Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Rules

[Emperor Ming]

Gw: we have toned down the amount of rerolls in 10th

 

Also Gw: now lets talk about all the rerolls to hit and wound marines are going to get 

 

Knight players:

 

Rerolls to hit and wound, per turn, for everyone, what have they been smoking

 

I'm very worried now, that could just be the tip of the iceberg

 

and then we will start the merry-go-round of balance dataslates and endless faqs required to reign this nonsense in

 

I was hoping that rules would just be more balanced from the offset, silly me

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, MARK0SIAN said:

Space Marines are special though. I agree with what you’re saying in terms of uneven support but Space Marines are definitely a special case based purely on the number of players who play them and the money they generate for GW. 

 

I somewhat agree. I think they are special because of how popular they are, but the result of that popularity should be reflected in their model support and their inclusion in novels and artwork, but definitely not at the expense of the game or in such a way as to make other faction seem neglected on the tabletop.

 

GW are still being quite vague. We won't have the detachment rules of the Gladius so we don't know how themed it might be to any one chapter. Apparently doctrines are back (something I really do not like) but I'm hoping they are reworked into something more similar to the Hive Mind adaptation rules that were shown. It would be nice to simply pick a single doctrine for the battle from a choice of 3, and it could bolster shooting, movement or melee ability for the army.

 

By the way, did anyone else notice that characters might be rejoining units once again? I would be quite happy with this.

[Lemondish]

3 hours ago, MARK0SIAN said:

But they have said that armies will only get one detachment at launch

What counts as an army, though?

 

What they clump together for metawatch articles?

 

What used to be their own Codex but since became subsumed within the Marine book in the latest edition?

 

I daresay we still do not have enough information for this amount of concern.

[ZeroWolf]

58 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Gw: we have toned down the amount of rerolls in 10th

 

Also Gw: now lets talk about all the rerolls to hit and wound marines are going to get 

 

Knight players:

 

Rerolls to hit and wound, per turn, for everyone, what have they been smoking

 

I'm very worried now, that could just be the tip of the iceberg

 

and then we will start the merry-go-round of balance dataslates and endless faqs required to reign this nonsense in

 

I was hoping that rules would just be more balanced from the offset, silly me

I don't think it's that big a deal to be honest, especially if toughness is being increased for the bigger units (like Knights) then yeah you get to make sure you hit it, but wounding it will be tougher again.

[Arkangilos]

37 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

By the way, did anyone else notice that characters might be rejoining units once again? I would be quite happy with this.

Completely agree!

[OttoVonAwesome]

Most of that article was stuff we already knew from the original reveal. Was hoping they might shed a little light on the 1st Company detachment they mentioned back then what with the focus on Terminators. People prolly won't be so worried about subfactions too if they actually showed more than just the Gladius detachment wich we were already told was basically the Ultramarines detachment. Dammit GW and your awful 2 page drip feed bull.

[zero888]

For everyone worried about Oath of Moment, I think of it as a way to discourage taking Deathstar-esque bricks that make the game bland. Like your 10x CSM Terminators with MoS, Delightful Agonies, Black Rune, and the Trans-Hit prayer....

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

What counts as an army, though?

 

What they clump together for metawatch articles?

 

What used to be their own Codex but since became subsumed within the Marine book in the latest edition?

 

I daresay we still do not have enough information for this amount of concern.

Imagine there's no faction,

 

it's easy if you try.

 

No clan traits under that,

 

and no chapter too.

 

Imagine all the people,

 

fighting for today.

 

Yeah!

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

8 minutes ago, zero888 said:

For everyone worried about Oath of Moment, I think of it as a way to discourage taking Deathstar-esque bricks that make the game bland. Like your 10x CSM Terminators with MoS, Delightful Agonies, Black Rune, and the Trans-Hit prayer....

That seems like a really lame design philosophy…

[OttoVonAwesome]

Just want to point out that it was said in the live stream that the Gladius detachment would get doctrines as a sub ability so Oath of Moment is a thing for all marines at least of the vanilla variety.

