Medjugorje Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 dont forget that its just an index. In my opinion there are many flaws but in general our ruleset is okayish. funny thing is that most other factions use their leaders to give buffs to their units.... we use sword brethren to buff our leaders^^ emperors champion with 10 dmg2 or 6 dmg4 attacks / Helbrecht with 6 dmg4 attacks or 12 dmg2 attacks. The main thing how strong we are ist how good our transports will be. Without invul our 3+ infantry is too weak, Only one squad with advance + charge (just if we skip 5+++ for that unit) could be a problem. I hope Impulsors, Rhinos, razorbacks and LRC will be cheap enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperors Champion22 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, Medjugorje said: dont forget that its just an index. In my opinion there are many flaws but in general our ruleset is okayish. funny thing is that most other factions use their leaders to give buffs to their units.... we use sword brethren to buff our leaders^^ emperors champion with 10 dmg2 or 6 dmg4 attacks / Helbrecht with 6 dmg4 attacks or 12 dmg2 attacks. The main thing how strong we are ist how good our transports will be. Without invul our 3+ infantry is too weak, Only one squad with advance + charge (just if we skip 5+++ for that unit) could be a problem. I hope Impulsors, Rhinos, razorbacks and LRC will be cheap enough. I'm right there with you, the helbrecht and emperors champion with sword brethren is gonna be sick! My ideal list would be somewhere around Helbrecht+5 Sword Brethren in an Impulsor Emperors Champion+5 Sword Brethren in an Impulsor Grimaldus+20 man Primaris Crusader Squad 2 Gladiator Lancers Primaris Chaplain with Sigismunds Seal +10 Assault Intercessors or 20 Primaris Crusader Squad depending on how many points I have 5 man Intercessor Squad to sticky objective our backline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Medjugorje said: dont forget that its just an index. In my opinion there are many flaws but in general our ruleset is okayish. funny thing is that most other factions use their leaders to give buffs to their units.... we use sword brethren to buff our leaders^^ emperors champion with 10 dmg2 or 6 dmg4 attacks / Helbrecht with 6 dmg4 attacks or 12 dmg2 attacks. The main thing how strong we are ist how good our transports will be. Without invul our 3+ infantry is too weak, Only one squad with advance + charge (just if we skip 5+++ for that unit) could be a problem. I hope Impulsors, Rhinos, razorbacks and LRC will be cheap enough. Rhino can't transport primaris, so very possible no worthy melee units could be delivered forward by it. But drop pod can… Heir of Sigismund and Lork 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 14 hours ago, ChargingSoll said: Hey Rejoice, we somehow kept the thunder hammer for brethren At 4+, 3 attacks, losing any semblance of prior anti-vehicle capability. Meh. I'd much more likely use the TH stat line to represent the missing double lightning claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilamandaros Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 9 hours ago, jaxom said: Templar Relics applies only to Grimaldus, but the feature he chooses (Banner of Fallen Crusaders, Remnant of the Fallen Temple, Sceptre of Anointing) applies to the unit as per Sersi's rules quote. Effectively what it means is that if he gets merc'ed due to Precision then Templar Relics goes with him and the unit loses the effect he was creating from his choice. Whereas if the Cenobytes die, the effect still lasts until the start of the next Command Phase. And with precision attacks, could you elect to have them full on the cenobytes first since they are part of his 'leader unit'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Carpenter Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 16 hours ago, Sete said: I'm a bit annoyed at the lack of flexibility on the primaris crusader squad. Would like to replace the PF for a PW in an initiate. That's my personal irk as well. I love the flexibility of the FB crusader squad and can't understand why the primaris ones can't have it as well. Kheotour 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) I think the Black Templar rules are excellent and thematic. The characters are really fun, as are the units. There is potential for Heresy if so inclined - If you run the Gladius you could take Librarians and double up on the various Primaris tanks. Could give those Sword Brethren an invul if you could suffer the witch to live? lol They don't really need it however - they seem to be a super offensive and focused unit. If you put Helbrecht in a squad you can use their rule to give him extra damage with his sweep attack. Lots of str 6, ap-3, damage 2 attacks to cut through models. Edited June 13, 2023 by Orange Knight Sea Creature, painting.for.my.sanity and Lork 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ikka Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Am I reading right that on a Primaris Crusader squad, if you replace the Initiates' bolt rifles with a heavy bolt pistol and astartes chainsword, you still keep the regular bolt pistol they are equipped with? So they will have two pistol shots at 18"/in melee? painting.for.my.sanity 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clausel Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Im reading it the same way. Gotta admit im really disappointed with the amount of mistakes in these indexes! Looks like there is a massive erreta coming hopefully soon after release. Or just update them. My god its awful with all those mistakes. Kheotour and Emperor Ming 1 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said: Am I reading right that on a Primaris Crusader squad, if you replace the Initiates' bolt rifles with a heavy bolt pistol and astartes chainsword, you still keep the regular bolt pistol they are equipped with? So they will have two pistol shots at 18"/in melee? Seems that way! Probably wise not to model them duel wielding just yet though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sir Clausel said: Im reading it the same way. Gotta admit im really disappointed with the amount of mistakes in these indexes! Looks like there is a massive erreta coming hopefully soon after release. Or just update them. My god its awful with all those mistakes. Agreed. It seems quite messy and haphazard. If there's a positive to it I guess its that nothing's printed so updating the indexes should be possible, the first printed version we get would be the codex later down the line (or did I get that wrong