Speculation on the Horus Heresy Road Map?

[Marshal Mittens]

There is a paper rock scissor bit to 2.0, for sure. LASCANNON HSS are very good at killing contemptors. Scorpions are good at killing HSS. Contemptor ls are good at killing everything but massed chaff.

 

I think most lists at 2k+ will probably have a Lascannon HSS, 1-2 contemptors, and 1-2 scorpions because that's kinda the meta. 

 

Maybe this new mystery army will change the meta? 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Marshal Mittens

[Noserenda]

Thats kinda sad though, for all that there were certainly OP units in 1st edition, it was never so consistent so at least you got a bit of variety in the meta but with a lot of army lists nerf punched and the marine internal balance at an all time low i worry things will feel a bit samey as things go on.

[Marshal Mittens]

At least in my local area most normal players are not seeming to "chase the meta" so much; its still fun. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Flipping back between 1st and 2nd, and meta units aside, it's definitely more fun when I can take units without them feeling like handicap. I can be indulgent with some "bad" units in 1st and still have a game, that's not the case in 2nd with the combination of poor balance and rock paper scissors. 

[OttoVonAwesome]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:44 AM, Marshal Mittens said:

There is a paper rock scissor bit to 2.0, for sure. LASCANNON HSS are very good at killing contemptors. Scorpions are good at killing HSS. Contemptor ls are good at killing everything but massed chaff.

 

I think most lists at 2k+ will probably have a Lascannon HSS, 1-2 contemptors, and 1-2 scorpions because that's kinda the meta. 

 

Maybe this new mystery army will change the meta? 

That's the no brainer list for sure but easy to counter. The meta is gonna keep evolving and I imagine a balance FAQ or even like a chapter approved type book will come eventually and shake stuff up. 

 

I'm 90% sure the mystery army is Skitarri and they'll def shake stuff up a bit.

[Bung]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:38 AM, Noserenda said:

Thats kinda sad though, for all that there were certainly OP units in 1st edition, it was never so consistent so at least you got a bit of variety in the meta but with a lot of army lists nerf punched and the marine internal balance at an all time low i worry things will feel a bit samey as things go on.

 

I think you wear rose tinted glasses 

In my experience 1.0 was rather stagnant and looking through the old Army list threads here and in other Forums, you always got the the same suggestions Like grav Rapiers, Medusas etc. and rendeted playing troop Infantry nearly useless.

You need to make an extended sesrch in 1.0 lists to find something different the 2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos as Troops choices and the Rest mostly filled with tanks regardless of the Legion.

[Petitioner's City]

48 minutes ago, Bung said:

 

I think you wear rose tinted glasses 

In my experience 1.0 was rather stagnant and looking through the old Army list threads here and in other Forums, you always got the the same suggestions Like grav Rapiers, Medusas etc. and rendeted playing troop Infantry nearly useless.

You need to make an extended sesrch in 1.0 lists to find something different the 2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos as Troops choices and the Rest mostly filled with tanks regardless of the Legion.

 

We also had eight years of 1.0 across 3.5 editions (5th, 6th, 7th and 7.5), so it's hard for me to even conceptualise "1.0" as a single entity given that it did change and transform over that period. I sometimes wonder what do people mean by "1.0" - it feels like a poor name for a near-decade of change, suggesting a static product that never evolved. I wish people were more specific :D 

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, Bung said:

 

I think you wear rose tinted glasses 

In my experience 1.0 was rather stagnant and looking through the old Army list threads here and in other Forums, you always got the the same suggestions Like grav Rapiers, Medusas etc. and rendeted playing troop Infantry nearly useless.

You need to make an extended sesrch in 1.0 lists to find something different the 2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos as Troops choices and the Rest mostly filled with tanks regardless of the Legion.

Nah that's very untrue.

Like "I never played it" kind of statement. 

Neither was it tank heavy nor was it infantry heavy. I had like three tanks in my armies around 2000 points and two being rhinos plus dreadclaws, termites and Dreadnoughts but I had everything as opposing armies from pure infantry to tank spam.

