Space Wolves Index

[Wispy]

just thinking aloud, but our battle leaders and wolf guard pack leaders are the best features of the codex and feels like they sneakily make our units more potent across the board compared to their contemporaries. 

 

the don't interact with primaris units at all, though. Ragnar is the only Space Wolves unit that can interact with them. Makes me even more impatient for a Black Templar-style refresh on our army that folds those Primaris concepts into the Chapter specific ones. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Wispy

[Valerian]

1 hour ago, TiguriusX said:

Njal + terminator brick may be a combo that works

 

Cant be shot outside 12"

*nvm i mixed up keywords

stealth just grants cover i was told

 

dig in on an objective and stay alive

Stealth is -1 to Hit on ranged attacks. 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Wulfen are a good example of a couple of problems I’m having with tenth. Wulfen/vanguard/TWC being treated differently than other close combat units. Sang Guard, death company, death wing still have diversity in their choices. Even chaos units who have accursed weapons can still take power fists. I’m happy for the other chapters they didn’t get the vanguard treatment. I just don’t understand how the design team opted to treat vanguard/Wulfen differently than sang guard, death company, death wing.

 

I don’t really see combat being an effective way to destroy heavy vehicles. Chain fists are just okay and they look like they’re supposed to be the best way for a unit to melee a vehicle.

 

Not just to be negative, I do think Black Death on a Thunder hammer will be cool. Shame I can’t take it in a gladius. 
 

EDIT: when the marine codex comes out we will see how they treat vanguard. If they change it for the better that’s what we should expect for our bespoke units. It’s just an index after all. Indexes have usually been bland.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Wolf Guard Dan

[Guest Triszin]

I was really hoping that we would have atleast 1 character that could attach to wulfen, even if it was the reiver lt. :(

[Bulwyf]

SW are basically unplayable now. Worst detachment in the game. Strats tied to impossible to achieve sagas. Wulfen and TWC are literally unplayable with nerf bat weapons. Bjorn and Murderfang will be dead by turn 2. 

 

I'm absolutely gutted with how truly crappy the SW rules are. I mean there's no reason to play this. None. 

[Karhedron]

OK, a lot of people are understandably disappointed. A lot of our signature units have been nerfed into irrelevance. If they see play in future, it will only be if they are dirt-cheap. However, now I have vented I want to look beyond the headline and see what we have got that is good.

• WG Pack Leaders: I think these are the sleeper hits and the key to activating some of our Sagas as they have the Character keyword. Having these scattered through several units will give us at least a fighting chance of completing some of our Sagas.
• Grey Hunters: Can still be taken in squads of 5-10 (unlike Tactical squads) so can still fit in a Razorback. You can also take 2 special weapons per squad, regardless of size. I think a 5-man squad with 2 Grav guns in a RB (WGPL optional) will be quite a nice little package. And they can shoot while Advancing or Falling Back which is handy.
• Arjac Rockfist is a brick and can reliably dig enemy Characters out of opposing squads. Has one of the few infantry 3D melee weapons still around.
• Ragnar is a blender and can lead a nice selection of squads
• TDA WGBL: Yes, we still have the only Lt-level Character in Terminator armour meaning we can have 2 Characters leading our Terminator squads.
• Mixed TDA are still a thing.
• Wulfen Dread with the Tank Shock stratagem will be a great Mortal Wounds generator on the charge.

OK it is not the greatest but it is a decent selection to get started with and we have access to most of the toys from the standard codex, even if running our custom detachment. Any more ideas?

[Guest Triszin]

Oh, one final complaint on wolf guard terminators.

If you take a heavy weapon.
Assault/flamer you get no other ranged/melee weapon.
You only have the heavy

If you take cyclone you at least get a storm bolter

 

That's right.

A single assault cannon/heavy flamer and nothing else

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Triszin

[tetsuhau]

8 minutes ago, Triszin said:

Oh, one final complaint on wolf guard terminators.

If you take a heavy weapon.
Assault/flamer you get no other ranged/melee weapon.
You only have the heavy

If you take cyclone you at least get a storm bolter

 

That's right.

A single assault cannon/heavy flamer and nothing else

 

Noticed this and thought it might be an oversight. Like every model should have a "close combat weapon" no? 

[Guest Triszin]

Wulfen feel like they forgot to finish making a 10th data sheet.

 

Like they did the first profile and stats.

 

Then forgot to finish the hammer placeholder and forgot the special rules

[Bulwyf]

Why would you take the horrible SW detachment over the Gladius detachment? You can take the Gladius detachment and still have all our characters plus units we can't take like the apothecary/wolf priest. The fears of SW being basically Smurfs with a different color scheme have now been realized. The GW devs even made sure to nerf the living hell out of the unique SW units in TWC and Wulfen to make sure you don't bring them to the table.

[Valerian]

44 minutes ago, Triszin said:

I was really hoping that we would have atleast 1 character that could attach to wulfen, even if it was the reiver lt. :(

Yeah, I was expecting Wolf Priest, like the olden days. 

[tetsuhau]

I see where a lot of it comes from. Like anything that has marine adjacent units to compare to I can look at them and go "fair enough" even the wolf guard. Sure. 

