Rumour Valrak trusted rumor: Firstborn Land Speeder and Firstborn Dreadnought going to legends

[Special Officer Doofy]

This kind of went right into a first born vs Primaris thing. Let's take a chill pill guys, maybe lock the thread until cooler heads can prevail.

[Interrogator Stobz]

1 minute ago, Redcomet said:

Almost like getting people to buy an entire new range of minis has slightly better business prospects than remaking the same things over and over. 

 

“But they could add to the range” i hear you say.

 

We where all there when they did that, and every single new addition to the range got blasted with hatred from the grognards. 
 

Added to this there is also the creative aspect. The designers wanting to do new things, instead of “do a new tactical squad again” 

Did I say that?

Nope.

 

Who loves Leviathan and Contemptor and Spartan and Proteus and all the Aircraft and etc.etc. the list just keeps going. 

Answer: Grognards.

The success of the HH proves your premise wrong. We will happily play them in 40k too.

 

We don't mind you having Primaris, but you don't seem to want our group to have access to options we like.

That doesn't seem fair minded.

[Orange Knight]

This is a big issue for people, we all understand this. There is a misconception that Primaris players are happy about this.

 

Unfortunately I have also seen comments such as "If I had the money to buy GW I would retcon and erase the Primaris from existence" pop up in this topic.

 

It has been 6 years since the Primaris were introduced, I think the above attitude isn't conducive to a positive hobby experience for anyone.

[Urauloth]

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

"The Warhammer 40,000 Legends page contains datasheets and additional wargear options, definitive profiles that will live on their own dedicated page, enabling you to unleash your treasured classics in open, narrative and matched play games, with full points provided to help you balance your games."

 

The only place these units are not accepted are if a tournament organizer says so.

They do say so, though. Legends units don't get balance updates or FAQs unless something changed on that front, so most TOs rule them out. If you're in an area where pick-up games are 100% tournament practice, you aren't going to see or use any Legends units any more than you're going to play any Narrative games.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

GW has a commercial need to periodically add to the Space Marine range, they have done since Rogue Trader. New units get added, old sculpts are replaced and the replaced models get retired. I'm sure we'd be having this conversation whenever the old old land speeder went oop. 

 

We'll be having this conversation in 20 years when the redemptor is retired. 

 

GW hit a wall in their creativity and we got things like centurians. Total range refresh was the only way to go imo. I say that because, GW are gonna do it whether you like it or not.

[sarabando]

3 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

GW has a commercial need to periodically add to the Space Marine range, they have done since Rogue Trader. New units get added, old sculpts are replaced and the replaced models get retired. I'm sure we'd be having this conversation whenever the old old land speeder went oop. 

 

We'll be having this conversation in 20 years when the redemptor is retired. 

 

GW hit a wall in their creativity and we got things like centurians. Total range refresh was the only way to go imo. I say that because, GW are gonna do it whether you like it or not.

when they replace the redemptor at the rate they are going the new dread would be the size of a toddler. 

 

on topic i will need to up my plans of getting another venerable dread, Baal predator and first born command squad again before they go and triple in price on ebay. 

[siegfriedfr]

19 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Did I say that?

Nope.

 

Who loves Leviathan and Contemptor and Spartan and Proteus and all the Aircraft and etc.etc. the list just keeps going. 

Answer: Grognards.

The success of the HH proves your premise wrong. We will happily play them in 40k too.

 

We don't mind you having Primaris, but you don't seem to want our group to have access to options we like.

That doesn't seem fair minded.

Primaris is just a word which encompass a concept you seem to despise and separate from "pure" Space Marines. If we talk lore, yes the whole thing was stupid, but its done now.

 

If we talk models? Those are Space Marines with an updated design, sure there are some questionable models, but they are mostly just marines 2.0. Call them firstborn, convince yourself that GW upgraded and upscaled the design, and suddenly, the fact they are called "primaris" is irrelevant : they are still the same dudes in power armour who will kick xenos and chaos butt.

 

Lets be frank, if GW had released updated marine design in the vein of the Deathwatch/Space Marine Heroes, if they had not upscaled Primaris compared to firstborn, i'd have been happy about it. But its done, and it works, and they look very good. We have plastic HH if we want oldmarines, they are going to expand it, maybe upgrade all the armor Marks kits, and i'm content with it !

[Captain Idaho]

40 minutes ago, siegfriedfr said:

Imo the main problem people have with old units not getting replaced, seem to be tournament play, rules for Legended units, and the WYSIWYG that goes on there.