5 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

We also had eight years of 1.0 across 3.5 editions (5th, 6th, 7th and 7.5), so it's hard for me to even conceptualise "1.0" as a single entity given that it did change and transform over that period. I sometimes wonder what do people mean by "1.0" - it feels like a poor name for a near-decade of change, suggesting a static product that never evolved. I wish people were more specific :D 

It is short.

That's why people say 1ed. 

 

I wonder when we will see the new book and the new MK3. And what they will make after MK3. Mk4 would be beat but so would MK2. The former being more likely I think because it was a lot more common. But so was MK5... gnsrf. 

Why is it all so far away?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I don't understand why aren't plastic MK V squad boxes like other MKs.

[SkimaskMohawk]

6 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

We also had eight years of 1.0 across 3.5 editions (5th, 6th, 7th and 7.5), so it's hard for me to even conceptualise "1.0" as a single entity given that it did change and transform over that period. I sometimes wonder what do people mean by "1.0" - it feels like a poor name for a near-decade of change, suggesting a static product that never evolved. I wish people were more specific :D 

 

It was 10 years (2012-2022) from the start of 6th until the custom AoD book that launched in 2017, so about 2.5 editions of actual play. 

 

But yea, people talk about 1st as if it was this constant. 6th edition heresy was wildly different to 7th edition heresy. If it had came out in 5th like it was very clearly meant to), it would have been something else entirely (I'll put the changes in a spoiler):

 

Spoiler

• no premeasuring
• 6" flat charges
• fleet gave run and charge
• charges from infiltrate, scout, and outflank
• charges from any transport that hadn't moved
• wound allocation forcing wound spreading/abuse on some units
• no hull points on vehicles and more punishing penetration chart
• Vehicles were much harder to hit in combat 

 

Anyways, you're right, you definitely need to talk about the era of 1st, because stuff just interacted in different ways, or was overcosted, or was countered by Invisibility (remember that power?).

 

7 hours ago, Bung said:

 

I think you wear rose tinted glasses 

In my experience 1.0 was rather stagnant and looking through the old Army list threads here and in other Forums, you always got the the same suggestions Like grav Rapiers, Medusas etc. and rendeted playing troop Infantry nearly useless.

You need to make an extended sesrch in 1.0 lists to find something different the 2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos as Troops choices and the Rest mostly filled with tanks regardless of the Legion.

 

It completely depends on the Legion and player lol.

 

All of my lists had more than the minimum 2 troops, be it night lords, raven guard, iron warriors, Custodes or mechanicum. I think I used 4 rhinos across those three legions, two of which were Damocles, and those were the majority of the tanks that were in those lists (I had a spartan and sicaran for night lords, and a glaive for the iron warriors).

 

Now my one buddy, on the other hand, had a veritable parking lot of tanks. Three rhino tacs, medusa, Scorpius, laser Vindicator, maybe a dedicated spartan or Raider.

 

The point is that it depends. 

 

[Noserenda]

8 hours ago, Bung said:

 

I think you wear rose tinted glasses 

In my experience 1.0 was rather stagnant and looking through the old Army list threads here and in other Forums, you always got the the same suggestions Like grav Rapiers, Medusas etc. and rendeted playing troop Infantry nearly useless.

You need to make an extended sesrch in 1.0 lists to find something different the 2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos as Troops choices and the Rest mostly filled with tanks regardless of the Legion.

No i remember it quite well :D 2 (Some times 3!) Rhinos of tacticals was definitely common, but thats true now, and its essentially always been true, Troops choices arent very attractive and a lot of people take the minimum. 

