Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Rules

[jaxom]

5 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Does it though? How many battles are multiple chapters of space marines actually fighting together?

A decent number. Smaller crusade forces often draw a few squads from many chapters. They’ll deploy as one for  important tasks.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, spessmarine said:

It also merits discussion, just what exactly is defined as a faction from the perspective of GW? Seems obvious but, if you were to visit the most important Warhammer site, the store, it sure looks like there are quite a few space marine factions to pick from. Space Marines, Salamanders, Grey Knights all look like a faction from this view.
This is something to consider from the perspective of a newbie picking a place to start, it sure looks like there are thirteen Space Marine factions.

 

This is a great point.

 

my 10 yr old nephew still views space marines and blood angels as two completely separate things.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 minutes ago, jaxom said:

A decent number. Smaller crusade forces often draw a few squads from many chapters. They’ll deploy as one for  important tasks.

Do you have examples? Because the main examples I can think of are all major massive campaigns, like armeggedon, and DoB, the fight against the beast where the last wall protocol was activated, etc.

 

most battles aren’t that massive or important enough to justify that level of resources.

 

and we have to remember that most battles in BL novels are not typical in the first place, nor are the battles in books any where near a large number of battles that happen in a single year in the 40k universe.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Malakithe]

9 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

No one says they shouldn’t try, but they shouldn’t gut the heart and soul of the game in order to achieve it.

Thats usually the case though if something isnt achievable. Its gutted or scrapped entirely. Happens all the time in a lot of other industries and other games 

[Lemondish]

1 hour ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

The big question being wich chapters count as factions in thier own right. Is it only Vanilla with oath of moment cuase it really should be they are the codex compliant chapters. I can't imagine World Eaters and Deathguard will all share a faction trait with the Black Legion and the rest and would love some clarity as do all of us it seems.

That's truly the question, isn't it?

 

I would say the Metawatch table for win rates is a decent enough guide. The last one did not include World Eaters, but should you add them you'd have this breakdown:

 

Loyalists

Adeptus Astartes

Grey Knights

Space Wolves

Dark Angels

Blood Angels

Deathwatch

 

Traitors

Chaos Space Marines

Thousand Sons

Death Guard

World Eaters

 

I assume to the next 40k Metawatch article will be next week, and that may be the best guide we have of how GW views this faction breakdown. Will the Indexes include these as separate factions/armies, or will one detachment apply to all? Only time will tell, and given how the way the pre-edition launch articles often go through what the new edition means for each faction, we shall see soon enough.

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Characters joining units can definitely be a positive if done right. But doing it right means;

1) simplifying which rules confer to the unit and which dont. This was a huge pain in the butt in 6th & 7th. And with so many USRs, it became extremely annoying.

2) limiting how many characters can join a unit. NO MORE DEATHSTARS.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Thats usually the case though if something isnt achievable. Its gutted or scrapped entirely. Happens all the time in a lot of other industries and other games 

If they gut it I bet they see a serious drop in their sales 

[Blindhamster]

5 hours ago, Lemondish said:

That's truly the question, isn't it?

 

I would say the Metawatch table for win rates is a decent enough guide. The last one did not include World Eaters, but should you add them you'd have this breakdown:

 

Loyalists

Adeptus Astartes

Grey Knights

Space Wolves

Dark Angels

Blood Angels

Deathwatch

 

Traitors

Chaos Space Marines

Thousand Sons

Death Guard

World Eaters

 

I assume to the next 40k Metawatch article will be next week, and that may be the best guide we have of how GW views this faction breakdown. Will the Indexes include these as separate factions/armies, or will one detachment apply to all? Only time will tell, and given how the way the pre-edition launch articles often go through what the new edition means for each faction, we shall see soon enough.

Templars will almost certainly maintain a distinct faction if such comes to pass

[Special Officer Doofy]

6 hours ago, Lemondish said:

That's truly the question, isn't it?

 

I would say the Metawatch table for win rates is a decent enough guide. The last one did not include World Eaters, but should you add them you'd have this breakdown:

 

Loyalists

Adeptus Astartes

Grey Knights

Space Wolves

Dark Angels

Blood Angels

Deathwatch

 

Traitors

Chaos Space Marines

Thousand Sons

Death Guard

World Eaters

 

I assume to the next 40k Metawatch article will be next week, and that may be the best guide we have of how GW views this faction breakdown. Will the Indexes include these as separate factions/armies, or will one detachment apply to all? Only time will tell, and given how the way the pre-edition launch articles often go through what the new edition means for each faction, we shall see soon enough.

 

Purely from a game perspective and not in a setting/lore way, but blood angels for example have a lot more in common with the vanilla Marines than death guard or thousand sons do with vanilla chaos Marines. BA get access to all vanilla units plus their own unique ones (not to mention follow the doctrine style mono bonus) where the chaos ones actually lose access to way more units than they gain, and get the cult units as a troop choice. Not counting named characters DG loses out on 22 chaos marine options and gains 16 unique ones (one being a terrain). There is a lot less unit overlap. I doubt the chaos ones will be combined as just chaos Marines for the index. They would have to have a difference for "possessed" and "death guard possessed" as currently those unit's datasheets are definetly different.

 

Seems weird GW is (was?) trying to put the loyalist ones back in one book while finally giving the cult legions their own book. Perhaps it's a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing?