 

Anything that was space wolf only is what got the real nerf. Gives me hope that maybe someone else that feels like toying with the ins and outs of each faction will put the design flow back in. These indexes look like broad stroke generalisations to get people playing again.

 

If the data cards are really to be free online these could be changed hourly. I'm not going to get salty yet. Wolves have been a bottom tier army before, I still play them because I think they're fun not because I have the need to win.

[Wispy]

I know i have mixed it up with you in the past, Bulwyf, but the fact that you're still here edition after edition with the same fiery, apocalyptic rhetoric every time has become refreshing to me.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Wispy

[L30n1d4s]

I posted this in the RUMORS thread and stand by it:

 

‐----

Negatives:

-Space Wolf Scouts only have 1W (got to be an error, hopefully fixed in a FAQ)

-Basic Wolf Guard got the VV treatment, with crappy S5 AP-1 Heirloom Weapons (and no options to improve their CC ability)

-No access to JP Wolf Guard anymore

-Typo on WG Terminators (I assume typo, hopefully), where Heavy Weapons replace both PF and SB (leaving them with no CCW of any type)

-Wulfen may have gotten shafted even more than Vanguard Vets... all their special weapons (including THs and Frost Claws) got reduced to S5 AP-1 options, and they don't even get anything like Scout moves, Advance and Charge, etc., nor do they get anyway to buff the units around them like they used to... wow, they took it on the chin!

-Like Wulfen and VVs, TWC got "Heirloom Weaponed" into a mediocre melee weapon profile, with no options to get improved wargear (even on a Sgt)... they do get +1 Dmg on the charge, but that still does not make up for the massive nerf to their melee potential overall.

-Sagas are good and can be "stacked," but unlike all other Astartes factions, haved to be "earned," so kind of a case of poorer when you are losing already, and richer when you are winning already I think. While not bad per se, they seem to be a power step below most of the other Astartes detachment rules.

 

Positives:

-Good collection of Strats across the board

-Enhancements are excellent, with Frost Weapons (+1S/-AP and Precision on model's melee weapons) and Black Death (Anti-Monster 4+/ Anti-Vehicle 4+ on model's melee weapons... really powerful on Thunder Hammers!) as standouts

-Both versions of Logan Grimnar are solid, especially his "Waaaghhh-like" once a game re-rolls to charge and hit in melee across the whole army

-Njal giving a Terminator unit he is attached to Stealth (very solid)

-Bjorn being very tough, and also a strong ranged character, so a good chance to completing several of the Sagas with shooting early on in the game (vice waiting until Turn 2+ when most characters can finally get stuck in)

-Arjac has awesome damage against both characters and Monsters and, also, buffing his unit's durability against high strength attacks

-Ulrik is AMAZING!!!... aura of Ld5+ (not even Primarchs give this) and his rerolls from Slayer's Oath will just wreck units (especially Characters/Monsters/ Vehicles)... other factions WISH they had a force multiplier character like this!

-Ragnar is a beat stick (as he should be), can join both Primaris and Firstborn units, and gives his squad Advance and Charge all the time

-Wolf Lord on Thunder Wolf is strong, gives free Strat to attached TWC, and also gives improved mobility

-Blood Claws are very strong, getting +1A/S on the charge (so their chainswords are 4A at S5 AP-1) and they can still have 15 models plus a WGPL attached

-Grey Hunters still very versatile, with option to have 2 SWs, PF on the Sgt, Chainsword/Bolter on everyone else, and free Advance/Fall Back and Shoot (they can also fit in a Razorback with 2 SWs and pop out to shoot with full re-rolls to Wound from the Razoback special rule

-WG Terminators still have access to wide variety of weapons, including Combo-Weapons across the whole squad (with Oath of Moment and Wolf Guard special rules, they are hitting on re-rollable 3+s, then causing MWs to infantry on re-rollable 4+s, all after they Deep Struck in for free)

-Hounds of Morkai are actually quite respectable, and downright dangerous versus Psykers (GKs and Thousand Sons better look out!)

-Murderfang is ridiculous... basically, as long as he is alive, he gets to fight again every time a unit attacks him... charge into three different units, he gets to attacks first, then he can potentially fight 3 more times!! that same phase, as long as he survives each of the other unit's attacks back

-Skyclaws can still have 15 models and get +1 to hit and re-roll their Charges for free, plus can still take a WGPL

-Long Fangs keep their unique ability to have 5 HWs (including Heavy Flamers and Grav Cannons, which they have not always had access to), plus they get built in re-rolls of 1 to Hit "built-in... again, I'd say they are an excellent unit to ride in a Razorback and benefit from its re-roll to Wound special rule

-Stormfang finally has decent Firepower from its Hellfrost Destructor, including the ability to use it as Torrent weapon and the option to "freeze" a target Monster/Vehicle (reducing the target's move/advance/charge by -2".... Knights will hate this)

-GW did a great job handling WG Pack Leaders... at first, reading through, I thought they had dropped them entirely and was ready (along with every other SW player, probably) to curse their name for losing so much lore/flavor/unique rules, but looks like they found an elegant way to include them as characters that can only attach to certain units. On top of this, WGPL in TDA now can take Heavy Weapons and attach to Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, or Long Fangs!