Not everyone though, the last two armies i built were 3 x15 tacticals in my iron warriors (Often hiding in trenches and bunkers) and 3 x10 tacs in Drop pods in my Angels because thats what fit in my company layout :D Both armies did fairly well in Thrones of skulls which is about as much of a mixing pot as you can manage at the time, though admittedly the Iron warriors did have a lot of artillery because, well, Iron warriors :D 
 

7 hours ago, Petitioner's City said:

 

We also had eight years of 1.0 across 3.5 editions (5th, 6th, 7th and 7.5), so it's hard for me to even conceptualise "1.0" as a single entity given that it did change and transform over that period. I sometimes wonder what do people mean by "1.0" - it feels like a poor name for a near-decade of change, suggesting a static product that never evolved. I wish people were more specific :D 

Honestly, it might just be my A-Levels teacher who really hated people not updating version numbers on their work but i really think less of anyone who uses 1.0 or 2.0 in anything but the very, very broadest sense, and even then it makes me cringe :D I mean we were out of 2.0 within weeks, possibly days! 
 

2 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Nah that's very untrue.

Like "I never played it" kind of statement. 

Neither was it tank heavy nor was it infantry heavy. I had like three tanks in my armies around 2000 points and two being rhinos plus dreadclaws, termites and Dreadnoughts but I had everything as opposing armies from pure infantry to tank spam.

It is short.

That's why people say 1ed. 

 

Peoples meats can always vary and Bung did say "from their memory of forum posts" which is different to how people actually play the game in many cases as us online foolk are a minority, so many just pickup stuff they like after all :) 

But thats why i liked 1st ed marines, soooo many options and ways to play the list even with meta units alone there was a fair bit of variety, let alone what the random masses want to field :) 
 

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

It was 10 years (2012-2022) from the start of 6th until the custom AoD book that launched in 2017, so about 2.5 editions of actual play. 

 

 

All of your post, but this is important to note from the rapidly adapting lists of the post homebrew period, to the introduction of plastics and mass adoption, major FAQ changes, FW changes and edition shifts, 1st edition was like 3 different games in a big coat :D 

[Bung]

16 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Nah that's very untrue.

Like "I never played it" kind of statement. 

Neither was it tank heavy nor was it infantry heavy. I had like three tanks in my armies around 2000 points and two being rhinos plus dreadclaws, termites and Dreadnoughts but I had everything as opposing armies from pure infantry to tank spam.

It is short.

That's why people say 1ed. 

 

I wonder when we will see the new book and the new MK3. And what they will make after MK3. Mk4 would be beat but so would MK2. The former being more likely I think because it was a lot more common. But so was MK5... gnsrf. 

Why is it all so far away?

 

Depends where you are looking at.

How often did you play outside your own circle?

 

For the majority of the time i had to do pick up games cause noone in my area played.

 

Going through a few groups i saw a lot of Grav Rapiers, Medusas and other stuff which were common in more competetive lists before the last FaQ.

 

Depending on the Legion i didnt Encounter much difference in lists, like WE Always bringing that special apothecary.

 

For me the new Edition changed a lot of things i see on the table and more various lists.

Exception are people that are to much Influencer by YouTube vids.

 

 

[Taliesin]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:21 AM, Noserenda said:

Thats a super limited view of the Dark Mech's potential, if it was just Mechanicum + daemons we would have seen it years ago, but the fluff text around them, leaks and frequent delays point to something a lot bigger and more interesting, like i said above, Mechanicum at its peak with the brakes off, all kinds of daemonic, xeno and dark age tech doing all kinds of weird things, and the perfect ally to Iron hands gone mad to boot :D 
 

 

Particularly coming to mind is of course the fact that Dark Mechanicum was supposed to be in book 9 Crusade and then was cut last minute and the book sent to the printers without the DM section because of what they called space reasons.  Which at the very least shows that there was a lot of material that was done, and has been resting since, and the question is if it will be re-incorporated into a new book/release.

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, Bung said:

 

Depends where you are looking at.

How often did you play outside your own circle?

 

For the majority of the time i had to do pick up games cause noone in my area played.

 

Going through a few groups i saw a lot of Grav Rapiers, Medusas and other stuff which were common in more competetive lists before the last FaQ.

