Wh40k 10th Edition Weapons in 10th

[Ming the Merciless]

10 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Call me stuck in my old edition ways, but something rubs me the wrong way of heavy weapons being perfectly portable and giving a bonus when staying still; the bonus of staying still was being able to fire and eventually bring able to hit on something other than 6s.

 

Rerolls are down, but ease of hitting is up it seems.

I would imagine traditional infantry heavy weapons will have a lower BS+ to compensate.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

I am still hyped for 10th, but consolidating bolt rifles is a little annoying. How can it be both an assault weapon and a heavy weapon? They've framed this choice as "now you can build your bolt rifles however" but in reality, who was kicking off over bolt rifle builds - even in WYSIWYG? I never met anyone that said "your bolt rifle magazine isn't straight and the scope isn't 2mm longer - they can't possible be stalkers!!"

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Just now, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I am still hyped for 10th, but consolidating bolt rifles is a little annoying. How can it be both an assault weapon and a heavy weapon? They've framed this choice as "now you can build your bolt rifles however" but in reality, who was kicking off over bolt rifle builds - even in WYSIWYG? I never met anyone that said "your bolt rifle magazine isn't straight and the scope isn't 2mm longer - they can't possible be stalkers!!"

 

Exactly.

 

But I'm SURE this will be the key to bring in that "wider audience" they covet so hard.

[AenarIT]

7 minutes ago, Triszin said:

Hammerhead rail cannon Is str 20

 

Not the strongest gun in the game..

 

 

Contenders:

Votann: magna rail cannon

Necron: doom gun

Knights: volcano lance

The railgun is currently S14. Even Tau have stronger guns:
- Ta'unar, Heavy Rail Cannon Array (currently S18)
- Stormsurge, Pulse Blastcannon (S16)
 

[SkimaskMohawk]

@Ming the Merciless @CL_Mission

 

Maybe. But the two examples they showed of heavy weapons have the marines hitting naturally on 3s. So from what they've actually shown, it seems like Heavy has turned into a net buff. 

 

 

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

Just now, Lord Nord said:

 

Exactly.

 

But I'm SURE this will be the key to bring in that "wider audience" they covet so hard.

Yeah those 5 people on the cusp of starting 40K but were put off by bolter variants will now be very happy 

[Nephaston]

Yeah, provided they have a worse BS on traditionally heavy weapons like lascannons and heavy bolters, [Heavy] will mean they work like usual, while on any other weapon with "regular" BS it is a buff.

[Holier Than Thou]

Melta looks like it is one of the worst options for anti-tank, got a 50-50 chance to wound a Rhino.

[phandaal]

1 minute ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I am still hyped for 10th, but consolidating bolt rifles is a little annoying. How can it be both an assault weapon and a heavy weapon? They've framed this choice as "now you can build your bolt rifles however" but in reality, who was kicking off over bolt rifle builds - even in WYSIWYG? I never met anyone that said "your bolt rifle magazine isn't straight and the scope isn't 2mm longer - they can't possible be stalkers!!"

 

Assault and Heavy work differently now, so that is how they are able to be combined. Basically, the bolter gets to fire when you advance and if you stand still it hits better. That is what Assault+Heavy means now.

 

The traditional "heavy" weapons from 9th will probably have a worse Ballistic Skill to account for this.

 

It will be the same effect, just in reverse. i.e., a 4+ ballistic skill on a Heavy Bolter but you get +1 for standing still and firing it, so you go back to 3+.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

I just don't get that Heavy weapon rule. What's even more annying though is that in 2026 when 11th Ed. launches, all the people that started in 10th will kick off when this rule is flipped again.

3 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Assault and Heavy work differently now, so that is how they are able to be combined. Basically, the bolter gets to fire when you advance and if you stand still it hits better. That is what Assault+Heavy means now.

 

The traditional "heavy" weapons from 9th will probably have a worse Ballistic Skill to account for this.

 

It will be the same effect, just in reverse. i.e., a 4+ ballistic skill on a Heavy Bolter but you get +1 for standing still and firing it, so you go back to 3+.

Looks like I commented my lamentations above without reading this.Thanks for the quick explanation. It's been a long week...

[Scribe]

7 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

Exactly.

