Index: Blood Angels

[Arkhanist]

10 hours ago, Morticon said:

Stand to be corrected on this, but think i remember reading that the "extra attack" weapons can never be modified, but that aside, It would be one extra attack only, so we'd choose the appropriate weapon for that +1

 

Some "extra attacks" weapons have multiple additional attacks, e.g. the gravis captain relic chainsword has 3A, they're not capped at 1.

But you are correct that they can't be modified, I missed that. "The number of attacks made with an Extra Attacks weapon cannot be modified by other rules."

per the core rules. So he doesn't benefit from Red Thirst twice after all.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Been busy with a lot real world stuff and haven’t had the opportunity to read the new core rules.

 

are buffs/debuffs still limited to +/-1 or can they be stacked at all?

 

it seems like there are a lot of ways to increase AP on weapons.

[Paladin777]

Darn. Good to know though.

[BluejayJunior]

12 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Been busy with a lot real world stuff and haven’t had the opportunity to read the new core rules.

 

are buffs/debuffs still limited to +/-1 or can they be stacked at all?

 

it seems like there are a lot of ways to increase AP on weapons.

Pretty sure that the hit roll is maxed at +/-1. Everything else doesn't have a cap on it that I have seen. 

[Blindhamster]

I do think GW have failed pretty badly on characters and units, not allowing mephiston in bladeguard (or captains without shields for that matter) is very dumb, priests and sanguinary guard is equally dumb.

 

it’ll be interesting to see how things shake up but after reading things a few times I’m convinced that sons of sanguinius detachment is generally a trap, the gladius detachment just helps us do what we need to do better. 

[Paladin777]

From what I can tell, the Gladius helps us get to combat, but doesn't really help much once we're there. 
 

Sons of Sanguinius might not help us get to combat, but gives us a lot of tools to make us much more effective once we get there. 

 

so I honestly think that both are quite viable. 
 

I totally agree on the characters though! Maybe they thought mephy+bgv would be too powerful or something. 

[Blindhamster]

Mephistons strike first ability feels utterly wasted on intercessors, sternguard and even assault intercessors lol, and that’s the extent of his squad buffing ability really.

 

I think gladius is overall better because it still has a start that grants lance, but it also grants a better AP, it has a strat to let you fall back and charge still (but also let’s you fall back and shoot) it has better melee enhancement and the doctrines are overall far more useful army wide.

 

But yeah I am interested in what other people think for sure

Edited June 13, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Pathstrider]

On SoS vs Gladius - do we need the extra buffs SoS gives? There seem to me to be loads of characters that give out equivalents or better - so the units you really want to get into close combat will be fine without it. 
 

So the benefit is either 1) we don’t need to buy those characters (though I think we would anyway) or 2) use SoS to benefit none close combat units, which is situational to say the least.

 

On Mephiston - agree I’m not sold on his buffs given the units he can join, particularly as he’s competing with a regular Libby giving 4++. Also it irritates me that his T5 won’t get used most of the time.

[Jolemai]

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-review-the-blood-angels-index/

 

Goonhammer review for those interested.

[Paladin777]

Can anyone hazard a guess why the Chaplain with Jump Pack is Ld 6+ when every other unnamed chaplain is 5+?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I do think GW have failed pretty badly on characters and units, not allowing mephiston in bladeguard (or captains without shields for that matter) is very dumb, priests and sanguinary guard is equally dumb.

 

it’ll be interesting to see how things shake up but after reading things a few times I’m convinced that sons of sanguinius detachment is generally a trap, the gladius detachment just helps us do what we need to do better. 

This is just an index.

a lot of these issues will likely be fixed in the codex.

[Pathstrider]

He’s afraid of heights….

Edited June 13, 2023 by Pathstrider
Got the joke the wrong way around

[Karhedron]

11 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

Can anyone hazard a guess why the Chaplain with Jump Pack is Ld 6+ when every other unnamed chaplain is 5+?

 

Probably a typo. Drop GW an email at 40KFAQ@gwplc.com and point it out. Also highlight things like Mephiston being able to join BGVs and Priests joining SG. Be polite but constructive customer feedback is the best way to get things changed and digital rules means there is a chance of it happening.

 

I don't think Mephiston's "Fight First" ability is too strong for BGVs since the Judiciar gives them the same ability.

[Blindhamster]

32 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

This is just an index.

a lot of these issues will likely be fixed in the codex.

perhaps, but we are likely somewhere from a year to two years off a codex for blood angels, so what we have in the index is likely to be what we have for half the edition at least.

 

if I were a betting man, Blood Angels will get their update Christmas 2024

Edited June 13, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Orblivion]

21 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

This is just an index.

a lot of these issues will likely be fixed in the codex.

The codex is at least a year away, it is a nonfactor.  These are our rules right now, and if I'm being kind I would describe them as not great.

 

Dante with SG looks really good but I'm disappointed once again that Dante, as leader of half the Imperium, does not get some kind of CP gain ability.  I'm disappointed that Sanguinary Priests apparently aren't Apothecaries anymore.  Most of all, I'm disappointed that not one Stratagem or Enhancement properly depicts the Blood Angels superiority in flight or their penchant for speed.

[MaximusTL]

i think alot of value in our army will be dependent on weather assault squads and vanguard vets will be 'replaced' with new unites (like tactical marines and intercessors) or just be upsized (like sternguard). if its the later, and their datasheets are updated, i think that would be extremely valuable for our army.

 

If jump pack priests are FAQ'd to join sanguinary guard, i can see a unit of 10, Dante, and a Priest being a staple in most if not all BA lists. durable, hard hitting, plenty of OC, and mobility would make them into a serious threat as well as a distraction carnifex.