 

Depending on the Legion i didnt Encounter much difference in lists, like WE Always bringing that special apothecary.

 

Interesting.

We did around two events per year with players from germany and I went to events plus read reports after events and never saw a tendency towards full tank armies. More tanks for sure but not tanks only. I never saw Sorlak in the wild either.

Sounds like you played with the WAAC type of guy a lot.

 

And naturally we don't see any medusas anymore because GW killed it.

[OttoVonAwesome]

On 5/7/2023 at 6:26 AM, AGRAMAR said:

I don't understand why aren't plastic MK V squad boxes like other MKs.

You know how they split the mark 6 shoulder pad into to two pieces... That's why. You are looking at 4 pieces for the lower legs alone to do it right in plastic so with the current sprue layout something will have to be sacrificed or another small sprue added.

[Petitioner's City]

On 5/8/2023 at 10:33 AM, Taliesin said:

 

Particularly coming to mind is of course the fact that Dark Mechanicum was supposed to be in book 9 Crusade and then was cut last minute and the book sent to the printers without the DM section because of what they called space reasons.  Which at the very least shows that there was a lot of material that was done, and has been resting since, and the question is if it will be re-incorporated into a new book/release.

 

How do we know it was cut last minute? It was planned, of course, and there was a year-ish gap between being sent to the printers for initial proofs and release, but where does the last minute idea come from?

[Noserenda]

Pretty sure FW told us they were cutting the Dark Mech last minute at the time? In any case last minute is just over three months for really last minute.

[SkimaskMohawk]

41 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Pretty sure FW told us they were cutting the Dark Mech last minute at the time? In any case last minute is just over three months for really last minute.

 

That's definitely what they said, and the book was noticeably slim. It also had a whole bunch of lore of fallen/dark mechanicum that would have dove tailed right into the army list.

 

If they had more lead time to cut the list, presumably they could have came up with more replacement units to fill out the empty spots. It's not like they cared about porting everything over to 2nd, as hussars and the troop jetbikes both got cut.

[sarabando]

14 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

You know how they split the mark 6 shoulder pad into to two pieces... That's why. You are looking at 4 pieces for the lower legs alone to do it right in plastic so with the current sprue layout something will have to be sacrificed or another small sprue added.

not true it just means they would HAVE to use a slide mould which is more expensive. 

[Noserenda]

Or use a full size infantry sprue rather than the half sized ones Mk6 are on.

Or do the studs separately to the body parts and let you flex them around like old school heresy :D 

Lots of options! 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Noserenda

[lansalt]

I've already posted this in the SW sub forum, but apparently the brand new mkVI furry-like wolf helmets that caused so much derision have been removed from the store, they don't appear in a search and the link to the page returns a 404: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/space-wolves-mk6-heads-2022

So there's a chance that GW releases a redesigned kit with new SW helmets.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

18 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

You know how they split the mark 6 shoulder pad into to two pieces... That's why. You are looking at 4 pieces for the lower legs alone to do it right in plastic so with the current sprue layout something will have to be sacrificed or another small sprue added.

Do you think?0_o

Sweet baby Jesus...

[Etruscan]

4 hours ago, lansalt said:

I've already posted this in the SW sub forum, but apparently the brand new mkVI furry-like wolf helmets that caused so much derision have been removed from the store, they don't appear in a search and the link to the page returns a 404: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/space-wolves-mk6-heads-2022

So there's a chance that GW releases a redesigned kit with new SW helmets.

Now that is interesting. Interesting to see what happens next…

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, lansalt said:

I've already posted this in the SW sub forum, but apparently the brand new mkVI furry-like wolf helmets that caused so much derision have been removed from the store, they don't appear in a search and the link to the page returns a 404: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/space-wolves-mk6-heads-2022

So there's a chance that GW releases a redesigned kit with new SW helmets.

One can only hope.

No more ferret helmets 

[Lord Marshal]

Clearly they were just so popular they recognised they could never keep up with such overwhelming demand.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Lord Marshal