10th Faction Focus preview: IG

[Emperor Ming]

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I assume rule of 3 will still exist in 10th

Yep

 

Its already been previewed

[domsto]

If i understand it correctly you get +1 to hit rolls when you shot a heavy Weapon and remaind stationary?

So this negates the -1 to hit when shooting indirectly

Now lets just hope and pray that our Artillery will be "heavy" and it could become usefull again.

 

The whole cover thing i don't get

Artillery used to ignore cover by default and now it grants it?

But ok, as said by others before that it now "grants the benefit of Cover" and that the Armours Save with cover can't get any better as 3+, we won't see stupid stuff like Marines in Cover getting a 2+ against -3 AP like we had during 9.Ed

[Malakithe]

Heres to hoping the Manticore is back on the menu.

 

Also strange the LM battle cannon doesnt have heavy...

[OldWherewolf]

Couple interesting things

• Sisters preview mentioned that "you can only kill what you can see", so that boosts indirect, but really hurts Guard
• We don't know if Guard get the [Heavy] bonus (+1 to hit), as most of the weapons including the battlecannon & baneblade didn't show them.  It could be that Take Aim! is supposed to replace [Heavy] on our profiles.
• However, Take Aim! is +1 BS, meaning even if the opponent is -1 to hit, we're still hitting on 4s for indirect, and the opponent always gets cover, so no penalties (that we know of) for shooting a unit already in cover with indirect.  I think this means arty is back on the menu!
• Rumor is all tanks can natively fall back and shoot, which will help a LOT.
• Rumor is you can still shoot big models surrounded by small models (like a swarmlord surrounded by termagants)
• No consolidation unless you can get into base contact is good for us, as there won't be free movement for opponents if we position correctly. 
• Finally, AUTOCANNONS ARE BACK!!!
• Finally, GRENADE LAUNCHERS ARE BACK!!!

 

I'm kinda chapped on the battlecannon being AP1.  A full battlecannon on average kills ONE marine, while a demo cannon kills 2. Adding in Take Aim!, the BC goes to 2 and the DC goes to 3.  This will channel us to go DC, or something else.  It's been shown time and time again that a specialized unit/weapon will always be better than a middling weapon. 

 

Adding in the BoLS article on Herohammer, and I think we'll struggle with blobs of ablative wounds around tough characters.  I think this is countered a bit with our large squads, where we push a large blob forward, get stuck in, then fall back and blast.  But will we have enough firepower to deal with stuff that's in our face.

 

 

[Tokugawa]

18 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Heres to hoping the Manticore is back on the menu.

 

Also strange the LM battle cannon doesnt have heavy...

It's because order also provide +1hit. Most 40K players will agree on "guns operated by normal human soldiers can't hit on 2+".

 

10th Votann judgement mechanics give +1hit, and their default BS became 4+ from 3+.

[duz_]

3 hours ago, OldWherewolf said:

Finally, GRENADE LAUNCHERS ARE BACK!!!

 

IMHO they were never gone 

[Malakithe]

5 hours ago, OldWherewolf said:

I'm kinda chapped on the battlecannon being AP1.  A full battlecannon on average kills ONE marine, while a demo cannon kills 2. Adding in Take Aim!, the BC goes to 2 and the DC goes to 3.  This will channel us to go DC, or something else.  It's been shown time and time again that a specialized unit/weapon will always be better than a middling weapon. 

This just means everyone will ditch the LM in favor of the Dorn

 

4 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

It's because order also provide +1hit. Most 40K players will agree on "guns operated by normal human soldiers can't hit on 2+".

Sure but at the same time vehicle based weapons have technology to help with aiming and firing. But looking at Votann being 4+ now it looks like they are just bringing everyone down across the board

[mertbl]

I think the "only kill what you can see" is being a little over read into. Remember warcom is a hype team not a rules team.  I think you'll be able to keep wounding a unit beyond what's visible(like in 8/9th). I'll trade my lascannon team out in the open for your entire Gladiator reaper shooting phase all day if it saves the other 8 guardsmen.  

[Sergeant Bastone]

So orders now last until the start of our next command phase.  So I guess that means that Fix Bayonets affects 2 fight phases.  And FRF should now give extra shots to overwatch.  

 

I wonder if we will still be able to give our sergeants boltguns in Classic Infantry Squads.  In the Space Marines preview boltguns were A2 but for the Sisters they were A1 RF1.  Boltgun and Plasmagun both getting FRF seems like a good combo.  With a heavy bolter you'd be getting sustained hits too.

 

I just watched Mordian Glory's 10th edition game Guard vs Tyranids and the grenade launcher was the star (d6 S4 blasts vs hordes is nice).  Makes me wonder if the Missile Launcher might also be good for the first time ever?  Have they previewed a missile launcher's stats anywere?

[The Pounder]

Looks like that’s correct!

