Horus Heresy Siege of Cthonia

[OttoVonAwesome]

20 minutes ago, Mr Farson said:

It's absolutely worthless on tacticals, pinning is alway used on higher priority targets.

 

Add in the wargear restriction on the unit combined with the loss of heart of the Legion and the requirement to target the nearest enemy unit. You end up with a unit that's going to run away a lot that can easily be kited by a clever opponent putting something the Squad can't harm nearby. It's an absolute downgrade compared to a standard Tactical Squad. 

I dunno I'm still gonna advocate for them but I'm kind of all about rotor cannons, snipers, and despoilers so to me they are slightly better at slowing me down than the Death Guard ones. Are they restricted from Sharpnel bolters or just Artificer armour? If no Shrapnel then ok that's pretty crap.

[Misterduch]

The Salamander one is nice, makes me think the Inductii are gonna be the way to go for me instead of despoilers for the non comp troops. No AA sucks a bit but a despoiler sgt with a fist or smth will perform decently well at WS5 rerolling 1's.

 

BA and IW seem like the weakest of the bunch to me atm.

 

Fluff wise these are all weird tough. Like, Dark Angels equipping their freshest recruits with volkites while their trained line troops get stuck with bolters is funny.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Misterduch

[SkimaskMohawk]

38 minutes ago, Mr Farson said:

It's absolutely worthless on tacticals, pinning is alway used on higher priority targets.

 

Add in the wargear restriction on the unit combined with the loss of heart of the Legion and the requirement to target the nearest enemy unit. You end up with a unit that's going to run away a lot that can easily be kited by a clever opponent putting something the Squad can't harm nearby. It's an absolute downgrade compared to a standard Tactical Squad. 

 

Eh, pinning turns off scoring and denial, so ignoring it on an objective holding unit isn't the worst thing.

 

In general there's a lot interesting, compelling units for the legions. But ya, some are better than others lol.

Edited May 20, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Slips]

25 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

That's good. I do think these guys are more for like large games where you've already spent your good slots and you still have to wiegh them against special weapons support squads. They do all seem fun to use though well most of them. Ravenguard retreating from pinning seems to defeat the purpose of being immune to it and Alpha Legion well... Do you really want to target tactical guys on turn 1? That one is only good if they are the only thing that can be targeted.

 

There are a few I find tactically interesting though, Dark Angels clear winner just a better Volkite support squad, Space Wolves chain axes shields and hail mary charges that could be really useful and they keep spite from whats written here, Word Bearers mini possessed that keep spite pretty good to me, and finally Sons of Horus could make a really good bodyguard especially if your facing Brutal weapons bodies beats elite profiles.

If you take the AL Inductii and your opponent takes Inductii that are forced to attack the nearest enemy (such as the IW), you could place the AL ones pretty close to those IW inductii and, during the first turn, be unable to get shot at by them. Depending on the wording this might stop any/all nearby IW inductii from even shooting for that turn.

 

If you had a means of infiltrating them, you could, for example, plonk them onto an objective in your opponents deployment zone (if for whatever reason there wasnt something placed there during deployment) or aggressively forward onto a no-mans-land obj and just immediately control it for at least one turn. With Progressive scoring being a thing in the books missions, it seems like a good way to get a head start on an otherwise disposable unit.

 

3 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Eh, pinning turns off scoring and denial, so ignoring it on an objective holding unit isn't the worst thing.

Yeah, if you can pin and stop units from scoring objectives I dont see how being immune to that is a bad thing.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Slips

[Mr Farson]

43 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Eh, pinning turns off scoring and denial, so ignoring it on an objective holding unit isn't the worst thing.

 

In general there's a lot interesting, compelling units for the legions. But ya, some are better than others lol.

 

 

Or you could just force a unit to fall back instead with via leadership test which can be achieved from more common shooting 

 

The only situation I could see this unit as useful is in a mirror match vs iron warriors who've also loaded up with Shrapnel weapons.