 

my overall feeling though is that BA are going to feel play much more akin to normal marines, at least in this edition. Yeah our melee hits harder than other marines, but our shooting isn't going to be (significantly) worse. for the most part i think we're going to have to rely on shooting for dealing with vehicles, as s9 Ap-2 D2 isn't going to cut it when dealing with tanks.

I also feel we're going to end up one of the weaker marine armies. we have good melee damage, but we lack mobility bonuses, and the loss of Red Thirst when we are charged is a kick in the teeth. 

 

I think that, if they wanted detachments to be available to everyone, they should have made it that taking a unique chapter gave a rule that replaced Oath of Moment. maybe im asking for alot, but if SoS was gone and replaced with a generic melee deatchment but blood angels had '+1 S and A if they entered combat this turn, and when making a charge, can roll 3d6 and drop the lowest' i would feel alot better about their current state. Red thirst makes much more sense as a pervading rule rather than a detachment one; it feels like i lose all the flavor of being a Blood Angel if i take the gladius or any other marine list. you can't just turn off the Flaw by utilizing a different combat deployment.

[Jolemai]

 

Auspex Tactics review for those interested.

[Paladin777]

He seemed pretty positive about most of it. So was The Blood Angels Commander. 

[Blindhamster]

Overall, it doesn’t seem like we did badly as such, but definitely agree with some of my fellow frater above.

 

the jump pack marine update that is coming later this year in theory will be an interesting one I think.

 

im pretty sure the bad vanguard rules in the index will go and a new vanguard squad will appear, kinda interested to see what that will look like. Jump captains may get an interesting update too.

 

im 100% in the camp that hope this is a stopgap and we lose oath of moment eventually in favour or a different faction rule. But I also think that’s probably unlikely.

 

we may see detachments that allow overcharged engines on rhinos and one for jump infantry though 

[Paladin777]

I'm also in the camp of this being a Stop-gap, though a more lengthy one.
 

I would also guess that the VV replacement (if one happens) will look like the sternguard. Two main weapon options, one with a generalist profile and the other a more niche profile, and the squad would have the option for a single 'heavy weapon.'

Edited June 14, 2023 by Paladin777

[Morticon]

12 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

 

Of course that can't be intended, lemme read that rule again.

 

"add 1 to the Strength and Attacks characteristics of melee weapons equipped by models in that unit."

 

 

Ok, yup, +1 to both weapons it is!

Well, damn. 

 

But dont you only choose one melee weapon to fight with? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 6/13/2023 at 11:27 PM, Orblivion said:

The codex is at least a year away, it is a nonfactor.  These are our rules right now, and if I'm being kind I would describe them as not great.

 

Dante with SG looks really good but I'm disappointed once again that Dante, as leader of half the Imperium, does not get some kind of CP gain ability.  I'm disappointed that Sanguinary Priests apparently aren't Apothecaries anymore.  Most of all, I'm disappointed that not one Stratagem or Enhancement properly depicts the Blood Angels superiority in flight or their penchant for speed.

You’re in the minority then I’ve seen very few complaints about the overall index.

 

On 6/13/2023 at 11:31 PM, MaximusTL said:

i think alot of value in our army will be dependent on weather assault squads and vanguard vets will be 'replaced' with new unites (like tactical marines and intercessors) or just be upsized (like sternguard). if its the later, and their datasheets are updated, i think that would be extremely valuable for our army.

 

If jump pack priests are FAQ'd to join sanguinary guard, i can see a unit of 10, Dante, and a Priest being a staple in most if not all BA lists. durable, hard hitting, plenty of OC, and mobility would make them into a serious threat as well as a distraction carnifex.

 

my overall feeling though is that BA are going to feel play much more akin to normal marines, at least in this edition. Yeah our melee hits harder than other marines, but our shooting isn't going to be (significantly) worse. for the most part i think we're going to have to rely on shooting for dealing with vehicles, as s9 Ap-2 D2 isn't going to cut it when dealing with tanks.

I also feel we're going to end up one of the weaker marine armies. we have good melee damage, but we lack mobility bonuses, and the loss of Red Thirst when we are charged is a kick in the teeth. 

 

I think that, if they wanted detachments to be available to everyone, they should have made it that taking a unique chapter gave a rule that replaced Oath of Moment. maybe im asking for alot, but if SoS was gone and replaced with a generic melee deatchment but blood angels had '+1 S and A if they entered combat this turn, and when making a charge, can roll 3d6 and drop the lowest' i would feel alot better about their current state. Red thirst makes much more sense as a pervading rule rather than a detachment one; it feels like i lose all the flavor of being a Blood Angel if i take the gladius or any other marine list. you can't just turn off the Flaw by utilizing a different combat deployment.

We didn’t lose red thirst…it got a little bit nerfed, but we still have it.

[DemonGSides]

Anything with [extra attacks] can be swung in addition to a non [extra attacks] weapon.

[Morticon]

6 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I do think GW have failed pretty badly on characters and units, not allowing mephiston in bladeguard (or captains without shields for that matter) is very dumb, priests and sanguinary guard is equally dumb.

 

it’ll be interesting to see how things shake up but after reading things a few times I’m convinced that sons of sanguinius detachment is generally a trap, the gladius detachment just helps us do what we need to do better. 

 

 

I'm feeling the same thing, but our ability to hit as hard as we do with SoS detach whilst being able ot use Rapid Ingress twice, *may* be the saving grace.  

Otherwise, i'm totally with you. 

[Jolemai]

6 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

He seemed pretty positive about most of it. So was The Blood Angels Commander. 

 

Haven't seen yet, but won't be linking it if he doesn't control his language!