Black Templars Index

[SkimaskMohawk]

I've had two more games in the past few days.

 

I tweaked more of my list to get away from counts as as much as possible, though it did change between games as I had a couple of days to reflect and wanted to try out some new stuff

 

List 1

Spoiler

Righteous Crusaders 

 

 -primaris tech marine with witchseekers

 

-phobos Lt

 

-5x intercessors with grenade launcher, powerfist

-5x intercessors with grenade launcher, powerfist

 

-5x scout snipers 

-5x scout snipers

 

-5x reivers with knives, grapnel and chutes

 

-6x eradicators with 2 multimeltas

 

 

-redemptor  with plasma, storm bolter, Icarus, onslaught

-redemptor with plasma, storm bolter, Icarus, onslaught

 

-black templar repulsor executioner with laser destroyer, icarus, multi melta

-black templar repulsor executioner with laser destroyer, icarus, multi melta

 

 -black templar repulsor with HOG, multimelta and twin las

 

-vindicare

 

List 2

Spoiler

Righteous Crusaders 

 

 -primaris tech marine with witchseekers

 

-phobos Lt with tannhausers

 

-5x intercessors with grenade launcher, powerfist

-5x intercessors with grenade launcher, powerfist

 

-5x scout snipers 

-5x scout snipers

 

-5x reivers with knives, grapnel and chutes

 

-6x eradicators with 2 multimeltas

 

-redemptor  with plasma, storm bolter, Icarus, onslaught

-redemptor with plasma, storm bolter, Icarus, onslaught

 

-black templar repulsor executioner with laser destroyer, icarus, multi melta

-black templar repulsor executioner with laser destroyer, icarus, multi melta

 

 -black templar repulsor with HOG, multimelta and twin las

 

-3x eliminators with las

-3x eliminators with las

 

First game was against guard on hammer and anvil, the primary that takes away the center, minefields, and fixed objectives.

 

His list (with probable errors):

 

Spoiler

Lord solar

 

Primaris psyker 

 

Tech priest

 

Command squad with death mask

 

Ogryn bodyguard

 

Tank commander with Demolisher and plasma cannons

 

2x 20 Kriegers

 

Hellhound

 

2x 2 scout sentinels

 

Exterminator? (Autocannon Russ) with plasma cannons

 

LRBT with plasma cannons

 

Wyvern 

 

2x basilisk

 

Manticore 

 

10 scions with plasma and volley

 

 

 

 

Idk what happened, but i had some sort of mental fog going on (maybe due to having 0 coffees instead of my average 3); I forgot redemptors had -1 damage, forgot to use AoC when I had planned, didn't check cover, believing guard sponson plasma was 3 damage, and spectacularly let my opponent take my backfield and put my reivers somewhere else after leaving the scions for them specifically. I basically forfeited the game with that move lol. 

 

The good news is that my list actually functions into a pretty serious amount of shooting. If i had played the reivers and dreadnought AoC properly i would have closed out turn 2 only having lost the scouts, an executioner, and the primaris tech marine; he had the blobs with characters and artillery tanks left, and that was with going second. But the screw up on the objective meant I couldn't ride out the secondaries to win (engage and bring it down).

 

The second game was against chaos marines.

 

His list (will definitely get some stuff wrong here too):

Spoiler

Abaddon

 

Khorne master of executions

 

Warpsmith 

 

Changeling 

 

Land Raider with combo bolter and havoc launchers

 

2x Vindicators with combo bolters

 

Rhino

 

Khorne Chosen with fists and lightning claws where available 

 

2x 10 accursed cultists 

 

10 cultists 

 

5x warptalons 

 

Forgefiend with plasma cannons

 

I think everything that wasn't khorne was undivided.

 

We played servo skulls on spearhead, with sticky objectives in effect for everything. Like usual I went fixed for engage and bring it down; he opted to go tactical since he had the actual cards.

 

I went second again, but he was only able to kill 5 eliminators and do 3 wounds to a redemptor on his turn 1, and get the middle objective with some accursed cultists. In return i killed both Vindicators, rhino, and the accursed cultists on the middle objective, and the last eliminator stuck that objective for me. We played it out to the top of his turn 3 where he managed to score a total of 10 points in tactical objectives and 4 points in primary and called it there as a win for me.

