Speculation on the Horus Heresy Road Map?

[Gorgoff]

4 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

Sisters of Silence would be an interesting twist as the new army. Definitely the one few are expecting. 

Just like the spanish inquisition. Which fits their narrative as well if you think of it.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Gorgoff

[Noserenda]

58 minutes ago, Dezron said:

 

Are you sure you're not mixing 30k and 40k Dark Admech together? 

 

Also current Liber Mechanicus has Traitor characters in it. So I really wouldn't hype myself up for big 30k Dark Admech release. 

Thats literally what you were doing? This post is exactly the kind of nonsense that needs a confused react...

58 minutes ago, Dezron said:

 

Are you sure you're not mixing 30k and 40k Dark Admech together? 

 

Also current Liber Mechanicus has Traitor characters in it. So I really wouldn't hype myself up for big 30k Dark Admech release. 

Thats literally what you were doing? This post is exactly the kind of nonsense that needs a confused react...

[Dezron]

57 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Thats literally what you were doing? This post is exactly the kind of nonsense that needs a confused react...

 

You know what? 

 

Let's agree to disagree for now. We can go back to this argument in Winter or late Fall or whenever GW start teasing this Army. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

10 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Not really, im dismissing the probable cooincidence of Codex Adeptus Mechanicus getting released in the same quarter as evidence of a Mechanicum release. A Custode codex possibly 3 months later is well into cooincidence territory and i dont think anyone is arguing otherwise. 

Though i do hope we get a Knight Centura kit at least if its one of the Codexes just getting a hero & book. :D 

My point is that any association with 40k is absurd, which goes both ways. Both it doesn't advance the likelihood of the faction getting units, nor does it decrease the chance. Although talking in chances is a little bit incorrect, as the decision has been purposefully made, that's just our perception on why we might think it goes one way or the other.

 

To me, the simple two most 'likely' options are Sisters of Silence due to the new datasheets or Mechanicum simply because they're probably the most popular non-SM army (maybe Custodes now are a bit more popular simply because of cost of entry/crossover with 40k?), with no current plastic range supporting them.

Edited May 4, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Gorgoff]

I am pretty sure we will see plastic SA.

[No Foes Remain]

Did someone way back find some flamer Auxilia models in the Liber Imperium that don't don't match their current models? More than likely that they're done on CAD (probably printed the first prototypes as well) but just in their massive backlog that is their releases.

 

 

Edit:

Rear cover inlet, that flamer section is different to the one of the FW site. Arms and flamers are slightly different, arms are like the bog standard Auxilia arms and the flamers seem to have a little 'pod' under the flamer where the fuel hose connects to.

Edited May 4, 2023 by No Foes Remain

[oldhat]

16 hours ago, Dezron said:

That leaves:

• Custodes
• Sisters of Silence 
• Admech
• Solaris Auxilia 
• Imperial Army

Besides that we have left Knights (unlikely) and... 

 

Titan Legions... (hahaha, yeah right like that would ever happen outside of Epic). 

 

That's all for non-Marine factions. 

 

I am realizing that Sisters have a bunch of new units with no model support. I am leaning that way now.

[lansalt]

What if the illustration with the new mkIII marines, a proteus LR, and the plastic Deredeo is the cover for a new boxset? It's almost a match to the one used for the AoD box.

[SkimaskMohawk]

13 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

 

The HH 2.0 re-launch has basically been a stealth setup for cross selling to 40k players at this point. The emphasis on mk VI, the priority on vehicles and LoW, along with plastic infantry releases being a low priority for a game that has been designed with an infantry focus. I feel I will be vindicated when the 40k 10th Ed SM, mechanicum and knights codexes release, along with the next arc of 40k campaign books. The mk III redesign is for new people who bemone the existing kits as "squat marines". The next armour mark after mk III will certainly be mk IV redesign, just wait and see. 

 

The edition is certainly there to generate interest to drive the model sales. The lack of  balance curation kinda underscores how much value they put on the actual rules. Ironically, they fumbled the rules update so badly that vehicles are one of the least good units, losing out to dreads, heavy supports, speeders and rapiers when it comes to being dedicated weapon platforms.

 

Them only starting to design assault marines also shows the disconnect.

 

 

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

The edition is certainly there to generate interest to drive the model sales. The lack of  balance curation kinda underscores how much value they put on the actual rules. Ironically, they fumbled the rules update so badly that vehicles are one of the least good units, losing out to dreads, heavy supports, speeders and rapiers when it comes to being dedicated weapon platforms.

 

Them only starting to design assault marines also shows the disconnect.

 

 

Have you ruled out incompetence? 