It's a 1% problem, therefore not something that should sparkle bitter debate, but acceptance and moving on.

 

In casual play, I have no problem with someone putting a Castraferrum on the table and saying its a Redemptor, if it has a fist and something that ressemble a gun.

Its not anything like someone asking to play a land speeder instead of a Falchion.

 

Embrace the new design and stop sticking to stuff that was made decades ago with limited sculpting possibilities like its some sort of Golden Goose.

 

I would contest that it's a 1% thing. Of course we don't know the percentage of how many customers play events, but regardless of that, there are more than just tournament players who might be upset that their models are legends, for reasons of balance etc that have already been raised.

 

Many of us here have that opinion and certainly don't make up 1% of the posters in this topic, for example.

 

I do agree that you're good for allowing count as, but there are plenty of people who don't, or clubs that don't and it all gets a little complicated. 

 

Still think it doesn't have to be so difficult anyway. As mentioned, they could update rules easily enough with PDFs.

[Kallas]

33 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

1: You are demanding that GW keeps the entire range going in perpetuity, even though it has led to an extremely bloated and unfriendly codex that gets update piecemeal to the detriment of players. It also dwarfs other factions. They have decided to create the Primaris, it's as simple as that - both the corporate and creative arms of GW wanted this.

So if they remove Primaris in 5 years time, that will be ok? If they decide to remove Votann again, will that be ok? This is functionally the same thing: remove the old, push the new. Should they increase the speed with which they do this, because wouldn't that be better for business? Yes, but also no, because by removing actively supported units, they are damaging their goodwill - as I said, I rebought into Marines in 8th after leaving around the start of 6th; Primaris were the new thing, but they'd also made the statement that Primaris weren't replacements (clearly a lie, and one people called them out on, only for people like you to call it unfounded) so why shouldn't people buy Firstborn stuff? But then if they're going to yank support for Firstborn 6 years later, how is that good? They're going back on their word, and it is a betrayal of the line, and the people who collect them, that made them what they are today.

 

And yet a-bloody-gain, the faction is only as bloated as it is because Primaris duplicated unit roles that already existed. You deny this, but it's just true - Primaris have made the line bloated, and if it's truly bad for the new player...why the hell make a massive expansion to the roster in the way they did? It's extremely obnoxious the way you claim the Marine line is bloated but completely ignore the fact that Primaris are the biggest culprit of the bloat.

 

33 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

2: How do you determine that it isn't? Primaris are extremely popular, they sold big and ushered in the biggest period of growth for GW. I see them everywhere, most people are actively investing in and collecting them. I obviously don't have the figures, I imagine few do. I don't know anyone in person that ha rejected them - these individuals do exist, I am sure of it, but the internet has amplified their voice.

You made the claim that it was a small, narrative focused minority.

Nobody said Primaris weren't popular or successful; but you said that a small, narrative focused minority wants to dictate the focus of the future of Marines. It being Firstborn has nothing to do with being narrative; there are plenty of Primaris folks who are narratively focused, but you say that like it's a problem?

 

24 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Unfortunately I have also seen comments such as "If I had the money to buy GW I would retcon and erase the Primaris from existence" pop up in this topic.

And you have consistently called for the outright removal of Firstborn long before that comment was made in this thread. Do not act high and mighty, you are as much a part of the division as anyone else is.

[Mazer Rackham]

12 minutes ago, sarabando said:

when they replace the redemptor at the rate they are going the new dread would be the size of a toddler. 

 

I'll ask the wife to 3d print me one of those, then. Trouble is, it will take 9 months and a bit of fiddling around. Cost a fortune in resin. It will be pre-supported, though. Might need to homebrew a datasheet.

[Halandaar]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

We have to accept that certain models will be retired or replaced from time to time.

 

Retired and replaced are obviously different things; I don't think (for the most part) people are really concerned about old Guardians or Cadians or Khorne Berserkers being replaced by their respective new versions.

 

Your logic appears to be that the Redemptor-chassis Dreadnoughts are direct replacements for the Castraferrum ones and therefore this is just part of the natural cycle of updating and upscaling things. That may turn out to be the case in the long run but GW has made a problem for themselves now by not considering them to be the same thing in both the lore and the rules, keeping the old ones in production and having them compete against each other for spots in your collection. Space Marines are the only faction they have done this with; imagine them keeping the old Necron Monolith in production and having them be different units in the Codex.

