'll be cool.

[Orange Knight]

20 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

 

Don’t forget the rumour is Firstborn Re-Sculpts, that’s all he’s said concrete it’s currently just noise and speculation saying  Primaris

 

This is not the latest rumour at all. I think people are getting confused with what has been said.

 

The latest time this was spoken about, the unit was described as being faithful to the classic Terminator look, but that they are significantly bigger.

 

Shortly before that a rumour came about that 10th will see the removal of the Primaris keyword from whatever form the datasheets take in the new edition.

 

Prior to that rumour, Valrak stated that he believed these could be upscaled "Firstborn" units, but has since stated that this was his personal guess that came about from first hearing about the unit.

 

The concrete rumour is that new Terminators are coming. The Firstborn or Primaris lable is the guesswork. 

 

I'm of the opinion that the pattern established over the past 5 years will mean that the new unit is indeed Primaris, even if that distinction exists only in the lore. I have no doubt that the models could be very true to the old design, but that doesn't indicate anything. The entire Black Templar refresh range is extremely true to the classic design philosophy and artwork of the faction, but is entirely Primaris.

[WARMASTER_]

7 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I think either way if they are Terminators, most people won't care what they are, they'll be cool.

I’m really hoping for some classic OG upscaled Indomitus armour

 

That said they’ll please a good portion of the newer player base [And likely older] with Primaris terminators I’m sure 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Someone got confused with new 30k terminators in Indomnitus plate.

Edited March 9, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Orange Knight]

3 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Someone got confused with a new 30k terminators in Indomnitus plate.

 

This is also entirely possible! There is definitely a case of wires getting crossed if all these rumors have a basis in truth.

 

I would like to comment that the reveal of the Tyranid half of the box seemed very precise. I find it a bit odd that the contents have apparently been sighted and accounted for, but the details and unit descriptions of the Marine half are so vague.

 

I only need to glance at a unit for 10 seconds in order to be able to write several paragraphs that describe it.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Alternis]

9 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

This is not the latest rumour at all. I think people are getting confused with what has been said.

 

The latest time this was spoken about, the unit was described as being faithful to the classic Terminator look, but that they are significantly bigger.

 

Shortly before that a rumour came about that 10th will see the removal of the Primaris keyword from whatever form the datasheets take in the new edition.

 

Prior to that rumour, Valrak stated that he believed these could be upscaled "Firstborn" units, but has since stated that this was his personal guess that came about from first hearing about the unit.

 

The concrete rumour is that new Terminators are coming. The Firstborn or Primaris lable is the guesswork. 

 

I'm of the opinion that the pattern established over the past 5 years will mean that the new unit is indeed Primaris, even if that distinction exists only in the lore. I have no doubt that the models could be very true to the old design, but that doesn't indicate anything. The entire Black Templar refresh range is extremely true to the classic design philosophy and artwork of the faction, but is entirely Primaris.

My take on this is, we are full swing into the Indomitus crusade, the first part of it which was the entirety of 9th was Guilliman reinforcing the chapters, and converting the entire Astartes line to cross the rubicon which by all effect has happened. 

 

10th is moving things forward, everyone has gone primaris now, there is no more first born, Guilliman has brought progress and evolution to the stagnant imperium (well, Astartes wise anyway) I think that would be the reason the Primaris keyword is gone now, there is no distinction between first born and primaris except detached factions like grey knights because to mess with their genetic code is outright heresy as that’s the emperors genes, (no touchy!)

 

getting back to the main point, it stands to reason Cawl would have found a way to redesign terminator armour to fit Primaris marines now.

The thing about Cawl, Admech and the Imperium is, it’s incredibly rare and difficult for them to create/invent new technology so they are basically improving existing tech to fit the purpose. 
 

Bolter > Bolter Rifle

First Born > Primaris

Frag/Krak > Super Frag/Krak

Dreadnought > Redemptor Dreadnought

Terminator Armour > Whatever they call it now. 
 

The only brand new tech that’s been invented (or should I say converted from Aeldari tech) is Repulsor Technology.

[WARMASTER_]

 

1 minute ago, Orange Knight said:

This is not the latest rumour at all. I think people are getting confused with what has been said.

 

The latest time this was spoken about, the unit was described as being faithful to the classic Terminator look, but that they are significantly bigger.