[Dezron]

I feel those plastic Melee Weapons will replace those various upgrade sets. That's pretty obvious. 

 

Maybe they will also throw some Terminator weapons too. 

 

What's more.... new Dreadnought melee weapons? Probably not, but always an options. 

 

Wonder how they're gonna package it thourgh.

 

Maybe one box is 20 Chainswords and 20 Bolt Pistols? 

 

Special Pistols (Volkite, Plasma, etc.) might get separete box or be mixed Power Weapons. 

 

Everything else will probably get separete box. 

 

Or maybe will get one big box like Special Weapons Uograde Set. 

 

 

 

 

[arnesh88]

1 hour ago, Dezron said:

I feel those plastic Melee Weapons will replace those various upgrade sets. That's pretty obvious. 

 

Maybe they will also throw some Terminator weapons too. 

 

What's more.... new Dreadnought melee weapons? Probably not, but always an options. 

 

Wonder how they're gonna package it thourgh.

 

Maybe one box is 20 Chainswords and 20 Bolt Pistols? 

 

Special Pistols (Volkite, Plasma, etc.) might get separete box or be mixed Power Weapons. 

 

Everything else will probably get separete box. 

 

Or maybe will get one big box like Special Weapons Uograde Set. 

 

 

 

 

I think a lot depends on if they'll be replacing whole arms or just hands. If the later, they can fit a lot more in a box. I wouldn't be surprised if they also double as an upgrade to make Destroyer Squads. If they include just regular backpacks for the Assault Squad box, then that covers a lot of options (Veteran options, both flavors of destroyers, despoilers, etc).

[Noserenda]

A sprue of 10 Bolt pistols and chainswords would be obvious, you would need arms to make despoilers though as the tactical box ones are really limited without chopping, then chuck on some heavy chainswords or power weapons if you have a little space.

Unfortunately the reveal they have done some in resin makes that less likely, though they never have shown up, so maybe they realised the mistake and delayed them for plastic tooling? 

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Have you ruled out incompetence? 

 

I kinda use "disconnect" to mean incompetence lol. If you don't understand the systems you're adjusting and the impact it results in, then you're not being responsible. And if you're not responsible in your role, then you're.... incompetent. 

[bushman101]

2 hours ago, arnesh88 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they also double as an upgrade to make Destroyer Squads.

The mkIV Destroyers had extra armor plates on them, compared to mkIV Assault/Tact. Not saying they wouldn't make a upgrade for mkVI Destroyers, but they would be changing the precedent if they did.

[WrathOfTheLion]

6 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Them only starting to design assault marines also shows the disconnect.

If they're planning for a release in 6-7m (if on time), then the design has to already be done and possibly even the molds are manufactured or are in the process of being manufactured.

[spessmarine]

48 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

If they're planning for a release in 6-7m (if on time), then the design has to already be done and possibly even the molds are manufactured or are in the process of being manufactured.

 

Yeah, WE went from leaks to pics real fast. Renders are shown well after completion, slotted as part of the marketing cycle rather than design workflow.

[SkimaskMohawk]

22 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

If they're planning for a release in 6-7m (if on time), then the design has to already be done and possibly even the molds are manufactured or are in the process of being manufactured.

 

Yea maybe "starting" was wrong, though they could have shown 3d printed, painted, master instead of render to move the perception of their progress along. Regardless, the second plastic compulsory troop coming out 18 months into the edition, after a cavalcade of tanks, is what I mean. Melee troops are legion and archetype defining in a way that vehicles arent.

[WrathOfTheLion]

49 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Yea maybe "starting" was wrong, though they could have shown 3d printed, painted, master instead of render to move the perception of their progress along. Regardless, the second plastic compulsory troop coming out 18 months into the edition, after a cavalcade of tanks, is what I mean. Melee troops are legion and archetype defining in a way that vehicles arent.

As @spessmarine mentioned, they have this weird thing where they always want to show off the render, even if the model is probably already painted for the box art. There's a chance in this case they rushed it and they're not quite finished painting them, but since they paint 3d printed copies and not actual plastic manufactured ones, they usually have those done even before they start manufacturing.

 

I guess in their mind it shows like this visual progression of like 'farther away' to 'close', even if it doesn't have any actual bearing on its real progress.

 

As for the tanks, I can only imagine there was some mandate from heaven (i.e., high up on the corporate chain) to get those resin tanks out of the warehouse. That's what makes sense to me, hopefully now that is out of the way, we see some reoriented priorities.

Edited May 5, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Brother Sutek]

On 5/3/2023 at 5:45 PM, Petitioner's City said:

 

Oh I love the 2nd edition metals (still own a few!), but I still am partial to the death guard by Pastourel. I think Eternal Hunt captured it well when they said the modern Death Guard leaned into a medieval style, which itself connotes to me things like Blanche and Gibbon's art in the 96 Codex Chaos, or the mesh of fantasy and science fiction of the Realms of Chaos books and indeed the 96 Codex.