 

If the Redemptor had come out as "this is our vision for what Dreadnoughts should be and therefore you can consider it to be the new standard, all old Dreadnoughts will use their profile now and for competitive games you need to stick them on 90mm bases" then fine, we should naturally have expected the box dreads to be retired as their loadouts were gradually replaced, just as with any other kit in any other range. But GW made this problem for themselves with the Space Marine range by insisting the new stuff was different and concurrent to the old stuff, rather than a replacement.

 

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Supporting a massive range of models, some of which are old and perhaps don't sell, will ultimately create issues. GW don't have infinite resources or storage space

 

I think it bears pointing out that GW had previously used this logic to discontinue an entire mainline game system (Warhammer Fantasy), along with 2 full miniature ranges (Tomb Kings, Bretonnia) and a good chunk of several others. And yet, barely 8 years after the release of Age of Sigmar we know they are already a few years into a presumably very expensive project to resurrect that system and put those miniatures back into production. Point is that decisions to remove products from the range entirely without a like-for-like replacement are not necessarily good ones just because the numbers of the day say so.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Halandaar

[Blindhamster]

I mean, this thread went more or less exactly as it was probably always going to go.

 

Perhaps GW will change how legends works for the new edition? That would maybe be a way to resolve it.

 

If this rumour is even true (i know its from Valraks trusted sources, but still may not be), I wonder what the actual reasons are. Is it based on number of tournament players actually using the units? Is it based on sales? Perhaps its based on the molds being on their way out? If its the last one, it sort of makes sense, as much as it sucks, because GW are under no obligation to renew molds, and from their perspective I suspect they do view the new speeder and redemptor variants as fairly direct replacements...

 

Some other food for thought... marine players are basically just feeling what other faction players have felt for years. Sure they don't necessarily always lose "units", but they have lost some over the years, more commonly, they lose options. This is typically because GW no longer produce the set (or never did). It's always sucked, but it's always been part of the game. The only difference is that where other factions have straight up lost things, marines have tended to hold on to options and units longer, and in this instance the two (supposed) units to be dropped have at least rough equivalents already available.

 

Ultimately, primaris were not handled well, but even had they been released without the slightly dodgy lore, there was never a guarantee that all existing options would remain on any unit. GW wanted to try something new with marines, it's been broadly well received from a model perspective, and poorly received from a lore perspective. What they really should have done is focused on providing some level of support and advice on their plan for the future, they also should have tried to at least attempt to do things so that it would be easy to counts as for existing units.

 

It's perfectly valid and reasonable to be angry, upset or frustrated at the possible inability to use old models competitively, it's perfectly unreasonable to take it out on people that are enjoying the new stuff GW has done. I don't think anyone that prefers primaris is happy people that don't may lose the ability to play some of their stuff competitively, personally I'd like it if everyone got to use their toys how they liked.

 

But ultimately, we are where we are, logically older things that now sell less and likely are getting to late life from a mold perspective is the things we should expect to see get dropped. If GW doesn't produce a model, it goes to legends, simple as that, this has even happened with a primaris model on release. GW are sadly not beholden to us to invest on new molds for things that either don't fit their plans or perhaps are not selling, but I really don't imagine they'd drop units for reasons other than they can't produce them anymore. As someone that had a huge high elf army for WHFB, I get it, it sucks. I've similarly had to break apart many marines over the last few decades due to options no longer being valid, hell I'm looking at my intercessors with uniform bolt rifles and feeling like they need to be tweaked now as the rule change that most people liked just makes it feel pointless to keep them all the same now.

 

Anyway, fingers crossed we get some kind of update and they inform us that actually legends is changing somehow to be supported and valid in tournaments maybe. If the rumours of better e-tools are true, with datasheets etc getting updated directly via that, I could actually see that being a thing.

 

edit

 

Still personally think they could just say that the two kinds of dreads share a datasheet, and you can use them for either.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Redcomet]

14 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

 

Retired and replaced are obviously different things; I don't think (for the most part) people are really concerned about old Guardians or Cadians or Khorne Berserkers being replaced by their respective new versions.

 

Your logic appears to be that the Redemptor-chassis Dreadnoughts are direct replacements for the Castraferrum ones and therefore this is just part of the natural cycle of updating and upscaling things. That may turn out to be the case in the long run but GW has made a problem for themselves now by not considering them to be the same thing in both the lore and the rules, keeping the old ones in production and having them compete against each other for spots in your collection. Space Marines are the only faction they have done this with; imagine them keeping the old Necron Monolith in production and having them be different units in the Codex.

