Wh40k 10th Edition Weapons in 10th

[Khornestar]

Aggressors might have a shoot twice rule on their data sheet, perhaps? Even with reroll wounds 3 S4 shots isn’t… too exciting. 

[Blindhamster]

1 minute ago, Khornestar said:

Aggressors might have a shoot twice rule on their data sheet, perhaps? Even with reroll wounds 3 S4 shots isn’t… too exciting. 

On an elite choice, no it kinda sucks in fact. 
 

still, overall the weapon changes are interesting.

 

imo, the sustained fire rule is what twin linked should have been

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Don't forget, that's just just for the gauntlets.  Those guys also have the grenade packs, so even if they don't have a shoot-twice mechanic they will have more than 3 shots per model.

[Petitioner's City]

18 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

On an elite choice, no it kinda sucks in fact. 
 

still, overall the weapon changes are interesting.

 

imo, the sustained fire rule is what twin linked should have been

 

It's a bit of a deep cut but it actually recalls how (twin-linked) combi-bolters worked in 2nd edition!

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Petitioner's City

[Captain Idaho]

I think it's silly Bolters are AP-1 when Assault Cannons are AP-0 yet can rend, but the theme is likely bolt weapons are quite penetrative.

 

Oh forgot to say, loving Terminators having power fists that don't have a -1 to hit. Makes them extremely capable on the table.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[sitnam]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

I think it's silly Bolters are AP-1 when Assault Cannons are AP-0 yet can rend, but the theme is likely bolt weapons are quite penetrative.

Bolters likely don't have AP-1, bolt rifles do. I think it's a good way to differentiate Tacs/Legionaries against Intercessors. The former get special and heavy weapons, the latter have superior basic weapons

[Marshal Reinhard]

29 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

On an elite choice, no it kinda sucks in fact.

Straight up garbage really. There has to be some unseen benefit on the rest of the sheet, otherwise the unit makes no sense. Three shots at s4, 18 range? On a 3-6 unit?  But are elites werent a thing anymore either though, so guess its not competing for slots. Just competing for a reason to ever be taken

[sitnam]

1 minute ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Straight up garbage really. There has to be some unseen benefit on the rest of the sheet, otherwise the unit makes no sense. Three shots at s4, 18 range? On a 3-6 unit?  But are elites werent a thing anymore either though, so guess its not competing for slots. Just competing for a reason to ever be taken

They still have the frag launchers on the boltstorm variant. I wonder if those got a huff in return. Indirect fire would be nice

 

Now that I think about it, have we seen anything regarding grenades?

[Sir Clausel]

Maybe gravis armor just gets a shoot twice ability in general ? Pretty sure it would be too much really. Then they would be even more lethal than before and that seems to be against their design.

[Captain Idaho]

I think a shoot twice ability isn't ideal for them... consider if they remain stationary to do it they're not moving and are paying for being tough and power fisty. 

 

If they get it freely then why haven't they just got more shots on their profile instead of wasting time with another special rule no one needed?

 

I dunno. Aggressors needs something punchy (pun intended) if they can compete with Terminators, even a little. Right now teleport, better melee, superior defences (highly likely) just means they'll need something special to be worthwhile.

[phandaal]

Space Marine profiles should also be balanced around that Oaths of Moment ability, and any other abilities from their datasheet.

 

Twin-linked already rerolls wounds, but add a reroll hits and maybe throw in a new Gravis LT for precision hits or whatever it is and you will be cooking.

 

Or you could go with the true gentleman's aggressor build and use flamestorm gauntlets.

[Mostwanted]

I hope Hellblasters and Eradicators keep their different weapon profiles. The heavier versions with the cabling going into the back packs looks a lot different to the assault versions and would be weird to say they are all the same. I've just started modeling the assault plasmas on the hellblasters onto assault Intersessor bodies to give them a more active running look. Will seem a waste of time if the weapons are all the same.

[Marshal Loss]

Pleased that bolt rifles were consolidated (though I would have liked boltguns to be rolled in as well), but had hoped they'd lose their point of AP.

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

On an elite choice, no it kinda sucks in fact. 
 

still, overall the weapon changes are interesting.

 

imo, the sustained fire rule is what twin linked should have been

41 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Straight up garbage really. There has to be some unseen benefit on the rest of the sheet, otherwise the unit makes no sense. Three shots at s4, 18 range? On a 3-6 unit?  But are elites werent a thing anymore either though, so guess its not competing for slots. Just competing for a reason to ever be taken

 

I agree with @phandaal think we're going to see a lot of Flamestorm Gauntlets in the future. I am very disappointed because, as @Inquisitor_Lensoven noted, they're supposed to be a Fire Support unit and I really liked the image of Aggressors pumping bolts out. This has also got me thinking about Heavy Intercessors. What will happen to their weapon options?

 

20 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Space Marine profiles should also be balanced around that Oaths of Moment ability, and any other abilities from their datasheet.

 

Twin-linked already rerolls wounds, but add a reroll hits and maybe throw in a new Gravis LT for precision hits or whatever it is and you will be cooking.

OoM is powerful, but I do like that we're seeing how a Marine force can get mileage out of their units when there's more than one unit to deal with in a single turn.

[Marshal Reinhard]

22 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Or you could go with the true gentleman's aggressor build and use flamestorm gauntlets.

so range 8 1d6 hits str 4 ap 0 dmg 1 (twin linked?) <-- educated guess based on past version by comparison.