somewhere?) EDIT: Nvm I'm dumb, these are supposed to be the cards that we have until the codex, so there was a pretty big incentive to get them right in the first place, as updating the cards would lead to the potentially very confusing situation of having multiple versions of them out in the wild. Edited June 13, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard Emperor Ming and Mike8404 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clausel Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Well the datacards they will be selling soon is probably just like these. I was thinking of buying them but for now Ill wait and print if they update all these dumb mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperors Champion22 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Orange Knight said: I think the Black Templar rules are excellent and thematic. The characters are really fun, as are the units. There is potential for Heresy if so inclined - If you run the Gladius you could take Librarians and double up on the various Primaris tanks. Could give those Sword Brethren an invul if you could suffer the witch to live? lol They don't really need it however - they seem to be a super offensive and focused unit. If you put Helbrecht in a squad you can use their rule to give him extra damage with his sweep attack. Lots of str 6, ap-3, damage 2 attacks to cut through models. Str 7, he gives himself and his unit +1 str and exploding 5’s Orange Knight 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 2 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said: Str 7, he gives himself and his unit +1 str and exploding 5’s The critical hits on 5s don't do anything unless its combined with another rule like lethal hits right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperors Champion22 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 37 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said: The critical hits on 5s don't do anything unless its combined with another rule like lethal hits right? Yeah but we have vows for lethal hits and sustained hits. And we have a strat to give the effects of one vow to a unit so you can wombo combo with him. Sea Creature 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 3 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said: Yeah but we have vows for lethal hits and sustained hits. And we have a strat to give the effects of one vow to a unit so you can wombo combo with him. Taking Uphold as default then spend CP to active Suffer not/Accept would be common choices. Medjugorje 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperors Champion22 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Tokugawa said: Taking Uphold as default then spend CP to active Suffer not/Accept would be common choices. im gonna go for accept any challenge because sustained hits are so busted. i dont think that the extra leadership will be that necessary and the 6+ Feel No Pain doesn't seem as worth it as the extra damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 6 hours ago, Tokugawa said: Taking Uphold as default then spend CP to active Suffer not/Accept would be common choices. You definitely have flexibility with acclamation, the real questions are what strats and enhancements do you want to fully activate, and how punished are some builds going to be? If it ends up being a vehicle meta because every army has far fewer tools to deal with them, then ya it's going to be Uphold to get even more value. But if everyone over techs into anti tank, then you could probably go black tide, where your get more value out of Accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 7 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said: im gonna go for accept any challenge because sustained hits are so busted. i dont think that the extra leadership will be that necessary and the 6+ Feel No Pain doesn't seem as worth it as the extra damage. I think you will underestimate the effects of morale in this edition. to have 5+ is huge. Sea Creature and Kastor Krieg 1 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 It depends on what list build comes out. If it's MSU tanks and dreads then them getting battle shocked is kinda whatever (unless it procs other stuff like nids). If it's a couple of death stars, then the characters like helbrecht, grimaldus, and chaplains all offer 5+ ld. Battleshock is mostly to disable combos and prevent scoring, but the Templar combo units are mostly going to be either 5+ already or not rely on strats for the combo. The main scoring units are sticky, so they won't lose out from getting battleshocked; the ones pushing up to fight over contested objectives will be 5+ from the characters. And even then, it's only an 11% difference going from 83% to 72% for anything at ld 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Creature Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Tbones Judicar leading Sword Bros is going to be so hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 16 hours ago, Sea Creature said: icar leading Sword Bros is going to be so hot! Is it? s5 is nice, but its hardly going to make decent enemy units quake in their boots, even ogryns are T6 now On other note, seems very strange that you loose the scout on the Pcrusaders if u put characters with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike8404 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 hours ago, Emperor Ming said: Is it? s5 is nice, but its hardly going to make decent enemy units quake in their boots, even ogryns are T6 now On other note, seems very strange that you loose the scout on the Pcrusaders if u put characters with them Fights first is a strong ability this edition. Being able to hand it out to an entire bodyguard unit is very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Creature Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) "On other note, seems very strange that you loose the scout on the Pcrusaders if u put characters with them…" Apparently so. Edited June 17, 2023 by Sea Creature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Some units have 'Scouts x"' listed in their abilities. If every model in a unit has this ability, then at the start of the first battle round, before the first turn begins, it can make a Normal move of up to x" as if it were your Movement phase -as can any DEDICATED TRANSPORT model such a unit starts the battle embarked within (provided only models with this ability are embarked within that DEDICATED TRANSPORT model). Emperor Ming 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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