 

If the Redemptor had come out as "this is our vision for what Dreadnoughts should be and therefore you can consider it to be the new standard, all old Dreadnoughts will use their profile now and for competitive games you need to stick them on 90mm bases" then fine, we should naturally have expected the box dreads to be retired as their loadouts were gradually replaced, just as with any other kit in any other range. But GW made this problem for themselves with the Space Marine range by insisting the new stuff was different and concurrent to the old stuff, rather than a replacement.

 

 

I think it bears pointing out that GW had previously used this logic to discontinue an entire mainline game system (Warhammer Fantasy), along with 2 full miniature ranges (Tomb Kings, Bretonnia) and a good chunk of several others. And yet, barely 8 years after the release of Age of Sigmar we know they are already a few years into a presumably very expensive project to resurrect that system and put those miniatures back into production. Point is that decisions to remove products from the range are not always good ones.

 

Or i dunno, maybe the new life and success that AoS has brought with it, the influx of new players. Has made it viable to have a second fantastic wargame going. Or the popularity of the video game has brought in a large crowd of potential new players. But no it can’t be that.

[Toxichobbit]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

This is a big issue for people, we all understand this. There is a misconception that Primaris players are happy about this.

 

6 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I don't think anyone that prefers primaris is happy people that don't may lose the ability to play some of their stuff competitively, personally I'd like it if everyone got to use their toys how they liked.

 

 

If only this were true. Unfortunately, it's not. There are Primaris players out there who are celebrating the demise of Firstborn. And they've been celebrating and encouraging it for a long time. I've seen it plenty on these very forums, but also from influencers on YouTube & Instagram, on Reddit & DakkaDakka, in Discord channels and I suspect anywhere else that Marines are discussed online. As I'm typing this, I can see in the "Recently Browsing" section below the post that there's names I recognise that have been saying it recently.

 

It's very real and it's a particularly nasty, petty and spiteful way of behaving, just like the Primaris hate.

[TrawlingCleaner]

=][= We already have several Primaris vs Firstborn discussions in the Space Marine subforum, if you wish to discuss it further that would be the place to do so. I understand that this topic and Primaris equivilents are intertwined and is a difficult subject, so let's keep it focused on Dreads and Speeders. Let's not turn this topic into a firefight, if you see a particularly heated comment, report it and move on so we can deal with it =][=

[conscriptboris]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Damn...imagine not liking innovation irl.

 

Trying to think of how many companies world wide have kept their same products unchanged for 30ish years...

Apple is getting close....

 

Well I dont do tournaments (like the majority of the hobby), so legends is okay for now. Gives my units a bit more life.

Edited April 20, 2023 by conscriptboris

[FarFromSam]

2 hours ago, Redcomet said:

This. And honestly the people that play with the same minis for decades, aren’t really the key consumer companies are after.

 

This is a tough idea to wrap my head around.  The same people who play for decades... are the ones who buy the most product.   Idk, that's just such a massive contradiction in one sentence.   Massive piles of grey shame exist... when a range gets updated with better looking models players buy them...  heck... how old are termagaunts?  This isn't even the first time they've been updated... Tenth is going to update that range again and not dumpster existing models.   So, does GW really think as you've said? 

 

The remarks about "imagine resisting new and improved."  Is primaris lore an improvement in any way?  That's why this stinks of short sighted, share holder nonsense.  It's not because a group of the hobby dislikes change, ( how many editions did nearly every rule change?) It's about gw planning their models to be obsolete, and shoe horning in terrible fluff. 

 

I love the new Mk X armor.  They are a better scale,  more details, and still allow for swapping heads and shoulders.  Saying those models are anything but a glow up of a first born marine is silly.   Currently, as we speak, GW is eloquently updating lines of models without making models obsolete.  The reason they aren't doing that with marines is because they want to fleece their consumers.   I think that's a bad practice for company who preaches building community.  

 

I do not want 14 separate dreadnought sheets (I kind of do though xoxo 30k)  I do not need FB tactical squad datasheets and intercessor datasheets.  All I want is for a reasonable opponent to be able to look at my army recognize what counts as what.  And that's on me to put in the effort to make it easy for them.

 

But don't act like legends isn't relegating units to the trash, or that some of the new marine units aren't cash grabs.  Silly.

 

There is a way to update a range that makes old players happy and draws in new players too.  GW are the ones who invented it, and have been doing so for years.  Why they didn't here is disappointing.