 

But if you want to you, you can read Maxime's blog about creating them, or if you can find it back in twitch from 2017, an interview with him about designing Mortarion.

I gave it a quick look but I'm at work. Once I get home I'll give them a read. Thanks I handt seen any of those before.

[Noserenda]

I never put much stock in renders, got burned pretty badly in the kickstarter boom by models that barely resembled them, whether they were just jazzed up for marketing or they tweaked them post launch for whatever reason i have no idea, but always wait for the plastic/resin/3d master to judge :D 

Its pretty obvious the AoD launch was delayed, uncoordinated and generally a weird mix of optimism and pessimism from SG, its certainly hurt the game pretty badly in places but im cautiously optimistic myself right now that once they reconfigure the releases to fit the sales and run out a proper FAQ and balance pass  things will level out tolerably ;) 

And i do think they need the latter, i can understand not wanting 6 monthly tweaks but at this point we have gaping holes in the rules and points problems twisting the game into odd shapes and its better to fix that than sit with your fingers in your ears and rely on us to do it! 

[dickyelsdon]

4 hours ago, Noserenda said:

I never put much stock in renders, got burned pretty badly in the kickstarter boom by models that barely resembled them, whether they were just jazzed up for marketing or they tweaked them post launch for whatever reason i have no idea, but always wait for the plastic/resin/3d master to judge :D 

Its pretty obvious the AoD launch was delayed, uncoordinated and generally a weird mix of optimism and pessimism from SG, its certainly hurt the game pretty badly in places but im cautiously optimistic myself right now that once they reconfigure the releases to fit the sales and run out a proper FAQ and balance pass  things will level out tolerably ;) 

And i do think they need the latter, i can understand not wanting 6 monthly tweaks but at this point we have gaping holes in the rules and points problems twisting the game into odd shapes and its better to fix that than sit with your fingers in your ears and rely on us to do it! 

 

Lets not forget in this discussion, 'hurt the game' is a very personal or localised opinion. For GW its is a massive success. Im sure they as a company and all of the individuals involved would liked to have released stuff sooner or quicker, but for whatever reason that didnt happen, likely production slots.

 

We've seen multiple times they cant keep stock on the shelves (even before their recent hiccup) so trying to make stock of the next releases while still making stock of existing releases something has to give.  Tanks probably should have been that give, but even mad-men buying 6 predators (guilty) is likely less sales than they would have with an assault kit, so maybe someone decided (annoyingly) that it was better to wait until they had made a literal mountain of assault boxes so they stay in stock for more then 10 minutes, we will only find out when they eventually go on sale.

 

EDIT: Anyway, i agree Sisters seems quite likley. As its plastic does that mean a move for the resin arm kits too, what about their transport. That seems a stretch, tho i dont know how crucial transports are to a sisters list?

Edited May 5, 2023 by dickyelsdon

[Noserenda]

You are acting like both things cant be true? Yeah its done well (Though stock levels are pretty misleading these days due to production issues) but how much better could it have gone with a more appropriate release plan and rules? If anything its a sign of how interested people are in the setting that they put up with, or work around the problems anyway, its been a huge boon to 3d printers for example for exactly that reason.

Lets not forget its not all production issues though, not covering every army day one was a choice they made, not covering every army a year after release is a choice they made.

[Dezron]

My (kinda) wishlist of things I want for Solar Auxilia plastic release:

 

1. Plastic Stormhammer and Malcador (I don't personally like Malcador, but I like some of it's variants, which I hope would Come alongside plastic kit) 

2. Solar Auxilia Tank upgrade sprue (plastic). You know pintle weapons, Auxilia Gunner, Leman Russ Volkite Macro-Saker and maybe some Auxilia decorations. 

3. More unit options in Liber, there are way too few options, it makes Army building boring. Atleast move some Elite options back into Troops section.

 

That's more or less everything I would want from Auxilia release. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

10 hours ago, dickyelsdon said:

Lets not forget in this discussion, 'hurt the game' is a very personal or localised opinion. For GW its is a massive success

 Hurting the game and hurting sales/the company are two very different things.

 

We know the plastic heresy sold like crazy, no arguments there. But the health of the game is largely driven by accessibility of models; contemptors were reviled beyond belief up until the lascannon upgrade pack became available, and now those are the top dog. And vehicles don't match up well at all into those; fast, cheap, melee units might though. Or cheap snipers that out range the las. Or whatever else, you get what I mean.