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

3 hours ago, Joe said:

The rules were posted on Crusade & Heresy as well.

 

 

Hum not bad...but I expected a bit more, not only one unit type for Inductii. 

I think I'm going yo order more chain axes...

[SkimaskMohawk]

8 minutes ago, Mr Farson said:

 

 

Or you could just force a unit to fall back instead with via leadership test which can be achieved from more common shooting 

 

The only situation I could see this unit as useful is in a mirror match vs iron warriors who've also loaded up with Shrapnel weapons.

 

 

You get one chance to make a unit fall back a turn; you get as many pinning chances as you have units with pinning weapons. My night lords have a solid 6 without curze's area of affect pinning, and word bearers can leverage a whole lot of pinning with warpfire and fear units.

[Squark]

3 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

That's good. I do think these guys are more for like large games where you've already spent your good slots and you still have to wiegh them against special weapons support squads. They do all seem fun to use though well most of them. Ravenguard retreating from pinning seems to defeat the purpose of being immune to it and Alpha Legion well... Do you really want to target tactical guys on turn 1? That one is only good if they are the only thing that can be targeted.

 

There are a few I find tactically interesting though, Dark Angels clear winner just a better Volkite support squad.

I mean, volkite charger support squads are woefully overpriced, so that's not impressive on its own. DA inductii do look interesting if you're not locked out of them by one of their rites of war.

[arnesh88]

Part of me hates that the salamanders inductii are despoilers, because making despoilers aren’t cheap.

 

Rules-wise, they seem pretty solid. Giving up Spite for reroll 1s seems like a good trade if there are no conditions that the spoiler forgot to mention. Getting Spite to trigger is pretty hard to do for the legion without going out of our way. And they still keep HotL. If I had to pick which of the special weapons to take, I’d probably go meltagun. Flamers just seem to do more of what they’re already good at, with the meltagun helping pop shots vs elite infantry, if it’s safe.

[Sky Potato]

7 hours ago, Mr Farson said:

Absolute dross and worse than a standard tac squad 

I know I’m cherry picking a quote slightly. But is this not ENTIRELY the point of Inductii? Mass recruited, rushed through training, poorly indoctrinated etc.

 

They’re supposed to be worse than a Legion Tactical or Despoiler squad.

 

 

[DesuVult]

8 minutes ago, Sky Potato said:

I know I’m cherry picking a quote slightly. But is this not ENTIRELY the point of Inductii? Mass recruited, rushed through training, poorly indoctrinated etc.

 

They’re supposed to be worse than a Legion Tactical or Despoiler squad.

 

 

Then cost less.  Don't be a direct downgrade while costing the same at the same time other legions are getting sidegrades.

[SalamandersBro]

Was it said how much the Inductii squads cost point wise?

[Bung]

1 hour ago, SalamandersBro said:

Was it said how much the Inductii squads cost point wise?

 

They stay at the same points as the Standard Squads, you Just Change some Special Rules, wargear, etc.

[ShadowCore67]

7 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

There are a few I find tactically interesting though, Dark Angels clear winner just a better Volkite support squad

 

The Dark Angels losing their hexagrammaton option isn't worth the small increase in firepower.  It also means they can't be taken in 5 out of the 6 Dark Angels rites because they all require your troops choices to have the respective subtype.

[Varyn]

RG inductii rules seem very poor. A scoring unit isn't much use if it keeps moving 7" away. I really hope that the rule listed above is incomplete/paraphrased as it's so weak compared to some of the other legions.

[Marshal Mittens]

I think they are interesting and flavorful. I had already built a TSS squad with volkite chargers, and will likely build a second, for my Dark Angels to represent their inductii once I get to painting them. Sons of Horus I will need more chain axes first, maybe in the melee kit they release next year?

 

I like these, and I like that it's unique to each legion, and not just one type, or just traitor/loyalist.