 

I have a couple of units with Grenade Launchers so I’m happy with that.

 

 I’m hoping that the Gatekeeper will still be a thing for Tank Commanders to offset the nerf to Battle Cannons.

 

Other than that I’m looking to add another Rogal Dorn to compliment my Demolisher.
 

Like I said previously, I’m interested to see what happens with the FW Artillery (in particular Medusa Carriages) fingers crossed they get the “heavy” rule.

 

Will see soon I suppose.

[Tokugawa]

3 hours ago, Jud Cottrell said:

Like I said previously, I’m interested to see what happens with the FW Artillery (in particular Medusa Carriages) fingers crossed they get the “heavy” rule.

 

Will see soon I suppose.

If a FW kits accidentialy received some buff which GW 40K units even don't have (usually due to careless keywords settings or some too old rules), then it would be nerfed to ground in next patches. 

 

 

[The Pounder]

Not too worried about getting advantages over GW models I just want my Artillery to be useful!

 

The Earthshaker Carriages getting the Regimental keyword that Basilisks didn’t get was a bit daft granted but I don’t think spamming artillery will win many games anyway! So hopefully there won’t be any reason to nerf them again.

 

I’d like to see what effect the Master of Ordinance will do in 10th also. Re roll 1’s again would be great!

 

I’m hoping with the new index there will be many ways to build the themed armies people want to, be it Mechanised, Horde, Siege Regiment or whatever! 
 

I’m probably over optimistic but it looks like building themed lists will be easier under the new system.

 

Guess we’ll all be able find out in the summer!
 

 

 

 

[Tokugawa]

On 5/15/2023 at 5:07 AM, Jud Cottrell said:

Not too worried about getting advantages over GW models I just want my Artillery to be useful!

 

The Earthshaker Carriages getting the Regimental keyword that Basilisks didn’t get was a bit daft granted but I don’t think spamming artillery will win many games anyway! So hopefully there won’t be any reason to nerf them again.

 

I’d like to see what effect the Master of Ordinance will do in 10th also. Re roll 1’s again would be great!

 

I’m hoping with the new index there will be many ways to build the themed armies people want to, be it Mechanised, Horde, Siege Regiment or whatever! 
 

I’m probably over optimistic but it looks like building themed lists will be easier under the new system.

 

Guess we’ll all be able find out in the summer!
 

 

 

 

In index most factions would only have one detachment rules set. Codex will bring more. 

[The Pounder]

You misunderstand what I mean.

 

We know the Guard specific detachment will be the “Combined Regiment” 

 

You’re right there will be more when the codex hits but that’s over a year away!

 

What I’m hoping is that there will be internal balance so multiple builds will be viable rather than being shoehorned into a single play style, variety being the spice of life!

[Tokugawa]

On 5/12/2023 at 4:05 PM, mertbl said:

I think the "only kill what you can see" is being a little over read into. Remember warcom is a hype team not a rules team.  I think you'll be able to keep wounding a unit beyond what's visible(like in 8/9th). I'll trade my lascannon team out in the open for your entire Gladiator reaper shooting phase all day if it saves the other 8 guardsmen.  

You are right, it is just over hyped. The core shooting phase rules leaked and there's nothing about "only visible model could be killed". 

[mertbl]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

You are right, it is just over hyped. The core shooting phase rules leaked and there's nothing about "only visible model could be killed". 

It actually specifically says something to the effect of "if the unit was visible at the start of the shooting attack, all hits are resolved even if the unit is no longer visible."

[Sergeant Bastone]

My gawd custodes.  This last week of imperial knights-chaos knights-custodes has been some serious Faction Focus Creep.  Remember back when we thought Guard looked awesome because we could take 20 man infantry squads and get cover behind a baneblade?

[Emperor Ming]

6 hours ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

Remember back when we thought Guard looked awesome because we could take 20 man infantry squads and get cover behind a baneblade?

 

You are going to have too see a baneblade first

 

There's some glaring issues that stand out for me, and the super heavies are not popular picks to start with

 

The removal of the turret rule means, unless there is officer interaction, your tank is bs4, one of the reasons tanks disappeared for a few editions was the bs4, so that's not a good start

 

Then the biggie, the removal of the rule that lets the superheavy move back from combat and still fire, so a canny opponent will plan too tag your tanks with crap so that they are -1 to hit. 

 

The 20 man unit with an officer is probably actually going to work in the enemy's favour, the three combined are large single target that you can more easily deal with, rather than 3 separate components, its not much effort to wipe 20 guardsmen. 

[Sergeant Bastone]

That's why we have the Go To Ground strategem!  And the vox gives us a chance to recover the CP.  Although it's a bit disappointing that it only gives the benefit of cover rather than improving cover by 1 like Go To Ground used to (go to ground-->get back in the fight order to still fight).  