You’ve lost me here you’re just agreeing with what I said?? I’m not confused about what’s been said at all I’ve seen the video… The only concrete rumour we have is from Valrak and all he’s stated is the models are Indomitus but bigger “chonkier” like the Chaos terminator update… that’s it

 

10 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm of the opinion that the pattern established over the past 5 years will mean that the new unit is indeed Primaris, even if that distinction exists only in the lore. I have no doubt that the models could be very true to the old design, but that doesn't indicate anything. The entire Black Templar refresh range is extremely true to the classic design philosophy and artwork of the faction, but is entirely Primaris.

This is assumption too and not part of the rumour which is where most of the confusion is actually coming from, people are assuming Rules + lore wise they’ll be Primaris then thinking it’ll translate in “Primaris Terminator models” rather than just re sculpts of classic Indomitus armour which hasn’t been said 

 

[TheWarmaster]

Why is there talk of Primaris Scouts when they have Reivers and Infiltrators and Incursors? They don't need Scouts.. they have them already and they're better. 

 

(Not a Primaris fan, but they do have 'better than' Scouts already!)

[Orange Knight]

I'm saying I don't believe for a second that the unit will be "Firstborn"

 

The lore is moving on. The most elite warriors of a chapter cannot be the most elite if others around them are superior physical specimens.

 

Of course I could be wrong. GW could pull something crazy and break the pattern they have established over the last 5 years. 

[Captain Idaho]

Primaris themselves were a departure of "the pattern" so it's possible, but I doubt very much there will be Firstborn in 40K, ever again.

 

I think GW wants distinctive games and 30K and 40K are having less and less cross overs for the majority of players who are getting into Primaris.

 

40K is getting more and more closer to AoS in theme the way I see it. It feels like 40K and AoS are the cleaner, corporate gloss face of the company and the grittier and niche games are included for the likes of the veteran gamer. Horus Heresy going plastic really is something that supports that.

[WrathOfTheLion]

As long as model-wise they're a reasonably faithful update of Terminator armor, they can call them whatever they want.

[WARMASTER_]

6 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm saying I don't believe for a second that the unit will be "Firstborn"

 

The lore is moving on. The most elite warriors of a chapter cannot be the most elite if others around them are superior physical specimens.

 

Of course I could be wrong. GW could pull something crazy and break the pattern they have established over the last 5 years. 

I never made a lore or rules definition though? Why would I? the summary i gave was for the sculpts which is solely what the rumour is based on. this is where the confusion in coming from… Valraks said he has no idea on the rules or lore of these

 

Lore wise veteran space marines have bested Primaris many times, sheer physicality can’t always account for centuries more experience or just sheer skill at arms 

 

The most obvious answer as to why they’d redo the Indomitus Terminators is simple…. money! they’re super popular with almost every space marine player of a certain age so they’re leaving easy cash on the table not making the kit 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by WARMASTER_

[Orange Knight]

6 hours ago, WARMASTER_ said:

 

Lore wise veteran space marines have bested Primaris many times, sheer physicality can’t always account for centuries more experience or just sheer skill at arms 

 

 

 

It has indeed happened, but not many times. There are also instances of Primaris marines besting veterans with centuries of experience. 

 

Keep in mind that many of the best veterans are now Primaris. Azrael, Mephiston, Calgar, etc.

 

We also don't know if the new Terminators armour really is just a size increase. MkX Tacticus armour is new but is also very faithful to older Marks of power armour. These new Terminator could have many design element that ate faithful to the past, but with many subtle changes too. As I've said in another topic, I'm surprised their description is so vague if people have indeed seem them.

[Blindhamster]

For what it’s worth, the image valrak shared and suggested might be how the terminators looked was the one from the new black Templar animation which were primaris marines and the terminator scaled approximately to them. It looked very classic indomitus for the most part, but was proportioned much better and the  head height etc was roughly aligned with the primaris marines

[WARMASTER_]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

 

It has indeed happened, but not many times. There are also instances of Primaris marines besting veterans with centuries of experience. 

 

Keep in mind that many of the best veterans are now Primaris. Azrael, Mephiston, Calgar, etc.

 

We also don't know if the new Terminators armour really is just a size increase. MkX Tacticus armour is new but is also very faithful to older Marks of power armour. These new Terminator could have many design element that ate faithful to the past, but with many subtle changes too. As I've said in another topic, I'm surprised their description is so vague if people have indeed seem them.