 

Edit: for clarities sake I was at 18vp at the end of turn 2, and was set to get another 10 in turn 3. 

 

So the takeaways from those games:

 

You need a list built to handle tactical, and even then weigh it against the secondaries you can score from your opponent.

 

Eliminators can potentially be a huge pain; idk they got gunned down, but they also absorbed the fire power to leave the vehicles ready to blast, and still scored me an objective. Don't think the bolt rifle ones are as useful as scout snipers are just better.

 

I really like the reiver and Lt combo, my one opponent is convinced it'll get FAQd. I'm not sure, but if it does I'll drop reivers.

 

Triple lancer might be better than triple executioner in terms of not needing oath to kill key targets. 12 wounds at t10 is a bit vulnerable, but it's also a 255 point saving. I do know the multi melta has repeatedly came in clutch to finish off stuff, or split fire other targets in range if the laser is shooting far downfield.

Edited June 28, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[9x19 Parabellum]

So..it's not clear to me...did you lose game 2 against the Chaos Marines??

[SkimaskMohawk]

20 minutes ago, 9x19 Parabellum said:

So..it's not clear to me...did you lose game 2 against the Chaos Marines??

Woops my bad, no I won game 2. I was up by 12 points and he would have had warptalons fighting intercessors and the warpsmith left by the end of my turn 3. He basically got out vehicled.

[Sea Creature]

I like both lists… heavy ranged firepower is a must now. While I love Terminators I am not feeling their value, as we have access to some excellent melee units at much less cost. Forgive me for asking but what do you like about the Reiver - Phobos Lt combo?

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Sea Creature said:

I like both lists… heavy ranged firepower is a must now. While I love Terminators I am not feeling their value, as we have access to some excellent melee units at much less cost. Forgive me for asking but what do you like about the Reiver - Phobos Lt combo?

 

Um it was originally there to give an option to tie up desolators or d cannons, but i havent played against those yet. In the games i used them, I really appreciated their ability to counter other deepstrikers, and they also help with engage. 

[9x19 Parabellum]

I lost 57-63 tonight against thousand sons playing an all-infantry spam army.

 

Takeways:

-you need a Captain/Marshal to get some zero-cost stratagems. CP are just too rare a resource, and you need to have those CP when you need to mitigate damage (Armor of Contempt), or spike damage somehow (Fervent Acclimation).

-With the changes to how cover works, and losing their 2+ armor save, Bladeguard Veterans are going on the shelf.

-I don't think an all-infantry blacktide force can work against the top armies in this new 10th edition that's shaping up.  You will probably do ok against lower rated armies, but against Thousand Sons and others like Aeledari, Necrons, other space marines, you're going to need vehicles.

Edited June 30, 2023 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Medjugorje]

its the same experience i have made already... My vehilcles always worked very well. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I'm alright with that. The Black Tide was never a narrative build for Templars. It was a fan build, and a very popular one at that, but the narrative builds were always drop pod assault and armoured fist.

[Sir Clausel]

I like that tanks are better this edition. I love infantry more but every game of 40k needs some tanks if you asked me.

Happy that id magnetized my 2 gladiators!

[Kastor Krieg]

I took two full Primaris Crusader Squads, they got Grimaldus and a Primaris Chap, and an outflanking five of Hellblasters. Nice and round 1000 pts.

I advanced and Devout Pushed up the board, scored two objectives along the way. The Chap squad got targeted by everything on the board focusing on it, but about 1/3 of it made it to combat and tangled up a serious threat shooting unit (Kataphrons with Anti-Infantry). The Grimaldus squad pushed past midboard, Hellblasters came on the flank and destroyed another set of Kataphrons. Grim's PCC made it impossible for enemy's T3 infantry to score (I'd overwatch them with all the pistols, two pyreblasters, etc), so the opponent called it and I won on points already scored.

