Wh40k 10th Edition Horus Heresy Units In 10th Edition

[Lord Marshal]

You'd definitely think that with many of these units being far more readily accessible, they'd be pushing the 40k inclusion harder than ever - Contemptor, Kratos, etc rules in the main codex and the like. 

 

GW truly is Tzeentchian in it's unpredictability. 

 

[mel_danes]

Unpopular opinion incoming!

 

How does making HH models legends in 40k impact their use in HH?

 

I get they pushed "Use these shiny new tows in 40k, if you want to."

They were never designed for 40k.

These are Heresy Era kits, for the HH game. GW cooked up some rules to run them, as a bolt on. They were never in a codex, why would we think they would be supported forever?

I'm not going to use AoS kits in 40K either, or Necromunda gangs. Where you can make simple proxies do so, IE Rhinos and Landraiders.

 

Keep using your shiny HH models in your games of HH.

 

/hot take

[crimsondave]

Hilariously, I bought a NOS Spartan for a great price off Ebay like 3 hours ago.  I’ll use it anyway but it’s still funny.

 

With the new Terminators coming out, I think they’ve lost their minds.  The Spartan would have flown off the shelf.

Edited June 1, 2023 by crimsondave

[SkimaskMohawk]

5 minutes ago, mel_danes said:

Unpopular opinion incoming!

 

How does making HH models legends in 40k impact their use in HH?

 

I get they pushed "Use these shiny new tows in 40k, if you want to."

They were never designed for 40k.

These are Heresy Era kits, for the HH game. GW cooked up some rules to run them, as a bolt on. They were never in a codex, why would we think they would be supported forever?

I'm not going to use AoS kits in 40K either, or Necromunda gangs. Where you can make simple proxies do so, IE Rhinos and Landraiders.

 

Keep using your shiny HH models in your games of HH.

 

/hot take

 

Because years ago, a lot of these units originated in resin for Badab War, and were well supported by the game through 6th and 7th editions. Which also happened to the be same game system that heresy used/uses.

 

Revamping the models in plastic doesn't change anything in terms of "what game system are they made for".

Edited June 1, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Toxichobbit]

4 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

You'd definitely think that with many of these units being far more readily accessible, they'd be pushing the 40k inclusion harder than ever - Contemptor, Kratos, etc rules in the main codex and the like. 

 

GW truly is Tzeentchian in it's unpredictability. 

 

 

It might be to do with Codex size. The Marine Codex has a lot of datasheets. They'll be adding more in with new Primaris stuff on top of what is in Leviathan & Agastus. So adding in all the plastic HH units as well - it's going to increase page count by a load more on an already bloated book, or reduce the lore section more than last edition.

[gaurdian31]

27 minutes ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

It might be to do with Codex size. The Marine Codex has a lot of datasheets. They'll be adding more in with new Primaris stuff on top of what is in Leviathan & Agastus. So adding in all the plastic HH units as well - it's going to increase page count by a load more on an already bloated book, or reduce the lore section more than last edition.

I agree, but they could release the rules in Imperial Armour like they have in the past.

 

32 minutes ago, mel_danes said:

Unpopular opinion incoming!

 

How does making HH models legends in 40k impact their use in HH?

 

I get they pushed "Use these shiny new tows in 40k, if you want to."

They were never designed for 40k.

These are Heresy Era kits, for the HH game. GW cooked up some rules to run them, as a bolt on. They were never in a codex, why would we think they would be supported forever?

I'm not going to use AoS kits in 40K either, or Necromunda gangs. Where you can make simple proxies do so, IE Rhinos and Landraiders.

 

Keep using your shiny HH models in your games of HH.

 

/hot take

Right, but I want to use models designed for 40k in 40k, like almost all the demon engines. 

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

GW really don't make sense to me sometimes.

I suspect this is a desire for Horus Heresy to stand on its own game and rules and unique model line, in the similar vein that Age of Sigmar and 40k are their own things. The preference is if people want to play games with these models, they play Horus Heresy. And to be fair, It HAS become it's own thing. The less niche it becomes the more weird and difficult the crossover becomes to manage. And i am not surprised something has to give on GW's side, "There is too much data to manage in 40k," is a legitimate problem with no easy solution. It does take time and resources away from supporting factions and models designed from the ground up for 40k.

 

Legends should be a fine compromise on paper, if not for the community's attitude writ large about it. as the legends list continues to be less edge cases and more of a big list, perhaps that will be a good motivation for playing groups re-evaluate their stances on it.  