[Marshal Reinhard]

nvm

Edited April 14, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[sitnam]

42 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Or you could go with the true gentleman's aggressor build and use flamestorm gauntlets.

I don’t know if you’ve played Battle Sector, but deleting gaunt squads with frag barrages then blasting gargoyles with a hail of bolt shells is exquisite

[jaxom]

8 minutes ago, sitnam said:

I don’t know if you’ve played Battle Sector, but deleting gaunt squads with frag barrages then blasting gargoyles with a hail of bolt shells is exquisite

That’s the power fantasy, but the frag launchers better be amazing then.

[Blurf]

2 hours ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

I get where you're coming from. While I haven't had quite so drastic of a reaction, every rules article has included something that's made me feel less interested in 10th. I'm going to wait until we have the full picture, but the way they're going I think I'll be saving a lot of money that would be spend on 40k over the next 3 years, because so far 10th is making me more disinterested in 40k than I have ever been. I really do not like the way they are going and I don't think I'm going to want anything to do with 10th.

Neither one of you actually know anything about the edition yet. This is the 40k equivalent to that Calvin and Hobbes strip where Calvin freaks out over his mom making tortellini and then it smash cuts to him looking up what tortellini is in the dictionary.

[Halandaar]

Two Lascannons being just objectively worse if they are joined together was always something I found weird about the old twin linked rule that 8th/9th managed to somewhat resolve. It's still weird now but in a way the wound re-roll makes a bit more sense to me than the old hit re-roll - after all, both guns are firing at the same target from the same position, so you'd think they'd either both hit or both miss, so making twin-linked a damage bonus rather than an accuracy bonus seems better.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Halandaar

[Urkh]

I am hoping the consolidation of the bolt rifle means my primaris crusader squads will have the same gun as intercessors. Will make it much easier to use their minis as intercessors if I need to in the future. I very much do like wysiwyg on my minis.

[The Unseen]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

I think it's silly Bolters are AP-1 when Assault Cannons are AP-0 yet can rend, but the theme is likely bolt weapons are quite penetrative.

 

Oh forgot to say, loving Terminators having power fists that don't have a -1 to hit. Makes them extremely capable on the table.

I mean, irl miniguns don't so much penetrate a target as ablate it. Bolters have had a lot of individual power and some sort of super-diamond penetrator tip on them since forever; If GW can avoid giving AP-1 to every *other* factions basic troop that will cost between 1/2 and 1/4 of an intercessor, it'll be fine. Especially if Doctrines no longer hand out extra AP willy nilly, so the marine troops are just getting the 1 pip of AP. Every edition they buff the basic marine to start with because they're habitually terrible, but then give out similar increases to everyone else later on in the edition and we end up with marine bodies being given dramatic cuts in pts. And then the cycle repeats. Doing mortals on 6s to wound does a decent job of replicating what the AC has been in the past, an anti-infantry weapon that can do chip damage to vehicles, but has a chance of spiking and going BRRRT on something with rends.

Terminators having non-unwieldy powerfists is great, gives some boosts for the whole "these guys have been doing this for a long time" veterancy status. Sadly with the bolt rifle profile and the stormbolter profile being revealed, it looks like the bolter will continue to completely suck, and the lack of reveal around it makes me think that it staying completely mediocre will be the case, sucks to be a CSM or SoB I guess. Between that and Melta no longer being reliable at killing vehicles, I'm worried about Sisters, stuck with bad basic weapons and not having any fallbacks for anti-tank killing if Melta is as poor as it looks like its going to be. Wounding anything other than the weakest transport on a 5+ is just... real bad on a short ranged single shot weapon.

[Blurf]

4 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Ap in the old editions certainly lead to certain weapons being the obvious best choice, especially after the vehicle damage table changed to boost ap2 and added hull points.

 

But let's not pretend the change in the ap system eliminated that in any way. Did people take the onslaught gatling on the redemptor, or did they only ever take the plasma? Did people take missile launchers on tacs/devs or did they take multi meltas?

 

The only difference 8th/9th has over the earlier editions is that you can craft combos from various strats/relics/warlord traits/subfaction traits/powers and elevate some weapons past their basic statline, shifting what weapon is the optimal choice for that faction. 

 

The lack of intuitive survivability also just changed. Launch 8th people quickly figured out that guardsmen were more survivable against heavy bolters than Marines point for point. 

That's incredibly reductionist.

It wasn't just about 'having the best gun be super obvious', it was the fact that only 2 AP values were even SLIGHTLY relevant. If your weapon wasn't at least AP-3, it functionally didn't have AP. If the weapon was better than AP-2, it only mattered for Penetrating hits on vehicles.

The old system was stupid because out 8 total possible AP values, 6 of them were completely irrelevant. I played marines for all of 6th and 7th and I can't think of one single time I actually used the AP4 on the bolters. If they didn't have 3+ armor, they had an invul. If they didn't have an Invul, they had cover, if they didn't have any of that, I forgot about the AP and killed the whole unit anyway.

[marspeople]

How does Lethal Hits react with Devastating Wounds?

Does an auto wound count as a 6?

[INKS]

15 minutes ago, marspeople said:

How does Lethal Hits react with Devastating Wounds?

Does an auto wound count as a 6?

I doubt it, my guess would be that you have to actually roll a 6.