[Sky Potato]

6 hours ago, DesuVult said:

Then cost less.  Don't be a direct downgrade while costing the same at the same time other legions are getting sidegrades.

Entirely fair. I obviously missed the costs.

[01RTB01]

As an EC player, the prospect of a unit with all Sabres that aren't Palatines could be fun.

 

For those running the numbers and points etc, ultimately there's more choices and for narrative gaming it's not a bad thing..For tournaments it's already clear what's "best'. Additional flavour for those of us that don't care for tournaments or "best" isn't a bad thing.

[SkimaskMohawk]

8 hours ago, Sky Potato said:

I know I’m cherry picking a quote slightly. But is this not ENTIRELY the point of Inductii? Mass recruited, rushed through training, poorly indoctrinated etc.

 

They’re supposed to be worse than a Legion Tactical or Despoiler squad.

 

 

 

In the lore they're definitely supposed to be less seasoned than other marines in some ways.

 

But rules wise, very many of them are an improvement or sidegrade; being in the camp of "worse than the template" doesn't feel good in comparison, regardless of lore.

[Hfran Morkai]

Indeed! I really like the image in my head of some SWs without a leader, no ranged capability, just shields and chainaxes (and presumably the Special Close Combat Weapons as the normal unit entry) as "Beserkers".

 

Perhaps I'd even consider using far more bare heads than I normally would (most of my Marines wear their helmets because they're not stupid).

[Runefyre]

Love the Ultramarine and Night Lord inductii, I'll definitely be adding some to my collections. Proto-tactical squads seem really cool and having a gang of shiv-wielding miscreants also sounds awesome. Having breaching (6+) may not be bad to give them an edge against other despoiler squads. Do we know if apothecaries can be attached to inductii? 

 

I'm not sold on the Wolves inductii, they seem...bad. Unless I'm missing something swapping their pistol for a shield will leave them with no paired weapons bonus and giving themselves a disordered charge through their ability will leave them with a whopping...1 attack per guy in the subsequent melee. So they're really fast to get into a melee they're probably disadvantaged in. Missing out on a sergeant's better leadership and better weapons is also not great. Given the veteran nature of the Wolves I don't see myself adding any inductii to my collection anyway. 

[Hfran Morkai]

I...completely forgot about them losing the paired weapons bonus.

 

Will just have to wait and see.

[SkimaskMohawk]

59 minutes ago, Runefyre said:

Love the Ultramarine and Night Lord inductii, I'll definitely be adding some to my collections. Proto-tactical squads seem really cool and having a gang of shiv-wielding miscreants also sounds awesome. Having breaching (6+) may not be bad to give them an edge against other despoiler squads. 

 

The breaching gives them higher output against marine+ compared to the chainswords, with or without a talent for murder kicking in. Honestly pretty good at spiking down units on the cheap, nevermind the combo you can get going with Bloody Murder and Spite (if they keep spite).

[Squark]

2 hours ago, Runefyre said:

Love the Ultramarine and Night Lord inductii, I'll definitely be adding some to my collections. Proto-tactical squads seem really cool and having a gang of shiv-wielding miscreants also sounds awesome. Having breaching (6+) may not be bad to give them an edge against other despoiler squads. Do we know if apothecaries can be attached to inductii? 

 

I'm not sold on the Wolves inductii, they seem...bad. Unless I'm missing something swapping their pistol for a shield will leave them with no paired weapons bonus and giving themselves a disordered charge through their ability will leave them with a whopping...1 attack per guy in the subsequent melee. So they're really fast to get into a melee they're probably disadvantaged in. Missing out on a sergeant's better leadership and better weapons is also not great. Given the veteran nature of the Wolves I don't see myself adding any inductii to my collection anyway. 

Combat shields have built in bolt pistols, don't they? Unless chainaxes are specialist weapons, the inductii get the paired weapon bonus.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Squark

[Hfran Morkai]

It's not built in but a Combat Shield allows a user to use the hand for another weapon.

 

Will have to wait and see I guess.