-SW Venerable Dread gives re-roll 1s to hit/1s to wound to nearby Infantry... best single force-multiplier unit in 10th edition so far!

 

----

Overall, I think the positives outweigh the negatives, but there are some real negatives here, so mixed bag, all things considered.

 

Definitely not "unplayable" as some are calling it!

Edited June 12, 2023 by L30n1d4s

[TiguriusX]

Gravis captain with wolf tail enhancement is immune to damage 1 and 2 weapons unless it gets FAQed

[Bulwyf]

59 minutes ago, Wispy said:

I know i have mixed it up with you in the past, Bulwyf, but the fact that you're still here edition after edition with the same fiery, apocalyptic rhetoric every time has become refreshing to me.

 

I am glad you enjoy my posts. I will always stand up for the armies that need it. Not going to apologize for that.

[Kalamadea]

This is really dissapointing, I've been out of the main editions for years and figured 10th would be a great time to get back in, but they really gutted everything that I have painted. Built a super competative 7th ed TWC and Wulfen heavy army with extra GH and BC units so I could also do 3rd/4th edition games against an old friend.

 

TWC don't look too terrible, they just aren't great now, but my 15 Wulfen are just awful, frost claws gone, axes gone, thunder hammers essentially gone, and you still can't put them in vehicles. I see Skyclaws, but no Blood Claws Bike Pack, do they even exist anymore? No Wolf Priests at all, let alone Wolf Priest on bike. My Grey Hunters and Blood Claws are all kitted out for 3rd ed loadouts, so too many power fists and no special weapons on the BCs. GH have plasma pistols listed in the profile, but no way to take the plasma pistols, so unless there's a FAQ to add pistols my GH are loaded illegally. Need to decide if it's worth painting extra Firstborn to add to those units to make them legal or just leave them as-is for my 3rd ed games and paint up the huge backlog of Indomitus/Imperium Magazine Primaris kits as SW. But at that point you're just playing with normal space marines painted grey.

I'm a lot less excited about 10th than I was a couple weeks ago

[Wraithwing]

4 hours ago, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

No we haven't it just looks different because all the Bolt rifle variations got merged together. Now it is a primaris Lt with Master-crafted Bolt rifle and Master-crafted Power weapon. All it loses is assault and a pip of AP.

Well the detachment clearly states what we cannot take and tge biologis is not listed so either a whoops from gw or we get access

All it loses are the rules that made it unique…

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, TiguriusX said:

Gravis captain with wolf tail enhancement is immune to damage 1 and 2 weapons unless it gets FAQed

 

Lucky I just finished this guy then. 

 

[Wispy]

53 minutes ago, Bulwyf said:

 

I am glad you enjoy my posts. I will always stand up for the armies that need it. Not going to apologize for that.

I wouldn't have it any other way

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

2 hours ago, Wraithwing said:

All it loses are the rules that made it unique…

Sure but calling it unplayable from the box is simply false. And loss of assault on the gun really doesn't ruin the unit. Certainly not the most egregious thing in the index

[Lionsbane]

I've changed my mind on TWC. They are okay. But mostly because characters that join them are part of the unit, and therefore get the +1 damage when they charge. Mix in Harald and a WGBL, that is a lot of 2damage wolves doing mortal wounds on 6s. I still think it works better in a Gladius Detachment. Better Strats, and you have a Detachment rule, unlike Champions of Russ. 

[Wraithwing]

Having slept on it, I’ve cooled down somewhat now. 
 

I think the Wulfen changes are horrendous, but I’m hoping for an early fix on them. 
 

Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen a restriction on having multiple Wolf Lord’s/Captains in a list? 
 

So I’m thinking about leaning heavily into herohammer and having Ragnar lead my Bladeguard, and Harald lead my TWC, with Battle Leaders in each. 
 

Tell you what though, I won’t be buying the physical cards! 

[Karhedron]

5 minutes ago, Wraithwing said:

Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen a restriction on having multiple Wolf Lord’s/Captains in a list? 
 

So I’m thinking about leaning heavily into herohammer and having Ragnar lead my Bladeguard, and Harald lead my TWC, with Battle Leaders in each. 

 

I think you are right. The only thing capping it is the rule of 3 when it comes to datasheets. If you want to justify it, your battle is part of a much larger front featuring multiple Great Companies. The respective Wolf Lords have naturally rushed to the point whjere the fighting is fiercest in at attempt to tip the balance.

 

Herohammer is definitely going to be a thing in 10th.

 

5 minutes ago, Wraithwing said:

Tell you what though, I won’t be buying the physical cards! 

 

Preach brother!

[Fael'Tearmunn]

Quite disappointed overall, not gonna lie. Still trying to think about how I can still make a flavorful list and win a game.

 

Question for you folks: how do we bust tanks open now? Now that S10 is gone on both Wulfens and TWCs, how do you guys plan on killing tanks without going full vanilla units?