Edited June 1, 2023 by Wispy

[Rain]

Just now, Wispy said:

I suspect this is a desire for Horus Heresy to stand on its own game and rules and unique model line, in the similar vein that Age of Sigmar and 40k are their own things. The preference is if people want to play games with these models, they play Horus Heresy. The less niche it becomes the more weird and difficult the crossover becomes to manage. I mean, it's fair problem, "There is too much data to manage," is a big problem with no easy solution. 

 

Legends should be a fine compromise on paper, if not for the community's attitude writ large about it. as the legends list continues to be less edge cases and more of a big list, perhaps that will be a good motivation for playing groups re-evaluate their stances on it.  

 

My best guess is that it's some MBA midwit's brilliant idea to boost sales by reducing the ability to use the same army in both game systems, and thereby incentivizing people to buy more armies. So now, the poster a few pages ago that was planning to make an Iron Warriors army to play in both 30k and 40k will instead...not pursue that project at all. Typical modern corporate strategy.

 

What's funny is that this is kind of possible with AOS and 40k with respect to Chaos Demons, and AOS is set in a different universe from 40k, unlike HH which is 40k: The Prequel.

[Mogger351]

It does feel like a calculated cutting nose off to spite the face. I Will no longer consider any plastic HH units for my fledging raven guard, it's also killed 40k world eaters dead for me as the GW line up didn't cut it for me. Instead of having a couple of units I could build off into 30k, I now will have none. I do not want a 30k only specific army I can't dual-purpose, so they flatly lost sales.

 

Some people will have some HH gubbins and now be a bit lost, they might now use them in HH for the sakes of not losing them altogether, resulting in starting another army.

 

What I will say is the HH range is nowhere near complete enough imo for the timing of this. If they'd had the melee units/despoilers etc in plastic, it would make sense.

[happyslugger]

Ah well, we will still use our models and either use the rules for 10th when they come out, or just continue to play them using their 9th edition rulesets.  Don't play tournaments so not bothered. We can alter the rules to suit our needs as a group.

 

I'm still going to buy one of the new landraiders for use in my custodes and would do even if they say I can't. I would use that model and state...it's a normal landraider. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by happyslugger

[Scribe]

The Plastic Lancer is a go.

 

Alert the Holy Ordo of the Adeptus Accountus...

[Captain Idaho]

=][= Please do not aggravate each other by dismissing their opinions with flippant comments, such as "Spend time with better people." It doesn't add to the discussion and comes off as trolling. I've removed corresponding posts =][=

[Evil Eye]

On the one hand, they're still useable in 40K as long as you're not playing in a tournament, which I have no intentions of doing anyway. Not a huge deal. On the other hand the trickle-down of tournament sensibilities into normal play is a long-documented issue and unless the tourney scene vanishes completely (which wouldn't be the worst thing anyway) there will be idiots who refuse to play against perfectly sensible lists because "You're using FW! That's unbalanced!" as they bring out their 3 Stormsurges.

 

This really seems totally pointless. We're long past the days of 5th where FW (or more accurately, SOME FW) was completely broken- even in a tournament setting it's completely redundant.

[phandaal]

GW's Facebook team also said that Relic Terminators are going the way of the dodo, in response to a question on their post. Did not see that one mentioned in the article.

[Toxichobbit]

1 minute ago, phandaal said:

GW's Facebook team also said that Relic Terminators are going the way of the dodo, in response to a question on their post. Did not see that one mentioned in the article.

 

Oh goody. More invalidating people's models.

[redmapa]

4 minutes ago, phandaal said:

GW's Facebook team also said that Relic Terminators are going the way of the dodo, in response to a question on their post. Did not see that one mentioned in the article.

 

Oh for :cuss:s sake I hope this isn't true, that would remove so many Terminators from my lists.

 

God damn GW and their stupid solutions, no one asked for this.

[Magos Takatus]

I'm happy as a Cerastus Knight fan club member that it will be integrated into the Knight faction rules but I don't understand why Titans get a pass but the Secutarii Hoplites and Peltasts had to be sent to the shadow realm. It doesn't make a huge difference because they had rules that forbade them from having synergy with other Adeptus Mechanicus units but I found making a squad of Hoplites was a way to avoid burnout from slowly painting the super-detailed Skitarii models. 

