Wh40k 10th Edition Munitorum Field Manual (Points)

[Halandaar]

Wargear being free is fine if all the options are balanced against each other (and I feel like a lot of the stuff like consolidating Vanguard Power Weapons into the same profile was exactly to enable the removal of the differing costs), but while we continue to have stuff like Heavy Bolters being wildly different in power terms than Lascannons, they cannot cost the same. 

 

Obviously I can't speak for everyone - but I'm going to try to anyway. When we said we wanted less stuff to remember/keep track of, this is not what we meant. I sincerely hope it's a temporary solution for the indexes because even as a purely casual player who won't abuse this system to the extreme, I can still see why it is a massive problem. It works in AoS because the game is designed around these features. 40K has too much historical baggage and expectation for them to price a Flamer equivalently to a Meltagun.

[Castellan Wulfrik]

Rich from the Studio says: “Unit sizes are now much easier to manage. Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box, so you won’t need to agonise over how to include all of the models you’ve bought.”

 

*Looks at Sword Brethren being 5 or 11 with a 5 man box* Okay, thanks Rich, I would’ve had no idea how to count to ten if you weren’t there to count to 11 for me. The circus continues. Special shout out for the base 5 man proteus kill team being 65 points more expensive than veterans, top stuff as always. 

[Brother Nathan]

Having not played anything but nids for a long time... are certain weapon comparisons still as valid? The fact that meltaguns now wound most tanks with their single shot on 5s may go a fair way to reducing its effectiveness... compared especially against auto hitting flamershaving multiple chances to wound and being more effective against  chaff with more easy access to timely overwatch. From my brief looks and i may be wrong but a bunch of the lesser seen weapons seem to have other gains and improvements. Lascannons do look in a great spot but i think im more likely to try the auttocannons i got from forgeworld on my havocs than before.  

Iv more issue with the squad size tightness meaning fidgeting my last 20 points will be diffcult but sure list building jenga is part of the fun. 

[crimsondave]

I’m gonna say something I don’t think I’ve ever said before.  I feel bad for you competitive players.  :)

[Vazzy]

Gonna go against the grain here and say I don’t really hate this for a variety of reason. 
 

One, as someone coming back to 40k after a long heresy hiatus, and as someone who is now an adult with a real job and responsibilities, being able to build how I want for list purposes is extremely appealing. 
 

Two, common consensus among the groups I was around/used to game with made it pretty clear that most units had optimal builds and that was what everyone was using. 
 

Will it pan out for GW? Hard to say. I’m excited not to have to balance stats versus points vs fluff like I used to. 

[Maritn]

To those who think free equipment is bad in general: What should a meltagun or a plasma gun cost more than a flamer on a Tactical Space Marine or a Guardsman? Do you think this difference would add meaningful decisions during list building? Do you think this difference would add meaningful decisions during the game? Do you think this difference would significantly improve the game balance? Honest questions, I'd really like to hear your opinions.

[happyslugger]

Not going to lie, this looks simple to me and I am happy to give it a go.

 

I have just put together 2k death guard vs 2k BA and will play a game (against myself) this weekend and test it out.  

 

 

[Rain]

1 minute ago, happyslugger said:

Not going to lie, this looks simple to me and I am happy to give it a go.

 

I have just put together 2k death guard vs 2k BA and will play a game (against myself) this weekend and test it out.  

 

 

 

Good luck, I hope you win!

[Interrogator Stobz]

5 minutes ago, Vazzy said:

Gonna go against the grain here and say I don’t really hate this for a variety of reason. 
 

One, as someone coming back to 40k after a long heresy hiatus, and as someone who is now an adult with a real job and responsibilities, being able to build how I want for list purposes is extremely appealing. 
 

Two, common consensus among the groups I was around/used to game with made it pretty clear that most units had optimal builds and that was what everyone was using. 
 

