10th Faction Focus preview: IG

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

9 hours ago, OldWherewolf said:

T6 with a 2+ Save would be brutal.

Probably won’t be 2+, maybe 3+.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I’m loving the buffs to the autocannon.

seems it will finally excel at its intended role, and moderately good in the anti-tank/vehicle role.

 

i wonder if the exterminator will have basic autocannons, or improved guns like it currently has.

S10 seems unlikely to me, so maybe S9 AP-2 d4?

Wounds standard marines on 2, getting through on 4 or under, and kills 2 marines per failed save. 
a single shot getting a wound on a vehicle would still be pretty good at 4 damage.

[Sergeant Bastone]

Shields now add wounds instead of improve saves so I'd imagine that bullgryns are 4+ from their bullgryn plate.

 

Let's be honest; GW has never given too much thought to 'how do we make ogryns viable'.  

[Emperor Ming]

Main issues I had with ogryns/bull that would need to be addressed, but ofc they wont be

 

1, Didn't synergise with the army because of lack of keywords/orders/etc

2, bullgryns mauls weren't worth extra points, and ap1 wasn't good enough

3, ogryns just had and prob will have just too many issues

 

[OldWherewolf]

I'd expect the Exterminator AC to be 4 shots, twin-linked.  Assuming it keeps the full hit re-rolls vs. units on objectives, that would be pretty good, and a decent trade-off for the BC.  6 shots at S10 vs. 4 shots at S9 re-rolling wounds.

 

5 hours ago, Sergeant Bastone said:

Shields now add wounds instead of improve saves so I'd imagine that bullgryns are 4+ from their bullgryn plate.

 

Let's be honest; GW has never given too much thought to 'how do we make ogryns viable'.  

 

I agree with you.  I'm looking at what GW did to Wraithguard, that lost their -1D, and went to a 2+ sv.  I'm assuming Bullgryn lose the -1D, the compensation for that would be either a higher T, and/or a a save bonus.  So staying T5/T6 with a 2+ seems about right to me.  Ming has the real question, which is what is happening to the bullgryn maul. 

 

I ran a full squad of 6 bullgryns a couple times, and they were durable as heck, but they couldn't splat much.  They just hung around long enough to eventually splat something.

 

On another note, I heard HK missiles are free.  So those Sentinels are looking better and better.  But it can also mean there's a lot more punch in Chimeras, LRBTs, and Hellhounds!

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

26 minutes ago, OldWherewolf said:

I'd expect the Exterminator AC to be 4 shots, twin-linked.  Assuming it keeps the full hit re-rolls vs. units on objectives, that would be pretty good, and a decent trade-off for the BC.  6 shots at S10 vs. 4 shots at S9 re-rolling wounds.

 

 

I agree with you.  I'm looking at what GW did to Wraithguard, that lost their -1D, and went to a 2+ sv.  I'm assuming Bullgryn lose the -1D, the compensation for that would be either a higher T, and/or a a save bonus.  So staying T5/T6 with a 2+ seems about right to me.  Ming has the real question, which is what is happening to the bullgryn maul. 

 

I ran a full squad of 6 bullgryns a couple times, and they were durable as heck, but they couldn't splat much.  They just hung around long enough to eventually splat something.

 

On another note, I heard HK missiles are free.  So those Sentinels are looking better and better.  But it can also mean there's a lot more punch in Chimeras, LRBTs, and Hellhounds!

I was really disappointed in the HK.

i know they want to keep vehicles viable, but the HK just seems really underwhelming.

[Sergeant Bastone]

Free army-wide Hunter Killer Missiles seems to lean into alpha strike which is the thing people hate most about playing guard.

[OldWherewolf]

29 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I was really disappointed in the HK.

i know they want to keep vehicles viable, but the HK just seems really underwhelming.

A free S14 shot potentially hitting on 3s is underwhelming?  On a LRBT it re-rolls 1s, or all misses if the target is on an objective?

 

A bigger problem is the 2VP each Sentinel gives up for Bring it Down.  Most of the secondaries require getting across the board, while all our benefits are about standing still.

 

I just realized, the REINFORCEMENTS! stratagem says "TARGET:  One REGIMENT unit from your army that was just destroyed", while the Vox-Caster says "each time you target the bearer's unit with a stratagem, roll 1 d6".  So do we get the CP refund if we target the infantry platoons?  Or is the bearer dead, so you can't roll?  I mean, the whole unit is dead already so you are targeting the bearer's unit...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

24 minutes ago, OldWherewolf said:

A free S14 shot potentially hitting on 3s is underwhelming?  On a LRBT it re-rolls 1s, or all misses if the target is on an objective?

 

A bigger problem is the 2VP each Sentinel gives up for Bring it Down.  Most of the secondaries require getting across the board, while all our benefits are about standing still.