 

I have to wonder though if the one detachment per faction at luanch does apply to marines unless Blood Angels and Dark Angels and Space wolves have different data sheets for basically every infantry unit with different point costs and abilities sort of like the way they aproached the different regiments for guard it really will be pretty damn lame. The wait for a codex to get back Red Thirst or whatever the hell the space wolves rule is will be unbearable and it makes me think that maybe they have split them into factions of thier own. Can't imagine how thick the marine codex will be if they roll em all back into it.

Edited April 8, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[Bonzi]

1 hour ago, zero888 said:

For everyone worried about Oath of Moment, I think of it as a way to discourage taking Deathstar-esque bricks that make the game bland. Like your 10x CSM Terminators with MoS, Delightful Agonies, Black Rune, and the Trans-Hit prayer....

I'm a little surprised how many think Oath is overpowered.  It is good but it absolutely doesn't scale with game size at all and it will be Space Marines only army rule.  At 1K it's amazing, at 2K it's half as effective, at 3K it's a let down.  They're killing the heck out of one unit...just one.  I think it's pretty bland myself.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Just want to point out that it was said in the live stream that the Gladius detachment would get doctrines as a sub ability so Oath of Moment is a thing for all marines at least of the vanilla variety.

 

I have to wonder though if the one detachment per faction at luanch does apply to marines unless Blood Angels and Dark Angels and Space wolves have different data sheets for basically every infantry unit with different point costs and abilities sort of like the way they aproached the different regiments for guard it really will be pretty damn lame. The wait for a codex to get back Red Thirst or whatever the hell the space wolves rule is will be unbearable and it makes me think that maybe they have split them into factions of thier own. Can't imagine how thick the marine codex will be if they roll em all back into it.

I think the space wolf doctrine is called Gud Boiz 

[Shinespider]

I don't think scaling is really a huge issue. Sure, if you're playing against 3,000 points of pure chaff, it's a problem - but in reality the higher the points go, the more likely it is that someone is squeezing in a Primarch or a Knight or something.

 

I also think - somewhat cynically - that Space Marines are everyone's first army, and it makes sense to give their basic detachment an army rule that even the dumbest babies won't be confused by.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Bonzi said:

I'm a little surprised how many think Oath is overpowered.  It is good but it absolutely doesn't scale with game size at all and it will be Space Marines only army rule.  At 1K it's amazing, at 2K it's half as effective, at 3K it's a let down.  They're killing the heck out of one unit...just one.  I think it's pretty bland myself.

I haven’t seen anyone say it’ll be OP in general. I think I’ve seen 1 person say it’ll be OP against knights.

 

against just about anyone else it’s absolute crap.

 

infantry heavy guard, what are you going to use it on? A single squad? A single transport?

maybe a tank?

 

it might be pretty good at smaller game sizes I agree with that.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 minutes ago, Shinespider said:

I don't think scaling is really a huge issue. Sure, if you're playing against 3,000 points of pure chaff, it's a problem - but in reality the higher the points go, the more likely it is that someone is squeezing in a Primarch or a Knight or something.

 

I also think - somewhat cynically - that Space Marines are everyone's first army, and it makes sense to give their basic detachment an army rule that even the dumbest babies won't be confused by.  

Great, so you killed angron, he comes back, a lot of good that does you.

 

even against another primarch, great you killed 1 unit in a 3k game.  Not a huge deal unless you too have a primarch or something similar.

 

it just seems super underwhelming to me.

[Lemondish]

1 hour ago, Bonzi said:

I'm a little surprised how many think Oath is overpowered.  It is good but it absolutely doesn't scale with game size at all and it will be Space Marines only army rule.  At 1K it's amazing, at 2K it's half as effective, at 3K it's a let down.  They're killing the heck out of one unit...just one.  I think it's pretty bland myself.

It's basically just a decentralized Seal of Oath in a world where weapons will have less AP and things will be tougher. 

 

It's great, but it has some limitations on scaling and telegraphs your intent pretty heavily, and that could have an impact depending on how these other reaction style core stratagems behave.