Will it pan out for GW? Hard to say. I’m excited not to have to balance stats versus points vs fluff like I used to. 

I think the rules writers also had a hiatus from the game before they wrote these. 

 

2 minutes ago, happyslugger said:

Not going to lie, this looks simple to me and I am happy to give it a go.

 

I have just put together 2k death guard vs 2k BA and will play a game (against myself) this weekend and test it out.  

 

 

Maybe the playtesters should have played a bit more too, it's obvious they didn't really bother.

[Kastor Krieg]

I think I got it.

They're "diversifying the product". Translating from corporate to human, they're making 40k the "casual beer & pretzels" game and stashing away all the grognards in the Horus Heresy 7ed corner, hoping that the highly competitive scene will follow.

[Doghouse]

1 minute ago, Kastor Krieg said:

I think I got it.

They're "diversifying the product". Translating from corporate to human, they're making 40k the "casual beer & pretzels" game and stashing away all the grognards in the Horus Heresy 7ed corner, hoping that the highly competitive scene will follow.

 

Consider me well and truly stashed.

[FerociousBeast]

8 minutes ago, Vazzy said:

 

Two, common consensus among the groups I was around/used to game with made it pretty clear that most units had optimal builds and that was what everyone was using. 

“Optimal build” did not used to mean most expensive build. Now it usually does. 
 

6 minutes ago, Maritn said:

To those who think free equipment is bad in general: What should a meltagun or a plasma gun cost more than a flamer on a Tactical Space Marine or a Guardsman? Do you think this difference would add meaningful decisions during list building? 

Plasma vs melta vs flamer - maybe not that big a deal. Predator with extra lascannon and HK missile and storm bolter and whatever else vs Predator with just a turret - big deal. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

I have read a lot of people here saying they were looking forward to 10th and to downloading all the indexes so they can play multiple armies on a level playing field for years to come, usually as a response to the cost of the churn.

 

GeeDub obviously listened and decided that they would break that idea up by making everything so bad it's not even worth the time of the downloading process let alone printing datasheets. 

This incoherent mess of a points download really solidifies that.

 

10th Edition: 1 Star, would not recommend. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[appiah4]

What a :cuss:show...

[Dark Legionnare]

18 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

I think I got it.

They're "diversifying the product". Translating from corporate to human, they're making 40k the "casual beer & pretzels" game and stashing away all the grognards in the Horus Heresy 7ed corner, hoping that the highly competitive scene will follow.

As long as they're not putting me back in the closet, I'll stay in the HH corner gladly!

[Lexington]

37 minutes ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

Rich from the Studio says: “Unit sizes are now much easier to manage. Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box, so you won’t need to agonise over how to include all of the models you’ve bought.”

 

Twenty-five-plus years of wargaming, and this has never been a concern of mine in any system, ever.

[Scribe]

If I can take solace from one thing, its that at least at first glance it doesnt seem to be as bad as AoS was on release.

 

Not high praise, but its something.

[Interrogator Stobz]

3 minutes ago, Scribe said:

If I can take solace from one thing, its that at least at first glance it doesnt seem to be as bad as AoS was on release.

 

Not high praise, but its something.

Your optimism is Legendary.

Much like my army 

[Karhedron]

38 minutes ago, Maritn said:

To those who think free equipment is bad in general: What should a meltagun or a plasma gun cost more than a flamer on a Tactical Space Marine or a Guardsman? Do you think this difference would add meaningful decisions during list building? Do you think this difference would add meaningful decisions during the game? Do you think this difference would significantly improve the game balance? Honest questions, I'd really like to hear your opinions.

 

In the past I would have said yes but the game has changed. Having 1 special weapon in a regular infantry squad is not going to make a big difference in an army that has Hellblasters, Eradicators and Infernus squads. Yes, there are some squads that have definite sub-par options like Devastators but I don't think many people took Devastator squads with 4 Heavy bolters anyway. Similarly with Predator sponsons etc, most people too them anyway because it was cheaper than buying another platform for those heavy weapons. People often only took HK missiles to use up extra points but now there is no reason not to take them.