 

I just realized, the REINFORCEMENTS! stratagem says "TARGET:  One REGIMENT unit from your army that was just destroyed", while the Vox-Caster says "each time you target the bearer's unit with a stratagem, roll 1 d6".  So do we get the CP refund if we target the infantry platoons?  Or is the bearer dead, so you can't roll?  I mean, the whole unit is dead already so you are targeting the bearer's unit...

I thought it was S10. Guess I’m miss remembering.

 

Stand still, shoot most of the enemy off the table, then move.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Trickstick]

32 minutes ago, OldWherewolf said:

A free S14 shot potentially hitting on 3s is underwhelming?  On a LRBT it re-rolls 1s, or all misses if the target is on an objective?

 

A bigger problem is the 2VP each Sentinel gives up for Bring it Down.  Most of the secondaries require getting across the board, while all our benefits are about standing still.

 

I just realized, the REINFORCEMENTS! stratagem says "TARGET:  One REGIMENT unit from your army that was just destroyed", while the Vox-Caster says "each time you target the bearer's unit with a stratagem, roll 1 d6".  So do we get the CP refund if we target the infantry platoons?  Or is the bearer dead, so you can't roll?  I mean, the whole unit is dead already so you are targeting the bearer's unit...

 

It is an interesting can of worms, for sure. "Destroyed" is a odd thing, as it is not really defined in the rules. Another weird example for you: does a unit lose battleshocked status when it is destroyed? If you think so, where is that in the rules? If it doesn't, does that mean that you can't use reinforcements on a unit that was battleshocked when it was destroyed?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 minutes ago, Trickstick said:

 

It is an interesting can of worms, for sure. "Destroyed" is a odd thing, as it is not really defined in the rules. Another weird example for you: does a unit lose battleshocked status when it is destroyed? If you think so, where is that in the rules? If it doesn't, does that mean that you can't use reinforcements on a unit that was battleshocked when it was destroyed?

a dead unit cant be battleshocked, if you think it can be, where is that in the rules?

[Trickstick]

10 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

a dead unit cant be battleshocked, if you think it can be, where is that in the rules?

 

The specific case I am thinking of is when an already battleshocked unit dies.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

16 minutes ago, Trickstick said:

 

The specific case I am thinking of is when an already battleshocked unit dies.

I get that…but you asked for someone to point to the rule that says a dead unit isn’t battleshocked, so I asked where in the rules it said a dead unit is battleshocked

[Trickstick]

12 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I get that…but you asked for someone to point to the rule that says a dead unit isn’t battleshocked, so I asked where in the rules it said a dead unit is battleshocked

Fair.

 

Page 11:

 

"...otherwise, the test is failed and, until the start of your next Command phase, that unit is Battle-shocked."

 

Page 12:

 

"DESTROYED
Throughout a battle, models will suffer damage and be
destroyed. When a model is destroyed, it is removed
from the battlefield. When every model in a unit has
been destroyed, that unit is destroyed."

 

Both battle-shocked and Destroyed are properties that a unit can aquire, which interact with other rules. The "Destroyed" property has no extra effect that states it wipes other properties, so the unit would retain battle-shocked until the player's next command phase.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Trickstick

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Trickstick said:

Fair.

 

Page 11:

 

"...otherwise, the test is failed and, until the start of your next Command phase, that unit is Battle-shocked."

 

Page 12:

 

"DESTROYED
Throughout a battle, models will suffer damage and be
destroyed. When a model is destroyed, it is removed
from the battlefield. When every model in a unit has
been destroyed, that unit is destroyed."

 

Both battle-shocked and Destroyed are properties that a unit can aquire, which interact with other rules. The "Destroyed" property has no extra effect that states it wipes other properties, so the unit would retain battle-shocked until the player's next command phase.

Ah well there ya go. Seems the question has been answered 

[mertbl]

On 6/3/2023 at 12:36 AM, Malakithe said:

I dont see how its the same. Infantry that remain stationary gain +1 to hit via Heavy. Vehicles that remain stationary dont get +1 to hit via anything at all. At least for AM vehicles. Also BS for AM vehicles are now 4+ as well

Infantry heavy weapons hit on 5s with a plus 1 to hit if stationary. Vehicle doesn't get a plus 1 but does hit on 4s. 

[Sergeant Bastone]

I like that they tried to make missile launchers relevant on sentinels but i just wish that they were BS3 instead of Heavy.  A scout sentinel really needs to be moving (its role is Fast Attack!).  I like that the missile launcher doesn't look stupidly way too big on the new sentinel (unlike every other gun) so I'm trying to justify this.

 

Versus one-wound models Blast, Heavy D6 S4 AP0 is not as good as the plasma cannon's Blast Heavy D3 S7 AP-2.  But maybe krak S9 AP-2 D6 is better than S8 AP-3 2 when you factor in the Heavy bonus?  Giving up a point of AP for a point of strength?  Ahh, but alas, it's one krak grenade vs D3 plasma blasts.

