Wh40k 10th Edition Rules changes

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I didn't mention bloat. I'm just giving an opinion on how this will save time, which is what I think others are saying as well. (But I don't want to put my words into their mouths, they may not appreciate me doing that.) Perhaps if you read my post more carefully that would have been clear?

 

Anywho, seeing as you consider my lack of play time as an reason to keep my opinions to myself,  I should explain thata I now rarely play 40k not because the games take too long, but because the volume of faction rules was too much, too complex, and crucially, unfun. That, I considered 'bloat' and I'm hoping that the changes apart from the specific one I WAS discussing, will help resolve that. But only time will tell. I really enjoyed 9th before the codexes dropped, and then my enthusiasm petered out. So I won't be going in so hard this time.

 

[DesuVult]

My worry with physical cards is if errata changes them.

[Captain Idaho]

No, I'd say your lack of play time would be a reason to keep your disparaging comments to yourself, in fact. Your opinions on the game would otherwise be welcome. 

 

My position is the same as it always has been. New cards, sure great let's have new options for players. You enjoy using them then I'm all for them.

 

I personally don't think, from my experience and that of my peers locally, it'll make the game streamlined. I otherwise agree that the volume of additional rules for everything have dragged the game into a difficult to play casually area.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

3 minutes ago, DesuVult said:

My worry with physical cards is if errata changes them.

 

I have no experience of how or whether this has been done in AoS, but my experience of AT and even 40k datasheets since 8th is that GW have been extremely reluctant to errata unit and weapon profiles, so this worry may not be borne out. But I do share it.

[Orange Knight]

It looks like Universal Special Rules as returning.

 

That means that an Errata can make changes to all units across the board without modifying the individual cards.

 

Take a look at that Tyranid datasheet. One of the weapons has the "twin-linked" special rule. We might see the return of old favourites like Feel No Pain, Relentless, Eternal Warrior, Hit and Run, etc

[OttoVonAwesome]

Having cards does save time but only if you haven't memorized stats and it's still measured in seconds, 10 seconds here 20 seconds there. Even a player who is unfamiliar and has to reference will only end up shaving a few minutes off a game. This is still streamlining even if the effect isn't profound however where this approach will really come in handy is in teaching others who are new to the game how to play. You are gonna save hours there.

[Khalan]

9 hours ago, Arikel said:

 

I think the idea is that you don't have to remember because it's all on the data sheet that you are supposed to have in front of you. A person running a classic half company would have the SM rules (1-2 Pages) and as little as 4 additional pages for the data sheets for each unit (As the minimum for a half company is a Captain, 3 Tactical Squads, 1 Devastator Squad, 1 Assault Squad). The data sheet would have the information for every weapon the unit is equipped with. The possibility that the captain might have a better bolter than the tac squad's is there, but you don't have to remember this, you just have to say "my captain shoots bad guy with his (ranged weapon)", that you pick from the data sheet every time you fire.

 

I am tentatively excited for these rules. If they are truly all available digitally(for free!) and stay that way going forward (with in print being an option as well, I think I would like a copy of the main rules myself, and then print out my 2 pages of codex rules and my data sheets)) I could get behind that.

 

I mean we already do this with all the million ranged weapon profiles and other exotic melee weapons. I think its a Net positive, I would imagine that the biggest difference between all the weapon profiles of the same type would be Attacks and not AP/D/S

[Halandaar]

I think it's inevitable that FAQ and Errata will render some cards incorrect fairly quickly, although I don't see that this makes them any worse as an idea (after all, they'll be the same amount of wrong as the Codex) although you may rightly balk at having two premium price products that need correcting per army rather than just the one.

[OttoVonAwesome]

3 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

It looks like Universal Special Rules as returning.

 

That means that an Errata can make changes to all units across the board without modifying the individual cards.

 

Take a look at that Tyranid datasheet. One of the weapons has the "twin-linked" special rule. We might see the return of old favourites like Feel No Pain, Relentless, Eternal Warrior, Hit and Run, etc

God I hope so. People used to complain that USR's were adding to bloat but once you learned you knew em no matter the army then 8th 9th comes along and everyone has a different name for the same thing.

[OttoVonAwesome]

4 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

I think it's inevitable that FAQ and Errata will render some cards incorrect fairly quickly, although I don't see that this makes them any worse as an idea (after all, they'll be the same amount of wrong as the Codex) although you may rightly balk at having two premium price products that need correcting per army rather than just the one.

I don't think they are selling physical cards it seemed more like you would use the app to set the datasheet for your unit and use it from there in a consolidated army list of just what you have on a unit by unit basis or print them yourself with the full datasheets with all options existing in the index/codex.

 

To me this is a very old thing. Heavy Gear for instance and Battletech had been doing this as long as they have existed. Star Wars is the only one I can think of where physical cards are the only source of the rules.