[happyslugger]

44 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

Good luck, I hope you win!

LOL 

 

I think my odds look slightly better than normal...

[brother_b]

25 minutes ago, Scribe said:

If I can take solace from one thing, its that at least at first glance it doesnt seem to be as bad as AoS was on release.

 

Not high praise, but its something.

Yeah but AOS was a first edition :cuss: show. 
 

This is 40k 10th! 
 

Appears too simple right now and my favorite unit kastelan robots can be affected by anti infantry.

 

Test games within the next couple of weeks let’s go!

[Blindhamster]

I’ve been pretty positive about 10th for the most part, but wow the approach to points is bad

[quasistellar]

2 hours ago, Blurf said:

This is gonna be a BAD start to the edition.

Everyone's on powerlevels.

At least Marines (Though potentially other factions, haven't looked as much into them) are heavily undercosted (Devastators are cheaper than retributors despite being like 2x the stats).

Deathguard, Admech, and Sisters of Battle (potentially also Votann) don't look like they'll have the tools to participate in the addition, let alone compete.

Wargear changes means the first 2 months are just going to be swapping loadouts.

Wargear changes also mean Lethality is going to be all over the place. 95pt Eradicators will one shot Land Raiders, but 260pts of Sacresants won't be able to kill a tactical squad in less than 3 turns.

 

 

I don't get the AdMech points or stat lines at all.  I think they are the one faction that's truly and legitimately hosed for 10th.  For GW, once a datasheet is created for an edition, that's it.  Points won't solve AdMech's problems without tipping the scales too far into horde territory.

 

I think at least Death Guard can have some battalion rules or points adjustments, I think.

 

Sisters I don't really have an opinion on since I don't play them.

[Blurf]

8 minutes ago, quasistellar said:

 

  For GW, once a datasheet is created for an edition, that's it. 

Generally not true for Index era.

[BrainFireBob]

I can't believe I have to say this.

 

1) This does zero to change the fact there will still be optimal loadouts. Anyone who thinks this means that optimal loadouts go away, please demonstrate your reasoning. This simply changes what the optimal loadout is. If you were bothered that every squad having a combi weapon, thunder hammer, plasma gun, and gravcannon was unfluffy; well, what part of it being effective was removed by this? Exactly 0 parts. 

 

2) The issue was never the upgrade on a single model, although not all upgrades add equal capability. The issue is the cumulative effect of the microtransactions. At 15 ppm, as it has been at times, a Havoc launcher may not be taken. Having 2 preds and 3 rhinos in a list where they are free- that's 5 Havoc launchers. 75points. That's a significant increase in firepower capability. Used to be, you could take that or a whole other unit. They are making the game less diverse, not more. If you ran flamer/missile launcher tac squads with chainsword Tac sarges and were upset people told you it was the "wrong" option and had a 'feels bad'- stop celebrating, it's still a bad combo and still the "wrong" option. Those who could see what the best option was before are not confused by this change, will not require adaption time.

 

Let me give an example. I ran a melta-heavy list in 4th during the age of plasma. I did fairly well with it. Largely because I had an extra full size Tac squad kitted out and an extra speeder due to the points I saved not investing in assault cannons, lascannons, and plasma guns. The cumulative effect of the points costs yielded more design space for army construction- I could army-wide trade a larger army for a less kitted army.

 

3) Yes, I've been saying since 8th that they were slow-walking power level, starting by making all point costs multiples of 5.

 

4) I concur they're trying to force us into Heresy

 

5) Also concur that someone at GW has a huge need to align 40K to Sigmar. At this point I'm seriously wondering if it's twisted ego defense because they're the fool that killed the Old World and rolled out Sigmar without points. I don't recall firings at that time, and they were absolutely merited.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by BrainFireBob