Black Templars Index

[ChargingSoll]

1 minute ago, Shield-Captain said:

Are sword brethren no longer allowed to take lightning claws? I don’t see it as an option on the card.

Only firstborn sergeants and leaders get lightning claws along with Terminators. Even vanguard vets lost em. 

[Kastor Krieg]

Just now, ChargingSoll said:

Only firstborn sergeants and leaders get lightning claws along with Terminators. Even vanguard vets lost em. 

yeah, it's a sad state of affairs :(

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Mmm so i guess these are just in addition to the entire SM index then. The repeated vehicles are just to allow them to load up on the multimelta.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

1 minute ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Mmm so i guess these are just in addition to the entire SM index then. The repeated vehicles are just to allow them to load up on the multimelta.

Yeah, like how we have to use the primaris captain datasheet to play the Indomitus captain.

[ChargingSoll]

3 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

yeah, it's a sad state of affairs :(

 

Hey Rejoice, we somehow kept the thunder hammer for brethren

[Medicinal Carrots]

3 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Mmm so i guess these are just in addition to the entire SM index then. The repeated vehicles are just to allow them to load up on the multimelta.

Yep, and in a Gladius, they can take up to 6 of each as long as they forgo multimeltas on 3 of them

[Marshal Reinhard]

does mean the added multimelta only applies to these vehicles (and ones that already have the option)

 

[ChargingSoll]

1 minute ago, Medicinal Carrots said:

Yep, and in a Gladius, they can take up to 6 of each as long as they forgo multimeltas on 3 of them

Oh god gladius allow both varieties from both indexs. That's gonna get FAQed 

[Sea Creature]

47 minutes ago, ChargingSoll said:

The man's a trainee castellan using the sword brethren stat line and being the only one to get the combi weapon and MC Power weapon, interesting bit is the squad size is max at 11. 

It’s confusing to be sure.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

1 hour ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

 

Just headcanon it that he's the Sergeant?

 

And yes, before some of you say otherwise. Sergeant IS a rank in the Templars, has been since 4th ed.

no. i'd rather go with my solution and put myself at a disadvantage out of spite, in true Imperial fashion. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Mmmmm Napalm

[Marshal Reinhard]

13 minutes ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

no. i'd rather go with my solution and put myself at a disadvantage out of spite, in true Imperial fashion. 

I mean, he's literally indistinguishable from the rest unless you actively give him a combi weapon and or mastercrafted power weapon.

 

So you're just insisting that you be allowed to take 4 in a 5-10 unit. I'm not a rules/strategy buff, but I assume there could probably be some situation somewhere where going with a lower than minium strenght unit is advantageous. (point saving?) But I got no dog in this race ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

EDIT: well I suppose he has an inability to take a regular power weapon, so he's only completely "regular" if he has a chainsword, I guess there's that

Edited June 12, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Sersi]

2 hours ago, ChargingSoll said:

Why do Neophytes get 5 attacks with a chainsword base. 

 

A max crusader squad of 20 would have 98 attacks base if everyone got chainswords with the sword brethren only getting 3 attacks with the power weapon. 

 

AND THEY GET SCOUT 6" rerolling charges and advances.

 

Fear the black tide, fear the eternal crusade

 

Edit - for the primaris crusader squad

With 4 Power Fists! Ouchies.

[Marshal Mittens]

Black Templars have two sources for 5+++, and can army wide 6+++, poor deathguard.

[9x19 Parabellum]

FYI, you can't scout the Land Raiders (Crusader or otherwise) as they do not have the Dedicated Transport keyword.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

36 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

I mean, he's literally indistinguishable from the rest unless you actively give him a combi weapon and or mastercrafted power weapon.

 

So you're just insisting that you be allowed to take 4 in a 5-10 unit. I'm not a rules/strategy buff, but I assume there could probably be some situation somewhere where going with a lower than minium strenght unit is advantageous. (point saving?) But I got no dog in this race ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

EDIT: well I suppose he has an inability to take a regular power weapon, so he's only completely "regular" if he has a chainsword, I guess there's that

nah i've got enough spare SB bodies lying round so i'll run them as 5 man squads.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Mmmmm Napalm

[Sir Clausel]

I really like what im seeing :) points will ofcourse decide how good we are but i feel we have some nice flavour and we will feel like crusaders. Cant wait to play them for the first time in 10th!

[SkimaskMohawk]

So a black tide can get a pretty solid FNP coverage with Grimaldus leading one unit of PCS, a captain leading another and just doubling up on acclamation if you do a third. Less upfront mitigation than armour of contempt, but it lasts for the entire turn instead of against one units attack.

 

The general PCS output is huge too if you take the LT/castellan and captain/marshal and use Accept, Seal, and Crusaders Wrath. 100 chainsword attacks turn into 33 auto wounds plus 16.83 vs t8+, 32.67 vs t5-7 and 49.5 vs t4. That's an average of 25, 32.8, and 41.3 failed 2+ armour saves at those respective toughness bands. Not counting the attached characters. Anything with less armour or toughness is absolutely going to get shredded. Only real question is how many points it's going to be, as the CP commitment is...1 for the enhancement.

 

Grimaldus' unit using Accept and Crusaders Wrath (and assuming you used the advance and charge relic) does 9, 17.4, and 26.4 to those same bands. 