 

My Space Marine army currently contains a resin Contemptor, two relic Predators and a Land Raider Achilles from before it became a Horus Heresy model. I've also bought a plastic Leviathan. I wasn't expecting to use all these relic units in one army but it does feel sad that being kept in stasis in the chapter armoury is a metaphor for being stuck in a box on a shelf instead of on the games table. 

 

I really loved Forge World models and it already made me a bit sad that I had an Aeldari Phoenix Bomber kit in my pile of shame that was destined to be in Legends rules in 9th, and may never get rules for 10th. It sure will look cool when I get round to building it, though. :p

 

Retreading the part about Cerastus Knights, Having them in the FW Index in 9th was pretty dismal. I wanted my Castigator to be the Princeps of my Knight Household and I simply could not do that in 9th edition. I had to pay a command point to make him a character in order to give him a Warlord Trait and he could not be my Warlord. He's the centrepiece to my Knight army and has to play second fiddle to a generic guy in a Questoris Knight. The codex also heavily incentivises Armigers with the odd Questoris backup so the leader of my Household barely interacts with my army. This wasn't Legends, this was just GW doing the absolute bare minimum to keep their Index rules relevant. Legends rules are one step below that.

 

Edit: just read the posts around mine. Damn, I had Tartaros Terminators too because they looked more like Mk4 armour, which looks closest to MkX So I could have a slightly more unusual but consistent army. It's like GW are going after my Marine army specifically. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Magos Takatus

[Captain Idaho]

Oh for goodness sake. Do we have a reference for that?

 

(Removal of Relic Terminators)

Edited June 1, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[phandaal]

Just now, Captain Idaho said:

Oh for goodness sake. Do we have a reference for that?

 

Not far down in the comments on their Facebook page. Someone asked about Relic Terminators specifically. GW said their rules would be in Legends.

[BrainFireBob]

After releasing the plastic Spartan and the Contemptor hybrid kits- people are going to feel fleeced. Bad move reminscent of someone blaming FW dreads for, say, lower than expected Redemptor sales. 

 

Although I've wondered if they are trying to "encourage" vets to Heresy

Edited June 1, 2023 by BrainFireBob

[Toxichobbit]

Just now, phandaal said:

 

Not far down in the comments on their Facebook page. Someone asked about Relic Terminators specifically. GW said their rules would be in Legends.

 

Oh, in Legends? In that case it's not quite as bad as I thought. I assumed "gone the way of the dodo" meant they'd just removed them from 40k entirely. Still sucks, but given the other HH units were all going there that's what I was expecting for Relic Terminators.

[phandaal]

1 minute ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

Oh, in Legends? In that case it's not quite as bad as I thought. I assumed "gone the way of the dodo" meant they'd just removed them from 40k entirely. Still sucks, but given the other HH units were all going there that's what I was expecting for Relic Terminators.

 

Guess it depends on your idea of what happens when they go into Legends. 

 

But yeah, not "deleted from existence." Going to Legends, which I did not see mentioned in the article this morning.

[DemonGSides]

19 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

On the one hand, they're still useable in 40K as long as you're not playing in a tournament, which I have no intentions of doing anyway. Not a huge deal. On the other hand the trickle-down of tournament sensibilities into normal play is a long-documented issue and unless the tourney scene vanishes completely (which wouldn't be the worst thing anyway) there will be idiots who refuse to play against perfectly sensible lists because "You're using FW! That's unbalanced!" as they bring out their 3 Stormsurges.

 

This really seems totally pointless. We're long past the days of 5th where FW (or more accurately, SOME FW) was completely broken- even in a tournament setting it's completely redundant.

 

The "Tournament rules at all costs" brain rot is present in everything now a days.  It's like people forget you're playing with plastic toys.

Edited June 1, 2023 by DemonGSides

[Captain Idaho]

5 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Not far down in the comments on their Facebook page. Someone asked about Relic Terminators specifically. GW said their rules would be in Legends.

 

In what post? The HH one?

[Toxichobbit]

5 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

The "Tournament rules at all costs" brain rot is present in everything now a days.  It's like people forget you're playing with plastic toys.

 

During 8th & all previous editions I was very live & let live as far as competitive players are concerned. But over the course of 9th, with all the rules churn and constant adjustments to the edition I began to resent the tournament scene more and more. I still try to be understanding of competitive view points and remember that the issue is GW giving them so much influence, but it's hard when I feel that tournaments have become a blight on the rest of the community because they have such a disproportionate effect on the rules & player attitudes.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Toxichobbit