WH40k game The Lion's Guard

[Mike8404]

12 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Too small. The original upgrade set will look alot better.

I had some of these printed in preparation for this release.  I think they're pretty good sculpts 

[Nephaston]

36 minutes ago, Skywrath said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Valrak say the Lionsguard would be completely new models?

 

He had the name of the box, and extrapolated from there.

[Shinn]

I'm ok with the BG being in the box..but that's cause I'm rebuilding my DA from the ground up and need em. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

47 minutes ago, Mike8404 said:

Death Company have always been a basic unit, I wouldn't count them in there unless GW keeps them for the BA refresh instead of moving them over to the new assault unit.  You also missed where I mentioned it wasn't 1 unit for BT, but at least 5.  I would imagine DA get as many since they have several special units

DC have not always been a basic unit.

they’ve always been able to take fairly unique weapon loadouts.

 

their kit never resembled any FB unit except maybe VGV, but they predate VGV with those fancy loadouts.

 

the unit with the neophytes also probably won’t be special for long, due to the rumor of new scouts coming. 
 

what other unique (noncharacter) units did they get?  An impulsor with a MM? Literally just an impulsor with a MM as part of an upgrade sprue (one that I’ve seen many speculate will become available to all. I’m not sure of that.)

 

look I hope I’m wrong but I just don’t really see any pattern from GW suggesting I am. 
 

the Brutalis dread also reinforces my view on this. It’s a primaris furioso with big nipple guns. The actual BA version will likely just come with an upgrade sprue. Maybe an upgrade sprue to include a force halberd to make it a librarian dread, which would then be sort of truly unique.

[spessmarine]

well that was dramatically anti-climactic
"why?" is the big question

[Mike8404]

11 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

DC have not always been a basic unit.

they’ve always been able to take fairly unique weapon loadouts.

 

their kit never resembled any FB unit except maybe VGV, but they predate VGV with those fancy loadouts.

 

the unit with the neophytes also probably won’t be special for long, due to the rumor of new scouts coming. 
 

what other unique (noncharacter) units did they get?  An impulsor with a MM? Literally just an impulsor with a MM as part of an upgrade sprue (one that I’ve seen many speculate will become available to all. I’m not sure of that.)

 

look I hope I’m wrong but I just don’t really see any pattern from GW suggesting I am. 
 

the Brutalis dread also reinforces my view on this. It’s a primaris furioso with big nipple guns. The actual BA version will likely just come with an upgrade sprue. Maybe an upgrade sprue to include a force halberd to make it a librarian dread, which would then be sort of truly unique

DC have always been basic.  They have always been special Assault Marines with a bolter.  No where near VGV,  your point is moot anyway.

 

Templars on the other hand had a full refresh and HQ's with loads unique to them.  It's not even up for discussion, DA should have had an update like that.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Mike8404

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

32 minutes ago, Mike8404 said:

DC have always been basic.  They have always been special Assault Marines with a bolter.  No where near VGV,  your point is moot anyway.

 

Templars on the other hand had a full refresh and HQ's with loads unique to them.  It's not even up for discussion, DA should have had an update like that.

A whole unit carrying power swords/fists or thunder hammers , or hand flamers or inferno pistols is far beyond a basic unit.

 

that’s like saying deathwing terminators are just a reskin of normal terminators.

edit
went through all of my old codexes except the 4th ed PDF which i'm still looking for.

AoD the whole squad could be armed with specialist pistols and melee options
3rd only sgt got special options (at this time normal assault squads got no special options)
5th it looks like DC were roughly analogous to assualt squads
i don't have 6th-8th eds to compare
9th ed comparable to VGV in weapon options, and far exceeding the options available to assault squads.

looking at a warcom update for BA from 2020 they were also fairly analagous to VGVs in 8th as well

so it does seem like i did misremembered a bit and they do shift back and forth every edition or so, from fairly standard basic loadouts, to much fancier loadouts, but since AoD had them able to be extremely kitted out i'd say that was the original intent behind them.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Kastor Krieg]

22 minutes ago, spessmarine said:

well that was dramatically anti-climactic
"why?" is the big question

Some drone in Sales calculated that this is the "optimal solution".