 

We should also chuck grenades at people every time they come within 8"

 

And Overwatch.  You can fire overwatch in the opponent's movement phase or charge phase and any unit can fire (not just the unit being charged).  I'm going to keep a dedicated Overwatch squad with 2 plasma guns and 2 heavy bolters.  Give this squad FRF and it fires 4 plasma, 6 heavy bolter (all hits are Sustained Hits!), and 28 lasgun shots at 24" or 6/6/42 in rapid fire range (oh, and if the sergeants can take boltguns add 6 of those in there too).  Will fire every opportunity.  Gotta spam the strats on the vox squads.

[sairence]

47 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

 

You are going to have too see a baneblade first

 

There's some glaring issues that stand out for me, and the super heavies are not popular picks to start with

 

The removal of the turret rule means, unless there is officer interaction, your tank is bs4, one of the reasons tanks disappeared for a few editions was the bs4, so that's not a good start

 

Then the biggie, the removal of the rule that lets the superheavy move back from combat and still fire, so a canny opponent will plan too tag your tanks with crap so that they are -1 to hit. 

 

The 20 man unit with an officer is probably actually going to work in the enemy's favour, the three combined are large single target that you can more easily deal with, rather than 3 separate components, its not much effort to wipe 20 guardsmen. 

 

Yeah, those are certainly some worst case takes.

 

I'd be highly doubt losing turret is going to be a big change, as I can't imagine our main guns not getting the heavy KW, for +1 to hit when stationary. And the orders being unified for the Index means you can also order the tanks to get +1 to hit. So in practise it's very likely to come to the same as now. Maybe even better, because we can give a +1 to all guns, not just the turret. Kinda brings us back to 8th ed tank commander levels.

 

And whether 20 man units will actually be good or bad is very likely going to come down to how easy or hard it ends up being to remove chaff. If everyone ends up being vehicles and AT weapons hordes could be interesting.

 

The one thing I am curious about is what ways there will be to mitigate Battleshock, cause we've seen a lot of ways to trigger it now, but not much in terms of counters. I doubt they give us Commissars just ignoring it for an execution, it feels like too much of a centre piece rule for that 

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, sairence said:

 

Yeah, those are certainly some worst case takes.

 

I'd be highly doubt losing turret is going to be a big change, as I can't imagine our main guns not getting the heavy KW, for +1 to hit when stationary. And the orders being unified for the Index means you can also order the tanks to get +1 to hit. So in practise it's very likely to come to the same as now. Maybe even better, because we can give a +1 to all guns, not just the turret. Kinda brings us back to 8th ed tank commander levels.

 

And whether 20 man units will actually be good or bad is very likely going to come down to how easy or hard it ends up being to remove chaff. If everyone ends up being vehicles and AT weapons hordes could be interesting.

 

The one thing I am curious about is what ways there will be to mitigate Battleshock, cause we've seen a lot of ways to trigger it now, but not much in terms of counters. I doubt they give us Commissars just ignoring it for an execution, it feels like too much of a centre piece rule for that 

Many factions didn't care about morale in previous versions at all. In 10th they need to care about it, and possibly be punished by a failed battleshock test. 

 

It is somehow advantage of IG: IG players are already familiar with losing value in morale tests. 

[Trickstick]

9 hours ago, sairence said:

 

...I can't imagine our main guns not getting the heavy KW, for +1 to hit when stationary.

 

The faction focus has the battle cannon, without heavy. I'm kind of glad, as an incentive to stay stationary hurts how I like to play. I'm betting we still get the order though, although we have yet to find out how many orders we can throw out.

[sairence]

I found the preview kinda basic and inconclusive. The Volcano Cannon had heavy, the Baneblade cannon didn't. It's inconsistent and makes little sense to me. Combined with the fact that we know that some of the previewed datasheets were not complete makes me think that there's going to be a bit more to it.

[Trickstick]

There is always a chance, but I don't think so. The volcano cannon was pretty much the only thing to get heavy, not lascannons or heavvy bolters. That makes me think that heavy is going to be rare, and only for guns that they really want to keep still.

 

However, I can see them messing around with it a bit. Like if infantry lascannons are 5+ bs heavy. That would make them want to stay still, unlike 4+ not heavy when you could run around with them as much as you like. I can see russes being 4+, able to get 3+ with orders, and no heavy.

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, Trickstick said:

There is always a chance, but I don't think so. The volcano cannon was pretty much the only thing to get heavy, not lascannons or heavvy bolters. That makes me think that heavy is going to be rare, and only for guns that they really want to keep still.

 

However, I can see them messing around with it a bit. Like if infantry lascannons are 5+ bs heavy. That would make them want to stay still, unlike 4+ not heavy when you could run around with them as much as you like. I can see russes being 4+, able to get 3+ with orders, and no heavy.

Modifiers of hit can't exceed +1 total, so once a weapon has "heavy 5+" printed on its profile, it can never hit on a 3. It's much weaker than plain "4+".