 

But I'm SURE this will be the key to bring in that "wider audience" they covet so hard.

 

Not sure this is the intent of the changes.

 

I think lapsed players are more likely the target of 10th.

[MARK0SIAN]

There is some good stuff here. Simplifying the bolter profiles makes sense, I’m guessing they’ll do the same for the plasma variants? 
 

I think the way they’ve done heavy and assault is a bit weird though. Advancing and firing confers no penalty it seems so it’s basically just free movement if you’re not charging which seems very generous. Heavy also being a bonus to hit if you stay still instead of the removal of a penalty for moving also seems a bit weird. Lascannons aren’t as portable and easy to aim as a bolt pistol. 
 

I’m not a fan of mortal wounds but at least in this case the mortal wounds on 6s to wound are in place of the normal damage and not in addition.
 

Generally I’m feeling a bit more positive on the changes than yesterday. The test now will be if GW can restrain themselves from giving out these abilities to everything under the sun.

Edited April 14, 2023 by MARK0SIAN

[Nephaston]

 

Next article seems to finally be about certain transports. Finally.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I like these changes, they're cool.

 

We'll probably see some units with heavy weapons hitting on 4s, cooking in the -1 to hit. The currently listed units aren't a good representation, as I think both Terminators and Dark Reapers ignored the move/shoot penalty, and the intercessor weapon is entirely different altogether now.

 

The Melta rifle also was previously an assault weapon, so it's not a canonical example of a heavy weapon just because it has the heavy ability now.

Edited April 14, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Khornestar]

No illusions about this edition being perfect, but this preview is amping up my hype even more.

 

The bolt rifles are a slam dunk IMO. Astartes demonstrating the versatility of the weapon and their marksmanship. Thumbs up.

 

Twin linked is the thing I’m least sold on. But my flamestorm aggressors might not mind. Differentiates their fists from terminators.

 

For any complaints of 10th being a dumbed down edition, I expect those are the players who will just dominate their opponents with their generalship and mastery of the dumb system. From my perspective it’s less convoluted, which is not a negative thing at all. It’s nice to like things and look forward to things. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

So I like that it seems aggressors will still have a niche and not be completely outshined by terminators, but not pleased that they seem like the premier chip damage option for ranged attacks.

 

if they get an extra attack for having 2 fists I think they’ll be a solid competitor for terminators.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Just now, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

So I like that it seems aggressors will still have a niche and not be completely outshined by terminators, but not pleased that they seem like the premier chip damage option for ranged attacks.

 

if they get an extra attack for having 2 fists I think they’ll be a solid competitor for terminators.

I don't think they get an extra attack, but always have re-roll wounds with twin linked. I think they want to go away from adding attacks for having two weapons, etc., and just cook it on the datasheet.

[chapter master 454]

Twin-Linked is certainly not sure of itself right now, from re-roll hits, to just getting double the shots to now re-roll to wound...yo, twin-linked things ok at home?

 

However some real interesting things here. First USRs are looking like they actually took some time to create a structure to how they work. We have a straight forward 3 part system being shown and it keeps it concise and you know where things should be.

Devastating Wounds, Sustain Hits X, Anti-Y-X. These show a good understanding of how keywords for rules should be done. "When does this rule matter" "Well it says hit in its name so during hit rolls" "Does this work during hit rolls?" "No that one has wounds in its name so works during wounding rolls". The rule goes some way to partly explain where it would be relevant from it's name. Naturally we will see minor deviation as not all rules will need all 3 parts (Devastating Wounds and Precision) however the fact you say a rule within 2 words is great and how much does it do, that much. No nonsense. Good stuff. I love it.

 

A confirmation I believe now of Mortal Wounds returning and in this case being shown as the method of representing the old rending rule (for the young'uns: It used to work very similarly but instead if triggered would ignore armour saves entirely). So that mechanic isn't going anywhere, question is will GW bring it in and not make it super easy to get/needed to get damage done.

 

Heavy becoming a straight benefit is interesting however I expect a lot of heavy weapons to have a built-in worse to hit rate unless you use the rule (Imperial Guard Heavy Weapon teams likely hit on 5s with their heavy weapons by default). Same will likely go for marines, will see Heavy Bolters being 4+ to hit instead of 3+.