[sairence]

Plasma is potentially a good deal trickier with how Hazardous works. After all your attacks, you roll one dice for each weapon fired, and on a 1 it deals I believe 3MWs. So, less chances to go wrong, but no way to mitigate it with hit rerolls any more and potentially a lot more lethal when it blows up. A unit of Sentinels will worst case deal 9MW to itself, if all 3 cannons go boom.

 

Really not sure Plasma is all that appealing anymore, without hit rerolls offering some mitigation. The only counter now is FNPs.

[Commissar Yossarian]

Man I am loving the DkoK and Command Squad Shenanigans. 

With a full combined squad you can put in 3 Melta Guns, 3GL+1Flamer (or 2GL + HF), 4 Plasma Guns, 3 plasma pistols, 2 power swords and 1 PF with a 6+++ (1 vet to medic) and the squad naturally returns d3 meat shields a turn.

 

We'll have to see what the 2nd leader buff character should be to max it out (probably Commissar), but even on the face of it, damn the strats (vox) and take the self order each turn. With a +1 to hit early on and likely a round of combat at +1 to wound as well this blob will be a monster. With MMM on the first turn if you can get within 12" of the enemy the output should be terrifying. Also, you can slow roll for shenanigans by trying to kill off a Plasma Gunner to drop below full strength if the enemy hasn't cut them up yet. Then before they can shoot again you can pull them back with the medic as your 1 in the command phase.

 

 

[Trickstick]

9 hours ago, sairence said:

Plasma is potentially a good deal trickier with how Hazardous works. After all your attacks, you roll one dice for each weapon fired, and on a 1 it deals I believe 3MWs. So, less chances to go wrong, but no way to mitigate it with hit rerolls any more and potentially a lot more lethal when it blows up. A unit of Sentinels will worst case deal 9MW to itself, if all 3 cannons go boom.

 

Really not sure Plasma is all that appealing anymore, without hit rerolls offering some mitigation. The only counter now is FNPs.

 

Plasma gunners make great heatsinks for Primaris Psykers. If you have 3 hazardous weapons fire, you roll 3 dice. If you roll a single 1, you get to decide which of the models takes the damage. So if you have a Psyker using their hazardous profile, you can just assign the wound to one of the plasma gunners instead.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Trickstick

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, Trickstick said:

 

Plasma gunners make great heatsinks for Primaris Psykers. If you have 3 hazardous weapons fire, you roll 3 dice. If you roll a single 1, you get to decide which of the models takes the damage. So if you have a Psyker using their hazardous profile, you can just assign the wound to one of the plasma gunners instead.

And DKK has a "special weapon slot" which could only be plasma gun. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Tokugawa

[Trickstick]

4 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

And DKK has a "special weapon slot" which could only be plasma gun. 

Or vox, although I'm not really sure how valuable squad voxes are going to be. I depends on how many points they are I suppose, and even then the DKOK plasma is going to be really hard to give up.

 

Also, I'm interested on how Leontus's cp gain works. Rules limit cp gain to 1 when not at the start of the command phase. But Leontus's gain is said to be at the start of the command phase. Does this count or not? If it doesn't, then there is no point in having voxes with Leontus, other than 1 strat and insurance for his death. However, if it does count, then you can get more than 3 cp per battle round with the vox rebate.

[Tokugawa]

22 minutes ago, Trickstick said:

 

Also, I'm interested on how Leontus's cp gain works. Rules limit cp gain to 1 when not at the start of the command phase. But Leontus's gain is said to be at the start of the command phase. Does this count or not? If it doesn't, then there is no point in having voxes with Leontus, other than 1 strat and insurance for his death. However, if it does count, then you can get more than 3 cp per battle round with the vox rebate.

CP gains exactly at "beginning of command phase" is not limited by "max 1 per round" cap.

[Trickstick]

8 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

CP gains exactly at "beginning of command phase" is not limited by "max 1 per round" cap.

 

I think I agree, although an FAQ could prevent some arguments over it. Shame that, barring excessive expense, Leontus looks almost like an auto-include now. 3 orders, bypassing keyword restrictions, 50% extra cp, and redeploy. Very powerful. But I really don't like things so good that you are basically punished for not taking them.

[sairence]

8 hours ago, Trickstick said:

 

Plasma gunners make great heatsinks for Primaris Psykers. If you have 3 hazardous weapons fire, you roll 3 dice. If you roll a single 1, you get to decide which of the models takes the damage. So if you have a Psyker using their hazardous profile, you can just assign the wound to one of the plasma gunners instead.

 

It'll still be 3 MWs, and as they spill over that means 3 dead models in that example.