Black Tide not a narrative style? Pfah, should've seen the fear of the Emperor in my opponent's eyes. He was literally "WHY DO THEY KEEP GETTING CLOSER?!" 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Kastor Krieg

[Marshal Reinhard]

Getting closer is the Templar narrative style

[Kastor Krieg]

7 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Getting closer is the Templar narrative style

+ THIS. +

[Sea Creature]

Played my first game today… wow I feel like we are even stronger now.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

16 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Getting closer is the Templar narrative style

Which is kinda why just walking in was always a teensy bit off.

[Kastor Krieg]

14 hours ago, Sea Creature said:

Played my first game today… wow I feel like we are even stronger now.

Because we are. Space Marines are great and BT are even better.

Recent YT vids about grading 40k armies have firmly put as at A-Tier.

[Medjugorje]

but not because of our own detachment - but because of the gladius detachment. We dont need the extra bonus from the vows - but advance and charge (especially with flat +6") is really strong. All competitive players ranking all the Marines into high tier because of gladius strike force. SW would be even very bad without this detachment.

 

I think our detachment is okay but far from being top tier. 

[Kastor Krieg]

16 minutes ago, Medjugorje said:

I think our detachment is okay but far from being top tier. 

It's also our detachment, not only Gladius, getting ranked as A-Tier. We can be as tanky as Death Guard is supposed to be with Uphold and stabbier than all other armies with a full PCS of ~90-100 chainsword attacks with possible SUSTAINED HITS on them and Oath of the Moment. The damage output we have in melee is insane.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Kastor Krieg

[SkimaskMohawk]

Many of the competitive influencers/tournament circuit people tend to rate marines very highly, though after the S tiers of eldar and knights (maybe one or two others). Oaths is just extremely potent; bring able to layer on + to hit/wound for shooting is a nice cherry on top. The high end vehicles basically only die efficiently to eldar and knights, desolators are supremely undercosted as it is, and some stuff like the lancer is also very...encouraged.

 

Templars can reinforce a durable skew list with the FNP, or tech into whatever with gladius at the cost of some of the melee combo output. Marines and templars definitely aren't at the very top, but they definitely stand above the majority. If your list doesn't lean on desolators or other super undercosted units then I'd expect to be a very good spot after the first balance pass. 

[Gederas]

Yeah, I just did a 1k match against someone's Orks at my FLGS.

 

Oaths is SUPER strong, to the point where even though I got an early lead, it was such a severe lead that I kind of... Lost enthusiasm (also doesn't help I'm quite empathic and my opponent was not having a good time there).

 

PCS are super powerful, especially if you go in on them in low point games.

[Sea Creature]

My game was 1k as well and I was running a 20 man PCS with Grimaldus attached and four powerfists… they won they game and were just brutal. I prefer our detachment rules with UtEH.

[Emperor Ming]

11 minutes ago, Sea Creature said:

My game was 1k as well and I was running a 20 man PCS with Grimaldus attached and four powerfists… they won they game and were just brutal. I prefer our detachment rules with UtEH.

Shame about loosing scout thou, I was expecting them to faq that, bit of a pointless rule, unless they expect players not to join characters to PCS....

[Gederas]

35 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Shame about loosing scout thou, I was expecting them to faq that, bit of a pointless rule, unless they expect players not to join characters to PCS....

Wait, they lost scout? Crap, the 20 man PCS that was by it's lonesome wasn't supposed to be able to Scout? Oops....

[9x19 Parabellum]

Absolutely demolished Tyranids today 82-23.  Didn't even feel like we were playing the same game.  Felt bad for my opponent.

[Kastor Krieg]

1 hour ago, Gederas said:

Wait, they lost scout? Crap, the 20 man PCS that was by it's lonesome wasn't supposed to be able to Scout? Oops....

No, PCS has Scout 6". But it doesn't work if you join a character that doesn't innately have it (we have none that can join a PCS).

[Rustican]

12 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

No, PCS has Scout 6". But it doesn't work if you join a character that doesn't innately have it (we have none that can join a PCS).

I think it would make sense if they gave the Emperor's Champion scout. Thematically he's driven to go out and hunt down enemy bosses and wants to get there as fast as possible.