That doesn’t mean that a large portion of the veterans won’t still be Firstborn which was your point 

 

Know we don’t, agreed but again you’re just assuming they’re Primaris which isn’t the rumour, the description wasn’t vague it was pretty clear they’re just Indomitus Terminators but up scaled up to match the current terminator size [Chaos Terminators] etc 

 

Were going in circles here now so I guess we’ll just see when they preview the box 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by WARMASTER_

[Halandaar]

19 hours ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

Personally, something Valrak said makes sense to me; the jump assault and jump character vs Tyranids in the Autumn to coincide with SMII release makes a lot of sense to me.

 

It would be a good tie-in, but not sure how likely it is to happen. GW model production and release schedules are planned a long way in advance and I doubt they'd want to attach a key product launch to a notoriously delay-prone outside industry like video game development. Equally, I don't want Saber being pushed to release SM2 on a given date just to line up with a GW product launch; we've seen far too many games pushed out recently in a pretty shocking state, I could do without this one joining that group as well!

 

The only model that "needs" to release in the same timeframe as SM2 is Titus, presuming they've done a model for him (I'd be surprised if they haven't given they appear to be increasing these sort of things, see Minka Lesk) - everything else could just come out as intended and he could be a splash release in the week the game comes out.

 

Separate point, maybe the reason we've not seen much SM2 gameplay is because it would reveal stuff about new Tyranids that GW isn't ready for us to see yet. Given how closely they worked with CA on Total War it wouldn't be unrealistic for Saber to be working off of new designs for the Tyranids.

 

[Trevius]

I see that sometimes we fall in the error of thinking that the miniature releases follow the lore when it’s the other way around. GW is a plastic seller, and they’ve been revamping their classic units as Primaris equivalents for the last years. 

We can see now how they are just releasing newer versions of classic Dreadnought units (multi purpose, close combat, long range, etc).

 

What I mean is that we’ll probably see new scouts sometime in the future, as they have been releasing new versions of the dreadnoughts, space marine units, etc. It does seem logical they loose the Primaris keyword in the next edition, as primaris was always a lore-made excuse to renew the Space Marine catalogue. The new models and the old ones will coexist during one or to editions, and when all the range is actualized they’ll send the old ones to Legends, because it is what makes sense as a miniature selling company.

 

As of me, I just want new termies and jump units.

[StrangerOrders]

If they are adamant on wholesale conversion, I hope they have the sense of reversing that goofy 'Redemptors kill pilots' nonsense. It breaks half the fun and concept of a dreadnought for them to burn through pilots, its also moronic to the space marine concept as a whole in 40k.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

35 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

… we don’t agreed but again you’re just assuming they’re Primaris which isn’t the rumour, the description wasn’t vague it was pretty clear they’re just Indomitus Terminators but up scaled up to match the current terminator size [Chaos Terminators] etc 

 

 

It’d make sense they scale up terminators for 30k to be in line with their new plastic space marines.

Edited March 9, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Orange Knight]

8 minutes ago, StrangerOrders said:

If they are adamant on wholesale conversion, I hope they have the sense of reversing that goofy 'Redemptors kill pilots' nonsense. It breaks half the fun and concept of a dreadnought for them to burn through pilots, its also moronic to the space marine concept as a whole in 40k.

 

I'm torn on this lore.

 

It initially seems wrong to simply burn through venerable heroes that have fallen in combat this way, but it's very grim dark so it does fit the setting.

 

Also, if you think about it, it's probably a mercy for these Marines to be spared from being trapped in a Dreadnought indefinitely. Even Bjorn is starting to lose his mind after millennia of existing this way.

[Orange Knight]

44 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

That doesn’t mean that a large portion of the veterans won’t still wont he Firstborn which was your point 

 

Know we don’t agreed but again you’re just assuming they’re Primaris which isn’t the rumour, the description wasn’t vague it was pretty clear they’re just Indomitus Terminators but up scaled up to match the current terminator size [Chaos Terminators] etc 

 

Were going in circles here now so I guess we’ll just see when they preview the box 

 

 

 

But what is the reason for them not to be? Is it lore related or is it simply a case of GW not having updated all the models yet?

 

From a lore point of view, decades into the new setting, chapters that have access to and embraced Primaris, whose Chapter Masters have now crossed the Rubicon, would be transitioning to entire forces of upgraded Astartes.