 

Oops was writing before trawlingcleaner posted.  Sorry.

Edited April 20, 2023 by farfromsam

[Orange Knight]

Why did GW do something different?

 

Perhaps they didn't want to just create the same units again, with the same lore and the same limitations.

 

I pointed this out already, but the Primaris were liked by corporate and creative.

 

As for the quality of the core lore, it's not objectively better OR worse.

It has, however, led to some very exciting novels and plot developments that are probably the most exciting outside of the various Horus Heresy revelations.

[Not An Ork]

As a kid who first found GW in RT days, I've inevitably seen and owned many a model that has been replaced or discontinued over the years. For the most part, I've generally always liked the replacements, and usually they have been for the  better. The old metal landspeeder always broke the stand, the 3rd Ed plastic one was awful to assemble (or beyond my ability), the pre-box dreads were goofy, the RT marines were weirdly shaped. But I affectionately love all of those still, even if I don't own any, anymore. Nor, realistically, would I buy any as I'm not a retro collector - I love the new stuff in the main. Jury out on a couple, but that's down to my preference, and I'm okay that not everything GW produces needs to be a home run. I'm just glad they keep swinging, it's up to me if I like it or not, and I don't need to buy in to the lore or the full range 100% in order to enjoy my hobby.

 

I do understand that there are so many factors at play in seeing things change, from personal preference to sentimentality, to personal reward and attachment to something you assembled, painted, and gamed with. Seeing the sun go down on those has to be a bitter pill for a lot of people, and I get that. But I also think its unrealistic to resent change, as everything always changes. And it is unfortunate that for some people the change from what they new and liked is to something they don't like, and tat this generates genuine anger, from something that was once and enjoyable hobby. But I also think that the solution isn't to just always make the same but newer, and I personally don't think that that the marine line would really have been as successful if it was just another iterative range refresh and the models on the shelves were just upscaled tacticals, assualts and devesators. I pretty much returned to the hobby because of how cool I thought the Primaris range and lore was. But that's just me. 

 

I have sympathy for people facing the end of the run for a line of models they liked. I can't say I have much sympathy for the levels of anger it generates as I've seen the same changes, and have found them exciting. To me, enjoying the hobby doesn't mean it has to stay the same. And asking GW to keep producing the same models forever while also expanding to keep it fresh would also lead to bloat. And telling GW they perfected 40k in 1997 (or pick the date you favourite model came out) would be incorrect. I can't see a world in which GW still produced RT and 2nd ed models (cough @ warpspiders) and still produced new models, and didn't go out of business by having to carry too many product lines that hit overall profitability - as much as I wish the Guard still had all the regiments, I get why they don't any more. 

 

I wonder how angry the fandoms would have been if the internet and all it's connectivity existed in the days of the Model T Ford, or the days of the musket. Would there have been extremely angry groups saying that Ford needs to go out of business because it wants to produce a new model, or that the breechloading rifle was a ridiculously complex waste of resources and it was a mistake for anyone to try reinventing the rifle? I'm pretty sure there would have been, and I don't think they'd have been right. 

[phandaal]

13 minutes ago, Toxichobbit said:

If only this were true. Unfortunately, it's not. There are Primaris players out there who are celebrating the demise of Firstborn. And they've been celebrating and encouraging it for a long time. I've seen it plenty on these very forums, but also from influencers on YouTube & Instagram, on Reddit & DakkaDakka, in Discord channels and I suspect anywhere else that Marines are discussed online. As I'm typing this, I can see in the "Recently Browsing" section below the post that there's names I recognise that have been saying it recently.

 

It's very real and it's a particularly nasty, petty and spiteful way of behaving, just like the Primaris hate.

 

This is very true. The saddest part is people making fun of the models' height and age, as if they were real people. 

 

Some day we will all be united when Games Workshop releases their brand spanking new Supremis Marines. Cooler, newer, and at least 3mm taller than your dad's dumb old Marines.

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, Redcomet said:

Or i dunno, maybe the new life and success that AoS has brought with it, the influx of new players. Has made it viable to have a second fantastic wargame going. Or the popularity of the video game has brought in a large crowd of potential new players. But no it can’t be that.