Edited March 23, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[Captain Idaho]

4 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Having cards does save time but only if you haven't memorized stats and it's still measured in seconds, 10 seconds here 20 seconds there. Even a player who is unfamiliar and has to reference will only end up shaving a few minutes off a game. This is still streamlining even if the effect isn't profound however where this approach will really come in handy is in teaching others who are new to the game how to play. You are gonna save hours there.

 

I definitely think small scale games that only has a few cards per side can really benefit from this, in training folk.

 

That is a major benefit I can smile about. 

[marspeople]

Is there any indication yet of how allies may or may not work in the new edition?

I'd like to know if my CSM and Daemons can be taken toether without one side scxrewing the other rules wise.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think if the app is improved a bit and more accepted it can be a great gaming aid. I have used it throughout this edition and it is extremely helpful… stats, strats and such are right at your fingertips.

[Slips]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

I think it's inevitable that FAQ and Errata will render some cards incorrect fairly quickly, although I don't see that this makes them any worse as an idea (after all, they'll be the same amount of wrong as the Codex) although you may rightly balk at having two premium price products that need correcting per army rather than just the one.

Unless the changes are _DRASTIC_ I'd assume just...using some whiteout on the card and editing them that way would solve any issues.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

But, seriously though, how many times have we seen people expecting GW to change things on datasheets at the balance updates, and no such changes have appeared? Remember the whole 2 wound debacle for Chaos? Could have been fixed in a PDF, but GW would not touch the precious datasheet.

[Emperor Ming]

3 hours ago, DesuVult said:

My worry with physical cards is if errata changes them.

and then there's the codexs to consider

 

Stuff always changes, esp. if they keep to the two rounds of points changes and 4 dataslates per year

 

I would never buy the cards because of that

[Lord_Ikka]

As someone who plays X-wing, cards are something I'm used to and have been incorporating in my 40k games now as very quick-reference. Can they be unwieldy or space-consuming, yes, but they are also a lot easier to use than a codex. 

 

The problem of changing stats/rules on physical cards is no different than the current issue with codices being out of date within two weeks of printing due to FAQs. At least GW did state that all the cards will be digital and downloadable (initially, no idea if they will be when they do their next run of "codex-like" books), so printing off a correct datacard will be a trivial issue. 

[tzeentch9]

I wonder if they will merge some profiles, particularly space marines, otherwise it seems you would be able to take, for example, three librarians, plus three librarians in Phobos armour, plus three librarians in terminator armour, plus three primaris librarians etc etc. a whole army of characters. Might just be quirky rather than good, but seems an interesting idea

[Lord_Ikka]

5 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

I wonder if they will merge some profiles, particularly space marines, otherwise it seems you would be able to take, for example, three librarians, plus three librarians in Phobos armour, plus three librarians in terminator armour, plus three primaris librarians etc etc. a whole army of characters. Might just be quirky rather than good, but seems an interesting idea

SM really do need some sort of merge- there are a lot of current datasheets that are just minor variations (armor, jumppack/bike, even just weapons) that can be condensed into some sort of more simple format. 

[Schurge]

Free rules up front was a very needed but unexpected change. It's too early for me to set any expectations for myself but that bodes well for the future of the game.

 

Will the core gameplay actually be fun though and offer engaging mechanics?

[JAG Templar]

There is no hint/ rumour of alternating player activations within turns, right? 
 

I think that would be great for 40k but then some may argue that it is no longer 40k at that point. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

@Brother Tyler

this isn’t a general discussion of the upcoming edition. This is a discussion specifically about the rules.

 

Discussion about  models, lore, or even datasheet layout fall outside the scope of this discussion.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Am I living in a time where aos1st didn't bomb after they removed all army organization? Or where 8ths "only points" approach wasn't changed within a few months?

 

Did people just have standards back then?

[spessmarine]

weapons stats was odd for 40k, you'd have the same weapons on 50 different sheets

 

in HH, the guns were the same so collected in one part of the book
in AoS, weapons stats are unit bespoke so merit being on the sheet

 

nice to see they picked a side, the latter in this case, more granularity so they can bake cumbersome weapons into the WS rather than special rules (powerfists have WS 4+ rather than needing a rule to reflect being unwieldly and superior combatants have WS 2+ powerfist equivalents)

Edited March 24, 2023 by spessmarine

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Am I living in a time where aos1st didn't bomb after they removed all army organization? Or where 8ths "only points" approach wasn't changed within a few months?

 

Did people just have standards back then?

While I can appreciate the thought, this isn't anything like AoS1. That game nuked an entire world, and replaced it with rules like 'If you pretend to toast with a goblet and say 'To The Lady' you get a bonus.' It was pretty jank on all fronts.

 

The rules that were discussed after the drop seem to suggest there will be formations, and unlike Sigmar we still have Strength and Toughness. While I don't know enough about the edition yet to say much for certain, my initial opinion is positive.