A MASSIVE shake up in the primaris front who got their privilege checked here with their Bolt Rifles going to 24", finally...seriously though I actually like this change however will Boltguns be similar? Because it is going to be hard to compete with a straight 2 shot weapon if you only get Rapid Fire 1, maybe the hope is we see Bolt guns be one of the odd balls with rapid fire 2 with only 1 attack default (hark back to the old Bolter Blitz, jumping out of rhinos!)

 

Each reveal is getting more interesting and that little snippet at the bottom. Be still my beating heart -looks over to his land raiders- ...don't do that...don't give me hope...hope is the first step on the road to disappointment...

[Shinespider]

People can say that nobody was being kept out of the game by Intercessors or whatever, and I'm sure that's technically true, but not being sure which of the three options is best - and being afraid of building the "wrong one" - is absolutely a source of anxiety for both new and old players. I'm pretty neutral on the change overall. 

 

Also - and this is actually serious - when Intercessors get their next iteration, this will free up a huge amount of sprue space for more interesting options.

 

I'm curious if Hellblasters will also have their three different plasma weapons crunched into one.

 

I quite dislike twin-linked coming back, honestly. The idea that two bolters strapped together is strictly worse than two bolters not strapped together is dumb.  

 

Transports will be cool to see but I'm still waiting on a damned psyker. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Shinespider

[Tokugawa]

Seems 10th will be the edition with least WYSIWYG headache so far.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also I find it interesting that they seem to be keeping AT weapons largely secret.

so far the only AT guns we’ve seen has been ML and melta rifle.

2 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I don't think they get an extra attack, but always have re-roll wounds with twin linked. I think they want to go away from adding attacks for having two weapons, etc., and just cook it on the datasheet.

I mean that’s what I’m talking about idr the terminator datasheet now off the top of my head, but if termies get 2 melee attacks I hope aggressors get 3

[StraightSilver]

20 minutes ago, Holier Than Thou said:

Melta looks like it is one of the worst options for anti-tank, got a 50-50 chance to wound a Rhino.

GW have stated that these previews don't show all stats on the data sheets so Melta guns will undoubtedly have "anti-tank" meaning they wound on a 3+ regardless of vehicle toughness?

[Bradeh]

30 minutes ago, Lord Nord said:

I was never threatened by the different types of Bolt Rifles and in fact enjoyed the differentiation it provided. I assume Hellblasters are going to be "gifted" with a similar "simplified but not simple (trust me, bro)" endumbening of their variant options.

 

Worst part is, I can't just ignore this nonsense because my main unit - Intercessors - will probably be pointed up to account for this new "perk"...

 

Consider my expectations for 10th lowered... considerably.

 

I'm sorry but already getting upset because the points cost of Intercessors might change in a new edition of the game where the foundational rules are changing is just ridiculous. You will never enjoy 40K or any other game with that mindset.  

[WrathOfTheLion]

2 minutes ago, Shinespider said:

People can say that nobody was being kept out of the game by Intercessors or whatever, and I'm sure that's technically true, but not being sure which of the three options is best - and being afraid of building the "wrong one" - is absolutely a source of anxiety for both new and old players. I'm pretty neutral on the change overall. 

 

I'm curious if Hellblasters will also have their three different plasma weapons crunched into one.

 

Transports will be cool to see but I'm still waiting on a damned psyker. 

It's certainly a handy change for me. I had built these intercessors and primed and airbrushed them abaddon black, but I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do with them. Now they can just become a second squad of Death Company intercessors without being weird.

[Doobles57]

Bolt rifles being consolidated is good. I know it was never really a major issue, but Intercessors essentially coming in 3 flavours on top of marines already having 6(?) troops options just seemed like variety for the sake of variety. For all the talk of them reducing most weapons AP, I kinda expected to seem bolt rifles become AP-. Suppose they still want to differentiate them from standard bolters.

 

Rending making a return (under a new name) is nice. Seems like a good way of handling that rule. Although shuriken weapons seem to have lost their version of it.

 

Twin linked being Reroll wounds is....interesting. If dual fists get that, I'm interested to see what lightning claws get. Anti-infantry keyword maybe?

 

7 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

 

Next article seems to finally be about certain transports. Finally.

Sounds like I'm going to like the answer to the question posed......we'll see.