[Blindhamster]

I think it’s probably more lore accurate, the vast majority of even divergent chapters are still part of the imperium, almost all of them follow the codex at least broadly, and they have access to generally the same supplies.

 

the chaos legions are predominantly fragmented and really the only one really acting as it once did with the same organisation is the black legion, most traitor legions have fallen into the excesses of their respective gods modus operandi in a way that even the most divergent loyalist chapter hasn’t.

 

that said, in an ideal word, all space marines would be one book, all chaos marines would be another, and there would be another option to run renegades which have access to things from both but with some extra restrictions 

[Blindhamster]

But yeah, I think the god aligned legions benefit from their own books, though I don’t really like that they lose units, maybe a rule of 1 thing would work 

[ZeroWolf]

I think there can be some examples that make sense like no obliterators in a Thousand Son force...is there any Tzeentch demon engines?

[acrozatarim]

18 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I think it’s probably more lore accurate, the vast majority of even divergent chapters are still part of the imperium, almost all of them follow the codex at least broadly, and they have access to generally the same supplies.

 

the chaos legions are predominantly fragmented and really the only one really acting as it once did with the same organisation is the black legion, most traitor legions have fallen into the excesses of their respective gods modus operandi in a way that even the most divergent loyalist chapter hasn’t.

 

that said, in an ideal word, all space marines would be one book, all chaos marines would be another, and there would be another option to run renegades which have access to things from both but with some extra restrictions 

Hell,  I'd love a way to run renegade marine units in a CSM army. It's weird how they ditch all the land speeders when they go rogue xD

[Cactus]

56 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

I think there can be some examples that make sense like no obliterators in a Thousand Son force...is there any Tzeentch demon engines?

Yes. They're all flyers. Firelords, doomwings and silver towers.

 

https://wargamingworkshop.com/sci-fi-collection/epic-armageddon/chaos/chaos-thousand-sons-cult/

[silverstu]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

But yeah, I think the god aligned legions benefit from their own books, though I don’t really like that they lose units, maybe a rule of 1 thing would work 

 

Could be just a case of developing them as separate factions- Loyalists have been operate for a long time so their individual identities are well established - chaos legions maybe haven't had that distinctness - bringing them out in separate books emphasises them as factions in their own right.  It gives Chaos a broader feel- Chaos has gone from an individual faction to a whole category. Dark mechanicus and LotD are further obvious expansions [as well as more new units for Legions].

[acrozatarim]

New daemon engines in the vein of the Tzeentchian epic flyers would be amazing.

[Crimson Longinus]

Auspex Tactics made a good analysis of Oath of Moment:

 

 

I fully agree with them, it is a balancing nightmare.

 

 

[Sete]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Templars will almost certainly maintain a distinct faction if such comes to pass

I can already give you an idea of how it's gonna work:

 

[Bradeh]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Does it though? How many battles are multiple chapters of space marines actually fighting together?

 

from a lore perspective it’s extremely rare to see two marines from different chapters on the same planet let alone the same battlefield (unless we’re talking death watch of course.)

I agree these battleforged army rules seemed kinda silly and frivolous to me.

 

 

Many codices and narrative books will have pages like this.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Bradeh

[brother_b]

I’m concerned we’re going to have “Trope-locked” detachments:

 

What I mean is Blood Angels get Red Thirst but only if they take X amount of jump troops; White Scars will need bikers; hell Stygies VIII will need specific number of rangers, etc.
 

Feeling a little wary. I wonder how restrictive the detachments will be, how much real flavor can you get. I’m hopefully optimistic because I like the look of the simplicity. I’m hoping for that flavor though.

 

I’m also hoping for trope-less abilities and faction abilities.

 

For instance I hope Blood Angel specific rules aren’t tied to only a jump pack army. I hope I can craft other unique blood angels armies like using dreads, termites, etc. Not to say that I don’t like jump pack BA, just hope we have more flexibility and still access to special rules.

 

Another example would be bike army white scars. Unfortunately bike units are meh and my army has been mostly assault infantry.

 

This not a piss and moan too it’s hard for me to explain my feelings. I’m extremely hyped for the new edition just  high hopes for my favorite hobby.

[Blindhamster]

100% agree. I love my blood angels, but the amount of actual jump troops I use has always been relatively limited, and I’ve no interest in buying the old small kits either, so if they somehow made it mandatory for blood angels I’d be most upset lol

[redmapa]

In an ideal world these detachments would work similarly to how the Arks detachment work, you pick a battlefield role like Elites and all those units become Battleline and the rest are subject to rule of 3, so a BA detachment might have more Fast Attack and buffs to infantry assaults but you can still build a Terminator heavy list or add 3 predators and then 3 Repulsors or something while using what will be this editions version of your army's chapter tactic as opposed to using like the Iron Hands detachment if you wanted something like Mechanized BA.

 

 

 

 

[siegfriedfr]

4 hours ago, Crimson Longinus said:

Auspex Tactics made a good analysis of Oath of Moment:

 

 

I fully agree with them, it is a balancing nightmare.

 

 

 

Yep, as soon as i read this, my hope for a less lethal edition were squashed... and of course it's the marines getting this monster, again making the game all about destroying the opponent, ad not outsmarting him.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just this morning realized I misread oath of moment, and that it was just pick 1 unit at the start of the game, rather than beginning of each turn.

[Kythnos]

5 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Just this morning realized I misread oath of moment, and that it was just pick 1 unit at the start of the game, rather than beginning of each turn.

Beginning of each of your command phases.