[The Emperors Champion22]

6 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Gw: we have toned down the amount of rerolls in 10th

 

Also Gw: now lets talk about all the rerolls to hit and wound marines are going to get 

 

Knight players:

 

Rerolls to hit and wound, per turn, for everyone, what have they been smoking

 

I'm very worried now, that could just be the tip of the iceberg

 

and then we will start the merry-go-round of balance dataslates and endless faqs required to reign this nonsense in

 

I was hoping that rules would just be more balanced from the offset, silly me

Marines get rerolls vs one unit per turn, just take hordes or msu’s vs them, threat overload.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Bit premature to be calling out Oath of moment when it's the only one we've seen and they didn't even show the doctrines just the tyranid ones. We don't even know what Tyranids get for a faction ability lol. Man what a terrible article more questions than answers.

[Akerkoke]

Marines get the Oath but we don't know what the other factions get. So it's a bit early to call the ability OP

[OttoVonAwesome]

My worry is that Oath of Moment does appear very powerful but like it's been mentioned scales horribly and things like the damn Votaan Grudges will be less powerful but propogate and scale infinitely better others still having army wide effects that have much greater impact when spread out and again scale alot better.

 

It's also very likely that strategems being reactionary it will be pretty simple to just defensively buff whatever unit is targeted as we haven't seen the basic strategems and Armour of Contempt alone will likely mitigate a certain amount of threat. Shroud saves anyone?

Edited April 8, 2023 by OttoVonAwesome

[tzeentch9]

11 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Many times, I would agree. Once a game becomes a defacto monopoly on the space, I disagree however.

 

This is the same company that released 9th. They could use some direct feedback.

You know that they do poll players every now and again yes? About what they like or want in the future?

[Vanger]

31 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Bit premature to be calling out Oath of moment when it's the only one we've seen and they didn't even show the doctrines just the tyranid ones. We don't even know what Tyranids get for a faction ability lol. Man what a terrible article more questions than answers.

 

21 minutes ago, Akerkoke said:

Marines get the Oath but we don't know what the other factions get. So it's a bit early to call the ability OP

 

But..., but if people are not allowed to jump to lremature conclusions, then what will they complain about? 

 

I don't like it either, but complaining is part of the hobby. 

 

I for one like the idea of marines beeing good against key targets, fits their lore better being more of a precision strike force. Also if they take away re-roll auras, chapter master buffs and we don't have to rely on character aura bubbles for effectivenes is a big pro in my eyes. 

[Doctor Perils]

5 hours ago, Bonzi said:

I'm a little surprised how many think Oath is overpowered.  It is good but it absolutely doesn't scale with game size at all and it will be Space Marines only army rule.  At 1K it's amazing, at 2K it's half as effective, at 3K it's a let down.  They're killing the heck out of one unit...just one.  I think it's pretty bland myself.

 

1 hour ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

Marines get rerolls vs one unit per turn, just take hordes or msu’s vs them, threat overload.

 

Some armies by design rely on one very big unit doing a lot of the legwork, like knights or World Eaters with Angron, things like that. Of course we don't know what these armies will look like in 10th yet, but their concern remains legitimate.

I also really don't like the idea of having all these big fun models disappear entirely from the boards because one faction can just delete them without breaking a sweat, having every army copy paste MSUs because of the design of a single faction ability is bad game design

 

On top of that, without concerns for specific armies, I'm also worried what it might imply for objective securing games. Most armies have to put in the effort to take control of objectives, this ability can essentially give a marine player the ability to delete a unit anywhere on the board that was controlling an objective.

 

Still, wait and see, this thing is so far the most concerning ones we've seen for 10th, but also one of the rare ones imo

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm not sure how when we only have one faction's rule we can think it's over powered. If the next faction's rule is +1LD (-1LD?) or something stupid I'll join the complaining, but for now let's enjoy the ride of child like wonder waiting for 10th.

[Orange Knight]

It's far, far to early to worry or complain about the rules.

 

I think we should sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. GW are teasing us with incomplete information to get a discussion going. We can't gauge how useful things will be as we can't yet see the full shape of the game to come.

 

We'll have a much better idea of the game at the end of this month, after people get a chance to play it at Warhammer Fest, and even then we won't have a full impression of the rules for the various faction. I imagine they'll have tables set up to use the contents of the new boxset.

 

The things we can be positive about include the improved and clear presentation of rules and weapon profiles, the return of USR and the lean streamlining of the sub factions. Of course, I expect GW will go back on this to some extent once codex books start dropping.