[Mike8404]

23 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

A whole unit carrying power swords/fists or thunder hammers , or hand flamers or inferno pistols is far beyond a basic unit.

 

that’s like saying deathwing terminators are just a reskin of normal terminators.

edit
went through all of my old codexes except the 4th ed PDF which i'm still looking for.

AoD the whole squad could be armed with specialist pistols and melee options
3rd only sgt got special options (at this time normal assault squads got no special options)
5th it looks like DC were roughly analogous to assualt squads
i don't have 6th-8th eds to compare
9th ed comparable to VGV in weapon options, and far exceeding the options available to assault squads.

so it does seem like i did misremembered a bit and they do shift back and forth every edition or so, from fairly standard basic loadouts, to much fancier loadouts, but since AoD had them able to be extremely kitted out i'd say that was the original intent behind them.

DC are a special Assault Marine unit and always have been.  SG are more like VGV.  

 

DC haven't been able to take Power Swords or Power Fists across an entire unit, afaik, ever and they're not at all a veteran unit, they're a basic unit.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Mike8404

[Grenzer]

So the box says 4 miniatures: Lion + 3 BGV. However, the Lion comes with two Watchers. Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt the Deathwing box list 6 miniatures, 5 terminators + Watcher. Im certain it used to, but maybe this has changed.

 

Shouldnt this box list 6 Miniatures?

 

Unless, the Lion's Watchers are only base decoration and therefore not counted as separate miniatures. Could compare it to Azrael if he had a standalone release.

 

I know, Im just grasping at straws, hoping this is fake/not final release version.

 

 

[darkangels91]

2 hours ago, Mike8404 said:

Sword Bros are hardly a one off when GW legends'd Honor Guard and redesigned the entire unit for Ultramarines specifically.

 

hounds of morokai were the exception, not the rule.

 

Also, Sword Bros weren't the only Unit we got for Black Templars.  We also got a Castellan, a Marshall, Primaris Crusader Squads (who also were the first to get the Pyroblaster), an upgrade kit, and we're the only army that can put Multi-Meltas on Primaris tanks.  That's how you do a refresh..this is pure laziness 

And combis to am I right? 

[WrathOfTheLion]

7 minutes ago, Grenzer said:

So the box says 4 miniatures: Lion + 3 BGV. However, the Lion comes with two Watchers. Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt the Deathwing box list 6 miniatures, 5 terminators + Watcher. Im certain it used to, but maybe this has changed.

 

Shouldnt this box list 6 Miniatures?

 

Unless, the Lion's Watchers are only base decoration and therefore not counted as separate miniatures. Could compare it to Azrael if he had a standalone release.

 

I know, Im just grasping at straws, hoping this is fake/not final release version.

 

 

The Deathwing Watcher is on his own little 25mm base in the DW Terminator Box. On the new Azrael and now the Lion, they're just on the base of the character itself, so I expect going forward that's the way things will be. If they update the Deathwing Knights kit, I expect the watcher will be glued onto the base of the Sergeant.

Edited March 29, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

34 minutes ago, Mike8404 said:

DC are a special Assault Marine unit and always have been.  SG are more like VGV.  

 

DC haven't been able to take Power Swords or Power Fists across an entire unit, afaik, ever and they're not at all a veteran unit, they're a basic unit.

They can currently take multiple power weapons including fists, they could in 7th, and they could in AoD.

 

no one said they were veterans (though fluff wise some will are going to be at some point.)

 

SG are more like a command squad than VGV.

[Tokugawa]

28 minutes ago, Grenzer said:

So the box says 4 miniatures: Lion + 3 BGV. However, the Lion comes with two Watchers. Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt the Deathwing box list 6 miniatures, 5 terminators + Watcher. Im certain it used to, but maybe this has changed.