 

Okay? I mean these are probably the two exact reasons it's worth doing and I never stated otherwise, but it doesn't do anything to dispute my original point which is that just removing stuff from production isn't necessarily a good idea.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Halandaar

[chapter master 454]

I mean...trying to look at this...the current dreadnoughts are fairly iconic. I would say that the new redemptor chassis is more replumptor than redemption (unless its redeeming a food coupon!) and I kind of like a lot of things about it but...I feel lore-wise I guess we'll just completely retcon redemptors being 2.0 leviathan dreadnoughts and have venerable redemptors at some point. Heck...even now I call them redemptors not dreadnoughts because I am an old man who still loves the original design that does work.

Suppose its just a change thing but still...it would upset the living metal out of Iron Hands to invalidate that much of their preference. Not to mention wouldn't that then mean stormravens would possibly have a legend only unit they could carry? I know they can change that but still.

 

Land speeders...hmm...lets be frank the model is dated as all get out and I feel has been one of those odd-ball units in space marines you find and go "what the...why do they have this?" as it doesn't really seem like a space marine thing other than being a hanger on from the Horus Heresy. They are cool but...ah I can't really weigh in too much on them but they've never been all that Iconic to space marines, even among white scars who really only used them as far as I saw purely to just stay on theme.

[Kallas]

21 minutes ago, Not An Ork said:

I wonder how angry the fandoms would have been if the internet and all it's connectivity existed in the days of the Model T Ford, or the days of the musket. Would there have been extremely angry groups saying that Ford needs to go out of business because it wants to produce a new model, or that the breechloading rifle was a ridiculously complex waste of resources and it was a mistake for anyone to try reinventing the rifle? I'm pretty sure there would have been, and I don't think they'd have been right. 

Ah yes, let me hop in my Rhino and go trade it in for a shiny new Impulsor, that's definitely the same thing isn't it? 

 

Real-world practical application of new things is extremely different to a hobby involving miniatures. Fundamentally, we all know that this is a niche hobby, but with that comes the costs of a niche hobby - time, effort, and money - and to have ones investments severely reduced (as mentioned previously, not every single model is physically decades old: there will have been plenty of sales of older kits in recent months, even if it's relatively low compared to Primaris because...y'know, GW pushes Primaris super hard), as well as having that reduction egged on by others in the community is pretty infuriating.

 

The car equivalent would be if you invest in fine tuning your car to be as optimal as possible (fuel consumption, weight distribution, etc) only for the manufacturer to put out a mandatory recall on some of the parts you require because they made a new one thats...functionally the same just new, invalidating the effort by reducing what you've been putting your time, effort and money into for no particular reason other than they have a new part to sell you. Ok, maybe that analogy is weird, I don't drive and I don't do mechanics, so I'm winging it 

Just now, chapter master 454 said:

I would say that the new redemptor chassis is more replumptor than redemption (unless its redeeming a food coupon!)

[happyslugger]

I don't think there is a particular way for GW to make everyone happy with the marine line.

 

Ultimately, they are a business there to make profit, so there have to be sales of some sort.  The marine line is their largest I believe, so an easy(ier) market to promote NEW models and toys.

 

When primaris first came out, I spoke with the GW store manager who said he believed they would be the future line up.  Since then, I sold virtually all my FB model, marines, dreads, tanks, the lot.  I haven't purchased a FB kit for my BA since they were introduced.  I just thought, well I may as well try and get some money for them whilst they are still used - but I wasn't attached to the models as some people may be.  It's a hobby and that is it.  I pick it up as and when I want.  If they squat primaris in the future - so be it.  The fact I will have some models and spent time and money on them isn't really relevant to GW shareholders and the requirement to make profit.  If they squat them I can either sell up again or leave them in the cabinet or even worse bin them.  I don't play competitions and such, so if we just want to use old rules and say X model looks like X but now its the new Y model it doesn't matter to us.

 

If they squat models and update the legends for a while that may help but from a business perspective they want and need people to by models.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[excelite]

4 hours ago, Toxichobbit said:

... There are Primaris players out there who are celebrating the demise of Firstborn. And they've been celebrating and encouraging it for a long time….

Those people are idiots and should not be listened to. Concerning marines I’m a 100% primaris player and don’t give the slightest crap what others field.

Only thing I care about is my stuff and I know for sure that I’ll never buy any of the old models as I personally think they look like crap and outdated.

 

sure, the rescaled HH firstborn look nice, however I still prefer the added details from the primaris range.

 

people need to stop trying to make others feel bad if they don’t share their opinion.

 

I’m pretty sure at some point in time the current models will move to legends as well. Personally I’m arranged with that.

Edited April 20, 2023 by excelite