 

Helbrechts unit (no Lt/castellan) using Accept and Wrath does 8.4 to t10+, 16.3 to t6-9, 24.7 to t5, and 32.7 to t4 and lower. If/when the Lt/castellan is allowed to join the numbers jump to 24.9, 49.2, 66, and 81.8 to those bands.

 

Again, all these saves are against a base 2+, so they'll absolutely mangle any average durability vehicle/infantry. And without the characters swinging.

 

What else that's kinda uniquely templar or kinda combo-y? Standard CS in rhinos with double ranged weapons. Foot ASM double dipping on vows and doctrines? Dreads/vehicles/durable units getting a 6+FNP. Quality attack units with sustained/lethal hits? Even primaris sword bros giving an attached characters sweep (helbrecht/EC) +1 damage.

 

Edit: ignore my math above i done goofed on parts of it.

 

M+C combo is 22.1/38.3/49.5 against the 2+ armour  base toughness bands.

 

Grimaldus is the same.

 

Helbrecht solo is the same.

 

Helbrecht combo is 22.1/27.4/33/38.3 against 2+ armour base and his expanded toughness bands.

 

Still insanely good and requires a very high toughness and either a 3++ or a 2+ and 5+ FNP  to avoid getting one-rounded.

Edited June 13, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[jaxom]

6 hours ago, Kilamandaros said:

Do Grimaldus's relic buffs apply to just him or the whole unit he's attached to?

 

Only reason I ask is because it says: . Until the start of your next Command phase, this unit’s Chaplain Grimaldus model has that ability.

 

6 hours ago, Sersi said:

It would apply to the attached unit, since he has the Leader keyword.  

 

Templar Relics applies only to Grimaldus, but the feature he chooses (Banner of Fallen Crusaders, Remnant of the Fallen Temple, Sceptre of Anointing) applies to the unit as per Sersi's rules quote. Effectively what it means is that if he gets merc'ed due to Precision then Templar Relics goes with him and the unit loses the effect he was creating from his choice. Whereas if the Cenobytes die, the effect still lasts until the start of the next Command Phase. 

[Sea Creature]

It applies to the unit, of which he is a part.

[Tokugawa]

Very unsatisfied with EC rules. Every other single previewed "duelist champion" unit has "0cp intervention" abilities, and EC had counter charge movement related abilities for ~20 years, and EC lose it now?

 

Helbrecht looks like a dumb Khorne fighter, lacks CP-related abilities which other marine senior officers have. And he is not [chapter master](why? how? I wish it's a bug and not intended) so can't be attached by other characters.

[Emperor Ming]

That guy even has more wounds than Helbrecht

 

Promote him to CM

 

He might even get the right keyword

[Arkangilos]

26 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

, lacks CP-related abilities which other marine senior officers have.

BA characters don't have them either.

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Very unsatisfied with EC rules. Every other single previewed "duelist champion" unit has "0cp intervention" abilities, and EC had counter charge movement related abilities for ~20 years, and EC lose it now?

 

Helbrecht looks like a dumb Khorne fighter, lacks CP-related abilities which other marine senior officers have. And he is not [chapter master](why? how? I wish it's a bug and not intended) so can't be attached by other characters.

 

I mean, the EC kills characters  (and chaf) way harder than the Custodes duellist, ignoring any detachment  rules. More attacks, more str, more damage; he wounds every character  up to t8 on 2s. And that's a whole different faction.

 

You compare him to the generic marine champions and the primaris one averages 5.6 damage to a meq profile; the command champion does 2.3, while the EC does 10.3. And his choice of vow pushes that further.

 

The EC is an incredible duelist, but he's basically using the unit for any buffs they have instead of buffing the unit like these other champions. You stick him with assault intercessors for rerolls to wound, or sword bros to juice his damage output for 2 damage sweep or 4 damage strikes. 

 

It's also worth pointing out that the free Heroic Intervention bait is a very....obvious. They need to set up a bait unit that absolutely demands to be charged, with the HI unit close enough to not get hosed on their own charge range but out of range to be the actual target. And then you want the charging to not target your HI unit, as they still don't get the charge bonus themselves. Like idk, the Custode gets the run and charge which is great, but (points depending) I'd take the EC as a character killer over any of them. 

 

*Just comparing the blade champions duel and sweep. Depending on stances, the blade champion averages 4.8 damage with Lethal hits behemor against t5-4 3+, and 6.4/5.3/4.2/3.2 unsaved with lethal hits hurricanes against no armour down to 3+ base (t4-3, orks are their own thing). The EC strike with Accept (the heaviest combo vow for the army) pushes 12.3 damage onto a t7 and lower 3+ character; the sweep does 6.6 wounds to t5-t4 and 8.3 to t3 and under, and will do those numbers to anything with a 5+ base, Marine statlines taking 4.3. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[Sea Creature]

9 hours ago, Odd-ad said:

I think it's only one of each epic hero, so you can have Helbrecht and Grimaldus, but not two Helbrechts

Thanks for the clarification.

[KnightofSigismund]

I’m going to be running black tide and gladiators, now with units of sword brethren. Only difference from my 9th list is sword brethren. I’m exceptionally pleased with everything we got.