 

Shouldnt this box list 6 Miniatures?

 

Unless, the Lion's Watchers are only base decoration and therefore not counted as separate miniatures. Could compare it to Azrael if he had a standalone release.

 

I know, Im just grasping at straws, hoping this is fake/not final release version.

 

 

Did Helbrecht kit contain "3 models"? Or even 4 with the dead ork? No, it contains one. The servitors are parts of the model and glued to the base. Did Belakor kit contain "two models"?

 

Watcher has its own base and is designed as one-use token, just like ammo cherubs. GW could mark it as "1 more model" on box if they want to.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Tokugawa

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

18 minutes ago, darkangels91 said:

And combis to am I right? 

Combi weapons are coming to vanilla marine veterans now as well, so all in all we just have to wait and see what the options for the new units are and what all new units we’re getting to know how unique the BT kits are.

[Alternis]

27 minutes ago, Grenzer said:

So the box says 4 miniatures: Lion + 3 BGV. However, the Lion comes with two Watchers. Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt the Deathwing box list 6 miniatures, 5 terminators + Watcher. Im certain it used to, but maybe this has changed.

 

Shouldnt this box list 6 Miniatures?

 

Unless, the Lion's Watchers are only base decoration and therefore not counted as separate miniatures. Could compare it to Azrael if he had a standalone release.

 

I know, Im just grasping at straws, hoping this is fake/not final release version.

 

 

Try to think of it like the Szarekh Silent King model

 

where if you remove the menhir, you had Szarekh’s attacks, and 2 extra attacks for his attendants on his Dias.

 

it may be similar to this, except instead of attacks just 2 extra abilities unique to the watchers. 

[davextreme]

4 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

We might get a new decal sheet for Dark Angels here though, as the current one doesn't have the decals needed for Bladeguard Veterans, only the 9E starter box has those, and it also has UM, BA, etc. decals on it.

good point. Even with the current sheet, I think there are only two DW logos of the right size.

 

 

in general I’ve never thought the Bladeguard style is quite right for DA. It’s fine but robes or greatcoats > tabards

[Felix Antipodes]

The BGV will go to another army and be replaced with TDA when they arrive with 10th.  If there is no update sprue or new transfer sheet with the box it is just lazy selling imho. The least they could do is provide alternate heads to break up the cookie cutter look.

[LittlePlasticHomies]

Doesn’t bode well for Sang Guard accompanying Dante.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 minutes ago, LittlePlasticHomies said:

Doesn’t bode well for Sang Guard accompanying Dante.

Yep, what ever the jump melee troops are will probably just be painted gold.

[OttoVonAwesome]

I'm dead sure the major chapters will get some kind of unique unit and Templar style release with the next codexes. Not much point in getting dissapointed they aren't right now cuase these are narrative book releases with the Lion and Dante. 

[Frogian]

4 hours ago, darkangels91 said:

These aren’t backstock. They’re one of the more popular Primaris units. They’re actually out of stock right now. Presumably because they just ripped their entire stock off shelves to repackage in this box with the Lion.

They don't do repackaging - its cheaper and easier (and way less of a logistical nightmare) to just make new sprues. (also bladeguard are in stock on the UK website at least)

Edited March 29, 2023 by Frogian

[OttoVonAwesome]

Stuff does tend to go out of stock when they do bundles I noticed. 

[Matrindur]

1 minute ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Stuff does tend to go out of stock when they do bundles I noticed. 

Probably because any new bladeguard sprue being produced goes into this box instead so the normal versions need to wait

[Arkangilos]

14 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Yep, what ever the jump melee troops are will probably just be painted gold.

No, they will get the Ultramarine Honor Guard treatment. 
 

UM had dedicated honor guard, and they were upgraded to Primaris.

BA have dedicated honor guard, they will too.

 

The DA do not have dedicated ones, so so far they don’t. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Arkangilos